Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums - Wonder How Many Grouse They Eat

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Poer (Post 227387)

BTW a great read if your a fan of Daniel Boone and reading about some his exploits is a Biography called Life of Daniel Boone. I cannot remember the author will have to dig the book out again. However, it was actually written in mid 1800's but never published until the 1990's. The author was a historian that finished someone else's work but kept the same style of technical writing biographers from that era. Needless to say, it is an arduous style to read with documented interviews and accounts from direct sources and family members that knew the man. It can be quite wandering.

Anyway enough of the preface to my point, essentially about 250 years ago Kentucky looked about like what a good bit eastern woodlands were before the europeans settled the area. It documents at how much game the woodlands would produce and support. Turkey flocks in the 100's, deer everywhere, even tremendous herds of Buffalo and elk until the market hunters and settlers with no limits or seasons just decimated the game populations in a very short period of time.

Things are always changing even if you try and manage portions of it cause and effect are hard to identify, regulate or correct. There are some great success stories, mostly nowadays about turkey and deer populations, some species may find it too hard to get back to a thriving wild population like bob white quail. Different reasons for success of that wild population.

Grouse populations actually benefit from mans logging activities. Game numbers, management and hunter roles in all aspects are critical and complex. I like it where biologists say drum counts are up 57% from last year. Makes no mention of where it is in the 7 to 10 year cycle. If you look at the actual numbers that could mean last years drum beat was 3 and this years was 4.8. Anticipation is an incredible aphrodisiac and market force.

I'm just going to walk away from this post as there is so much wrong with this post (habitat loss maybe.....? ) I think we may have a troll...... I hope I am wrong !

Nope, not a Troll. What seems to be the problem with my post or to say what issue do you have. Are you not a fan of history? I am an avid hunter when I can be and a steward of a fine 16 Ga Parker built in 1907 along with some other good hunting guns. Old enough to remember what hunting wild quail is really like and what a real bird dog can do with wild quail. Also have trained and hunted some really good labs. I have hunted and harvested about every game bird there is in the SE and have hunted a few times for ducks and grouse in Minnesota. So, please enlighten me with the "wrong"

Just a few thoughts . . .

The NWTF estimates that pre-Columbian turkey populations may have been as high as 10 million birds, but that number declined to as low as 200,000 in the 1940s. I believe current estimates are somehwere around 5-6 million birds, so I think we can be encouraged on that front.

As for whitetail deer, after nearly being decimated in the market hunting days, populations appear to have actually surpassed the estimates of hundreds of years ago. That is, these are the "Good Old Days" as far as whitetail and turkey hunting go.

I care most, however, about the state of ruffed grouse, as that is the upland bird I hunt here in southern Appalachia. Todd is right, with qualifications, about logging benefitting grouse. Grouse prefer young forests, and young forests are found where logging happens. The lack of active management in our Southern forests, certainly in addition to other causes, has led to a sharp decline in grouse numbers over the last few decades. We aren't talking about habitat loss when we talk about active management; this is habitat generation in the form of increased stem density providing food and cover for grouse and many other species. Old forests are empty forests, and I advocate strongly on behalf of management practices that increase wildlife habitat.

Totally agree with you Christian. I had some problems with other parts of Todd's post

Eric,

New to site and not trying to square off with anyone, so could you please enlighten me as to what part of my post you have issue with. It seems you don't take umbrage with historic game counts, is there something about Daniel Boone that has you chafed? I am confused. If its a simple misunderstanding glad to clarify and move on, but to be labeled a Troll not certain what the purpose is for that comment. Again please point out the wrong, or don't. I guess I really don't care.

Christian,

Thank you for the followup and much more referenced info than I provided. Been awhile since hunted Grouse in Southern Appalachia, but as I recall those hills are damn cruel and you have to be a tough SOB to hunt Grouse in most parts of their southern range. All I know is that when we hunted them I can say that I know of no enterprise that took so much effort that yielded such little return on the harvest of the game, but those walks in the woods were memorable. I don't know how many times I crawled up the side of a hill to get to our Brittany pointed. I would be hanging on for dear life to a laurel bush with one hand and shotgun in the other as bird would flush from under my feet. I had better luck trying to kick one to death than I ever did shooting one, but they were there and pretty much unmolested by us. Pretty sure where we mostly hunted those birds died of old age.

The terrain we went to since we thought we were smarter than everyone else had a 30 to 50 foot limestone cliff/cap on top of the hills. You would work those hill sides and every flush you got they would fly to top of the mountain. It was like a grouse fortress up there. I swear some of those birds got so old and big I thought if we hung around to long they would kick boulders down onto us.

BTW to original thread author Gary, not trying to derail your post. That is one heck of a stately looking bobcat. I have seen a few but not many in the Southeast. The one big problem we have are the feral hogs that are out of control and no real natural predators to keep them in check. A few more Bobcats down here working on some piglets might be the ticket. Maybe we need to import some. I'll tell you what there are parts of the rural SE you don't walk around without a gun, especially in low light, some of those hogs are mean and very dangerous. Have not heard of a mauling yet but its a matter of time.

Once went on a boon doggle to Cabin Bluff on Georgia Coast. Hunting quail and other things. They wanted to know if we would like to shoot pigs. I said sure. They handed me a 270 and two boxes of shells and told me to get in that stand and don't come down until we come for you. They said no matter the size if its got a curly tail shoot it. I thought for sure I was going to be shooting pigs, the field was all torn up and rutted and rooted by pigs but none showed up. The quail guides despised the hogs with a passion, seems one of the boars cut one one of their bird dogs pretty bad and they were on the war path.