I'm glad you asked Todd. The areas I hunt grouse, the same areas that my grandfather and also Dee Slocum hunted for the market in the 1800's, is very tight cover. Shots over 20 yards were rare back in the day and still are. The old overgrown apple orchards have dissappeared but the fox grape vines are still there along with a lot of bay berry bushes. Perfect grouse feed and cover.

Grouse are not tenacious birds and small shot brings them down. Small shot was used because of the thickness of the cover. You hope for some of the pellets to get through to the bird. You rarely get a clear shot. Thus small shot equaled more birds in the bag. It was that simple. And it worked.

Rare was the bird with a lot of shot in it, even using 10's. Dee sold for the market in NY city and birds with a lot of shot in them would never be bought. I used to pick my birds and my grandmother then washed them out in the sink. Many times she said to me "you must have scared that bird to death" noting the absence of shot. Very rare was the bird with more than three #9 pellets in the body and many is the bird I took with only one shot in the body.

I only use #9's on grouse and would use 10's if I could buy that size shot. I don't use them on quail preferring 8's so I have less shot in the bird.

I agree with your opinion for most birds but it doesn't hold for gunning grouse in thick coverts. I appreciate your response to my post.

I have a book on Skeet autographed by Dick Shaughnessy.
Wasn't he or his father a MD?





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???

Thanks for the explanation, Tom. The vast majority of my bird hunting has been out West, with a little bit in the Northeast. I would agree that the Northeast grouse hunting is a whole lot different. What I've experienced, I would stay with the bigger shot myself, but I can't argue with what works for others. Wisdom has a way of transcending generations, and I won't argue with the wisdom of the old timers.

Todd, I’ve hunted huns and sharp tails extensively in Saskatchewan and used 6's for them because some of the shots were long. They didn't hold well for a point and very often would fly before I walked past my dog. My setter Stoney learned not to crowd them but many of the shots were long. I used to use 1 1/8 loads from a lightweight 12 bore DHE and was careful not to shoot over 40 yds. Sharp tail grouse are a much different bird than the ruffed variety. And hunting in the west is a far different ballgame than hunting eastern thick grouse coverts. But its all great.

Most of my ruffled grouse has been on my friends mountain ranch in Southern Idaho. One ounce of 7s, through 5, and 15k chokes does the trick. When I hunted N. East grouse, the cover was definitely a lot denser, and the shot window a lot shorter. I was carrying an H & H Royal, 12 bore @ 6lbs 5 oz, with 30" bbl. Most of the hunt involved holding the gun vertical by the wrist, with my right hand, and moving saplings with my left. At the end of the day, I was wishing for lighter, and shorter. Maybe a 20 gauge Trojan, with bbls cut to 25". I don't know.
I have to take my hat off to you folks who hunt these types habitats on a regular basis.

Welcome back Tom. Nice to hear from you again. Was your old hobby black and white barrel restoration?
Milt

Todd, I dislike #9 shot for grouse, as it does put alot of bb's inthe meat. I shot #9 skeet loads thru my cyl/cyl VHE 20 one year, totally ruined alot of birds, and vowed never to use it again except on clays. I do like #7's as it does kill well. Grouse are not hard to kill, but I bet alot of lightly hit birds fly off without us realizing they are hit.
Tom, sounds like you have alot of good friends here happy to have you back--looking forward to more of your posts

Yeah, I'm glad Tom is back. As I recall, he is the only witness to my 45 yard kill on a quail with my Parker 28 gauge. Again, as I recall, I took a desperation shot on a bobwhite that was escaping behind a brush pile after we had emptied our guns at the other birds. The shot was a good 45 yards or more and both Tom and I agreed that we were through with that rise and we should continue hunting. However, just on a whim, I sent my Wirehair, Eva, on a long fetch toward the brush pile. We were both a bit astounded when Eva came out from behind the brush pile holding a dead bobwhite in her mouth. Tom was a very generous training partner when Eva was a pup, although she was a bit of a handful on a lead. He even brought birds out to the field for her. However, the day of the great shot, she was not on a lead and the birds were not planted. I sincerely hope that I am correct in identifying Tom as my partner that day. Jeff Mulliken would be the only other possibility and I don't remember ever carrying a gun when Jeff was my training companion.

I remember it well Bill. I also remember the time you or I shot a bird we thought we missed. We marked it down and Stoney went on point. We walked past him kicking the brush to no avail. You looked back at Stoney and spotted the bird almost under his nose laying belly up. We had a lot of fun. I was saddened to hear of Eva's passing.