Pete,

I'm talking about crippling. We've all killed stuff at great distances, but fifty on large game birds is chancing it. The NWTF reccomends 40 yards as the maximum ethical distance to take turkeys. Now crows I'd go sixty plus in the short ten.

An expert shot may kill every time at flying game at fifty yards with one and an eighth ounces of number 4s, but I can't and don't like to cripple. I've got no 10 Parkers with what I consider an extra full choke. Most around .035. I took a 3.5 inch Spanish ten double out Saturday with .045 in the left barrel. It shoots an ounce more shot than the average short ten load. How far is that good for? Fifty? Sixty? Off a bench yes.

I'll stick with my opinion of forty and less is the ideal distance on game animals with a short ten full choke. When one tries to shoot at forty, one ends up shooting much farther every time. It's only natural to misjudge distances in the excitement of hunting.

Here's my opinion; the short 10's such as an Ithaca Super 10 made for high velocity loads with 1-5/8 ounce of lead shot will absolutely flatten a large turkey or predator such as a fox at 60 yards = my personal max based on actual patterning. That's with heavy choking at 45 points or even a touch more and using hard lead 4's (max for turkeys here in PA) or with 2's for foxes and BB's for coyotes. Same for waterfowl using real NICE shot (not bismuth) or with Kent TM that's been mined from Kent factory shells. Sure everyone wants as close a humane shot as possible but if a bird is wounded that second shot is taken at whatever the range happens to be. Now I'm not talking here about light short 10 loads with 1-1/8 or even 1-1/4 ounce of lead, or worse yet, with bismuth for waterfowl. Funny, just yesterday there was a discussion over breakfast on the way to our sporting club, about the merits of the modern practice of shooting fine shot at turkeys and going for the head. The concensus by several long time hunters is, that works well when the bird is called in relatively close, but also that the old timers knew what they were doing by shooting 2's as generally recommended by the period ammo companies for the large birds. Again, 4's are the max allowed for turkeys nowadays here in PA. Our spring season opened on Saturday and two of the buds were showing off cell pics of good gobblers taken the day before with 3-inch 12's and regular 4-shot. Not some modern fad turkey load with a cool sounding name. At least some of the guys are keeping the faith ..... :)

Frank,

I don't disagree with a thing you say. I passed on a Super Ten Ithaca last year, and it was a big mistake. Then I saw those brand new old stock Remington high power shells in 1 5/8 at the Southern, and wished I had the gun. What a killer!

But when we are loading the short ten with just 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 for low pressure damascus/twist (which will equal slower speeds, unlike those Remingtons at 1300 fps), my opinion to Wayne is it would be unethical to try to stretch it to 40 and 50 yards. I have not seen a lifter 10 choked at .045 as I said, mostly what I have seen is in the .035 range which will require patterning to find out what it will really do. I say 40 max to be ethical. After that its 50/50 if you can go pick him up. You'll get some, you'll lose some.

I also agree on the 2s for turkeys (long before the days of shooting for the head only where body shots would put them down) and that dead horse is smelly from last year's discussion. The old timers then shot for the base of the neck, putting number 2 shot in the neck, head, and body, or at the whole turkey on the wing. That's why the shell manufacturers put that in the listing of what size to use for different animals.

Wayne,

Maybe you don't have Pete's data? Go to the about the 9th reply and print the .pdf. Thanks for the spreadsheet Pete.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthr...hort+load+data

I do have Pete's data and it is good data I just have a lack of loading components in Ga. And for the record I wouldn't wast the shell to shoot at a Turkey at fifty yards. thirty is about max with the 4s and 5s I have on hand. My problem is that I have tried these same loads in several of my 10s (and I have many 10s) and I am getting the same results. I am more inclined to think it is something I am doing during the reloading process. I would love to try some paper hulls just for comparison. Unfortunately I have no hulls to try.

I like the 1 1/8 oz short 10 loads for Clay targets. Game it needs more shot. Go light with larger shot not many pellets in the load to fill out the pattern.

William

Just for kicks I drug out the old 10 and a set of pin gauges. Now I know this wont be 100% accurate but it should be close. Both barrels measure the same. they measure .796 all the way down to about 3" from the muzzle and .730 to the end. So there is .030th constriction in each barrel. I am not positive what that equates to but it sounds like full and full. If that isn't correct some one please say so.

yes, you should get 70 to 80 % patterns with that gun.

Harder shot such as high antimony (magnum) lead, "good" quality copper plated not the current copper washed stuff or the newer non toxic shot like Nice shot will go a long way to tighten your patterns.

Yes I think 7625 would be a better choice for a heavier load. 32 grains of 7625 with 1 1/4 ounce is a Sherman Bell load that develops 6700 psi and 1170 fps. I'd feel comfortable upping it to 1 3/8 ounce but that is just me.

There is a lower pressure published load for Longshot powder using 1 3/8 ounce of Nice Shot in the Federal Hull. 8800 psi with a velocity of 1335 fps. Remember Nice Shot is loaded to lead recipes adding and additional 1500 psi. In this case you are going from Nice Shot to lead so that should be 1 3/8 of lead moving at 1335 with a pressure of 7300 psi. If it patterns well that would be a good turkey load in a composite barreled short ten.

If the Red Dot is not giving you the pattern you are looking for try 22gr of Green Dot with 1 1/8 ounce. I have used that a lot on clay pigeons. When I really want to reach out and touch crows I used 27gr of Green Dot with 1 1/4 ounce. Alliant has published loads for GD using 29 grains with 1 1/4 ounce in a 3.5" hull, pressure is 8800 psi and velocity 1265. I have shot a lot of them through a twist barrel NH without issue.

Closer is almost always better, but short tens that can pattern in the high 80 and low 90 percent at 40 yards with 1 1/4 ounce loads are very effective beyond that range. However Turkey's are not ducks.