No one can actually tell you over the internet what ammunition may or may not be safe in a given gun. We can only say what we do or know.

From just after WW-II until he quit hunting after the 1987/8 season my Father shot an 1896 vintage 12-gauge AE-Grade Remington Hammerless Double. He didn't hesitate to use Western Super-X, Remington Express, Federal Hi-Power, etc. He also had a 16-gauge AE-Grade of about 1907 vintage which he didn't use nearly as much and which was stolen out of his house in the 1970s. Serial number P136036 in case anyone sees it! My Grandfather couldn't get the hang of that new fangled Winchester pump he'd gotten and in 1901 traded it off at Kennedy Bros. for an 1890 vintage heavy PH-Grade Parker Bros. 12-gauge. My Father along with his five brothers grew up shooting that Parker. They all believed those Damascus barrel warnings on ammunition boxes were a desperate attempt by the makers to sell some new guns in those tough Great Depression years.

From the mid-1930s my Father had a 12-gauge KED-Grade Remington Hammerless Double, which he gave to his youngest brother when he returned from his stint with Patton's 3rd Army in WW-II. Dad had his AE-Grade out here in Washington and had the KED-Grade to use when he went to Minnesota to hunt with his Father and brothers. My Father with the KED-Grade and Grandfather with his Parker Bros. in the fall of 1948 --

Attachment 70046

The AE-Grade is still fine and resides in my gun room. Grandpa's Parker continued in use for another thirty years after his death with my Uncle Howard to about 1984. It has passed through his family, none who hunt or shoot. The KED-Grade was damaged by some of my Cousins using it in the early days of steel shot. Bulged the chokes and broke the ribs loose.

Just some history to show what a lot of these old doubles have been through. I'm sure my family's guns are not unique.

I seldom shoot any of my Damascus, Laminated or Twist barrel guns, but when I do I use my light 7/8 ounce reloads.

researcher i m like your dad about the shells i shoot most of my guns are damascus orother such steel...my dad had a lefver e grade 10 ga that had damascus barrels he used many boxes of those 4 3/4 dram of powder and 1 5/8 ounce of lead shot in that old ten it brought home a many ova duck or a turkey....my old 8 ga parkers have shot some heavy loads...not telling anybody to use heavy loads but that is what i prefer most of the time....thats a great picture of your dad and grandpa....charlie

I’ve used a variety of loads in my 16 ga guns, which range from AHE Damascus, CHE Bernard, and various fluid steel, but prefer Federals and RSTs.

Here are tables showing what Parker recommended , just use the modern smokeless powder equivalent.

Using the recoil formula, which pictured 16 ga load produces less recoil?

I agree with Bruce.

I don’t see that Bruce made a statement we can agree with or disagree with.

He asks a question and I don’t see enough data to draw any kind of conclusion.

What is the powder charge ot the RST box he pictures?





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Even if the barrels can take the higher pressures (Damascus fluid, twist etc), why are you subjecting a 80 to 120 year old gun to that kind of stress. Wood dries out, gets oil soaked and running high pressure loads though these guns doesn't make sense to me. I prefer to go easy on my guns as I am only the caretaker of them. Others prefer to beat them up, to each their own.

Bruce's question has been asked numerous times on a reloading forum i belong to and the simple answer is Newton's law. The amount of ejecta is the governing factor. Equal and opposite reaction. 1 oz pushed out at 1200 fps will always create the same recoil. But it can have the perception of it changed by the powder used and the charge. Hope this makes sense, when I read it written by some one else it did.

The "amount of ejecta being the governing factor" I guess we have to assume the powder charges are equal and the 2 1/2" wad/shot cup and the 2 3/4" wad/shotcup are also equal in weight.





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The significant governing factors for recoil are the weight of the shot and its speed out the barrel. With that in mind , you will see that the Federals produce less recoil than the RSTs . And that there are close shells in Remington. Winchester and other makers. These are modern cartridges available off mail order or in stores.

Equivalent loading exists in 12 and 20 ga. I don’t know about 28 ga only because I have not looked.

A person can always buy RST cartridges, and I do, but it’s not your only choice.

Thanks Bruce for the explanation.

So, even though we have trusted RST Classic Shotshells to provide safe dependable ammo for our 100 year old guns, there are other brands we can feel comfortable in using.





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