richard i know what you mean if a stock is to long and youve got a lot of clothes on...hard to get gun to shoulder quickly....guns with short stocks work best for me...you gotta be tough to follow old destrey hes one of the last true blue duck hunters...hes what i call a living legend....charlie

Having lost the equivalent of a small village's weight, Destry is going to be a living legend for a lot longer, I hope

short stocks work the best for me too, 13 5/8 ths in the sweet spot with my hunting guns, EN 10 ga 30 in., trojan 12 ga. 30 in., CHE 12 ga 30 in,trojan 20 ga 28 in. ,VHE 20 ga. 30 in. ,soon to have a str. grip restock for a NH 10 30 in. and 32 in. at 13 5/8 ths. you do have a lot of cloths on when duck hunting so short works for me. in summer i shoot a 14 1/4 gun or use a slip on pad on the short ones. i think most people can adjust to a short lop but would have a hard time to shoot a long lop :)

Probably get flamed for saying this but I believe LOP is the most highly over-rated measurement, especially for guns that are going to be used for hunting. First - shorter LOP's are much easier to mount than long LOP's, and second - as a season progresses and temps drop, layers increase and a gun that may have been a little short for the dove opener is just about perfect for November grouse. Like others who have responded to your question, I use a Galco if I have to add a little LOP (remember to take it off, you never want to leave them when the gun is stored).

One more thing (again, probably fodder for flaming): I believe most of the problems associated with a moderatly short LOP can be overcome with 3-4 boxes of shells and a trip to the skeet field. Focus on getting your cheek on the stock and you'll break birds. It's amazing what you can overcome with a little practice.

The range is open: flame away!

Jay, I think you have a point. I can shoot a gun as long as my thumb knuckle isn't up my nose. LOP isn't a factor of hieght or arm length, but of distance from where the gun is mounted to the cheek bone and there is a lot of flexibility there. On the old Parkers with not untipical DAC of 1&3/4" and DAH of 3", the further back you place your face, the greater the DAC and the harder it is to have a "head down" view of the rib.

My Parker 10 #3 frame is 13 3/4 LOP which for me is a little short by about 1" my biggest ploblem is the drop of the comb compared to my other guns there is about 3/4 more drop.

Steve

I've got a buddy that decided he needed a fitted gun so he drove up to TC and made an appointment with Brian B. He ended up ordering a Spanish gun with a long, straight stock. He shoots pretty well on clay birds with a mounted gun but he can't hit a grouse unless the bird is sitting in a tree. I've watched him and the problem is obvious: he has to push the gun WAY forward before he can shoulder it and as the season progresses the further he has to push the gun away. He always looks like he's climbing on the gun and ends up with a pizz poor mount.

As long as your thumb doesn't pound your nose the stock isn't too short.

One of the great advantages of the Galco pad, especially when shooting clays, is it spreads recoil over a greater area. This sure reduces the felt recoil.

Men today are only slightly taller, but clearly much heavier, with a thicker face, chest, and waist. A thicker chest increases the effective length of pull; a thicker face moves the eye upward from the comb and to the left, away from the rib (for a right handed shooter) increasing the need for 'cast off' to move the eye back in line with the rib.

24 year old Union soldier in 1860 - 5’ 8” and 143.5#

22 year old American soldier in 1955 - 5' 8" and 150.2#

50th percentile for American 25 year old men in 2002 - 5’ 10” and 168#

All US men 20-74 years in 1960 - 5’ 8” and 166.3#

All US men 20-74 years in 2002 - 5’ 9 1/2” and 191#

Yes! Thank you Jay. I also think that arm length is not as important as the vertical distance between where the stock nests into the shoulder and one's eye plane. I personally like the Churchill method where you don't drop your head at all when you mount the gun, but keep it upright instead, following the target all the while. I'm only 5' 4-3/4" these days, having 'shrunk' 1.75" over the years so now fully qualify as an official 'sawed off runt of the litter/Neanderthaloid', but I like guns with 2-3/4" to even 3" of DAH because when I bring them up I don't have to drop my head one bit to have a perfect view right down the rib... I also don't have to try to look through the greasy upper left out-of-focus corner of my glasses as I do when I drop my head way down to the stock of a flat dimension gun. The biggest thing I have to adjust to is making sure to blank overhead oncoming and any rising bird or I'll shoot way behind them. If I can see the bird when I shoot those kind of shots I'm guaranteed a miss. When I start missing, I stop and think "what would 'Robert do here?' then get my feet right, my hands right, my arms and head right and try again and I always do better immediately. Back to these basics works every time. I'd like to see a list of measurements folks can make of the distance between their shoulder pocket and eye plane, their height, and arm length somehow. I think the preferred LOP may have more to do with ones neck length and head confirmation/size than anything else. I just stood in front of a mirror and measured 10" from the approx middle of my shoulder pocket and my eye plane. Try it; is that long for short guy like me??