Broken Stock

[Edwin Maner]

This morning while hunting, a bird dog running at full tilt smacked into the stock of my 20 ga parker reproduction knocking it from my hands. The gun hit the ground and the stock broke along a clean diagonal line following the grain from the safety to the middle of the checkering on the english stock. Can any one offer names of gunsmiths who can repair or replace. I live in Gerogia so southeast preferable but not required.

[George M. Purtill]

Post a picture so we can learn.
Also it might help who we direct you to.

[allen newell]

Contact Brad Bachelder @ Bachelder Master Gunmakers in Grand Rapids, MI. Brad is a member of this forum and you can google him tro get his contact. There are others on the Forum as well, B. Dudley, etc.

[edgarspencer]

Chris Dawe is a magician.

[Richard Skeuse]

Hi Fellows I have used Dave Wolf out of Waco Tx phone is 254-662-6431 or 254 744-9973. I have sent a lot of folks to him and if he can fix it he will and if he can't he will tell you he can't and send it back. I have used him on my presonal gun that the same thing happen to except I went down with the gun. Good luck!

[Gerry Addison]

I have to second what Richard has said. I've used Dave Wolf for a number of repairs and refinish and I can't imagine anyone doing a better job. I dropped my 28GA Repro and broke it into two pieces at the wrist and you really had to look hard to find the repair after he was done and it was strong as ever. Plus, he has a super fast turn around. Very nice man to deal with. Not cheap, but you certainly get what you pay for with him. Most repairs are invisible when he finishes with them especially if it is with the grain.

[George M. Purtill]

Chris Dawe is a magician.

Based on what I have seen. I second that, even if it was Schmeggar who said it.

[Edwin Maner]

As any of you may imagine this made me sick!
Does anyone have an opinion about whether this can be repaired? Also looking for names and contact of those who may be able to repair or replace.
See attached photos.

23470

23471

23472

23473

[Gerry Addison]

This should be easier to repair than mine as mine was 90 degrees to the grain of the wood. Yours runs mostly with the grain so you have good gluing surfaces to work with. Give Dave Wolf a call and talk with him. Tell him I told you to call and he will certainly tell you if it can be repaired. Can't recommend him highly enough.

[Edwin Maner]

Thank you all who have responded so quickly - I truly appreciate all the help and advice. I'm brand new to this forum and am touched by the knowledge and care you have shared about this situation. I will follow up on your leads.

[allen newell]

I would second Edgar's opinion of Chris Dawe's work. He is a magician. JUst remember that if you have to send anything to Canada with a frame attached, that it will have to go through an importer as it is still treated as a firearm. This will add to the cost, so you should check this out. If you can send just the stock to Chris, you are in good hands. His work is stellar!

[Gerry Addison]

Here is the picture of my stock after Dave worked on it. If you look carefully you can see the slightly different color to the right of the drop point and running up through the top tip of the checkering. He didn't even refinish the butt, just blended the affected area to save me some money. Said he could make it completely disappear if we refinished the entire butt. Since this was my grouse gun I thought I would wait until it needed to be refinished and then have him do it.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/esetter/Broken%20Parker/file_zps303495c9.jpg

[Gerry Addison]

Before and after by Dave Wolf:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/esetter/Parker%20Repair2/file_zps38d12533.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/esetter/Parker%20Repair/file_zps44fecff4.jpg

[allen newell]

Gerry, did Dave re-cut the checkering border closest to break and thereabouts? I couldn't tell from the angle of the photo. Dave did a good job for you.

[Gerry Addison]

I'm not really sure. He actually glued it up and sent it back to me to shoot for a while to make sure it held up well to the pressures of shooting and then I returned it to him for the finish work. I shot 200 rounds through it at skeet and there wasn't any movement at all, the the stock was solid as a rock so he finished the affected area. I don't think he has ever had one of my guns for more than 3 weeks. Super quick. Again, this was my hunting gun, so I wasn't as concerned about it being 100% perfect with regards to the cosmetic appearance, but I still think it came out looking very good. I never had anyone that handled the gun pick up on the break.

[Tommy Neely]

Contact John Garvin 111 Archie Dr Albany, Ga. 229-888-7891. He repaired a broken stock on my Repo several years ago.

[Joe Bernfeld]

I broke my 28 ga about 4 years ago. Glued it myself. No problems since. The repair is at the front of the checkering; all but invisible.

[Brian Dudley]

That break on your gun is pretty clean looking and should repair nicely.

[John Farrell]

Parker Reproductions. Ended up restocking it because the PGCA was not in existence and the people that had the guns made in Japan, Reagent Chemical Co., could care less.

[edgarspencer]

It may only be that it sticks in my mind, and not so many in reality, but it seems there are more broken repros coming to the surface daily. Maybe there should be a registry for them. Apart from old and abused hammer guns, I don't recall the last time I heard anyone say they broke an original Parker.

[allen newell]

Edgar, I read somewhere that there has been a long standing stock issue with the reproduction Parkers. That there has been a tendency for breaking at the wrist.

[edgarspencer]

You probably read it here, in an old thread. There is a good argument that the old stockmakers knew there was more to look for in a blank than figure. If you looks through high grade blanks, you will see that they are sawn such that the grain straightens out significantly at, or slightly behind the wrist. That's why the blanks are often sanded on the upper and lower surfaces, in addition to the sides. There may be as much as an inch extra material on a blank, giving the stockmaker the greatest latitude in choosing where the final piece comes from within the envelope of the blank size.

[chris dawe]

Nice shot with that hammer Edgar,you hit the nail right on the head!

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Edgar,
I have had the stock on my VH16 repaired a couple of times. Grouse hunting in the Appa;achians will take its toll.

[Gerry Addison]

Harold, I don't know what your Parker looks like but that is a good looking setter.

[edgarspencer]

If you come to Maine Harold, you'd better bring some glue. You're tough on that old girl.

[Dean Romig]

Apparantly Parker Bros. had the experience and reputation to uphold in the area of stocks breaking at the wrist. The Parker gun is generally noted for its very desirable and classic 'thin wrist' and because of this, coupled with nicely figured wood on the graded guns, (gererally Grade 3 and higher) the necessity of the 'invention' of the hickory reinforcing rod became paramount and was possibly (or probably) an oversight on the part of those who designed/developed/commissioned the "Parker Reproduction by Winchester".

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I bet if you took the stock off alot of old Parkers we would find some old repairs and/or cracks in the wood. Hell, they are 100 years old and I think the wood just becomes brittle. Had the stock off a SW16 to take care of a safety issue and found a crack that would probably have broken with a good fall, so we pre-emptively accraglassed it.
E-setter, yes, Betty is a little sweetheart. Has an unbelievable nose, will back forever, retrieves and loves me to death. Tried to breed her in Feb., but was unsuccessful. BTW, I live in Wheeling now but lived the majority of my life in Belmont County, Oh and do most of my local hunting in Oh where I still own 170 acres. It is an absolute shame what has happened to the Ohio grouse population. I talk to several Cincinati grouse hunters each year in the UP.
Damn, I missedethat bird!

[Greg Baehman]

IMHO, the Repros are getting a bad rap for breaking at the wrist that has been propagated by an uninformed few so often that the the peanut gallery have come to believe it as fact -- and now they are repeating it. The facts are the Repros that have broken at the wrist have broken accidentally by a variety of catostrophic experiences such as by dropping, taking a fall with the gun in hand and as we learned in this thread -- by dog, etc.

[Gerry Addison]

She looks great and at one time we had unbelievable grouse hunting in Ohio, but no more. Now it is Wisconsin for me. I'll bet I know the guys you talk to in the UP.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/esetter/Setters/file_zps42cf6b3b.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/esetter/Setters/file_zps5c2215fc.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/esetter/Setters/file_zps4be1964d.jpg

[Richard Skeuse]

Thank You Wild Skyes, I can not tell you the amount of people that sent broken stocks in that said" I don't know what happened to it, I took it out of the case put it together and it broke". Yet some of those very stocks came in with dented barrels ,stone dust stuck to the wood, scratches where it fell of the car roof, muddy dog foot prints on it. you name it and the customer wanted us to fix it or replace it. There had been stocks that were replaced with defects in the wood, but the vast majority were broken by accident. One of the posters said we(Reagent) did not care about the customer and that is just not true. We tried to please every customer. If we didn't we would not have been in business very long with many repeat customers. Thanks and have a Happy Easter.

[Rob Greenside]

Harold, Any recommendations as to where I could locate a nice setter pup? Did you at one time raise setters? Thanks, Rob

[Gerry Addison]

I might be able to help you with the setter pup. A good friend has a well bred litter of setters on the ground right now. You can email me at esetter5@me.com and I'll give you his info.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Rob,
my female(in the picture) was in heat in Feb but she was quite uncooperative and it never happened. I was disappointed cause my male will be 12 this fall.
Gerry, send me the info on those pups also if you can.
Harold

[germain.mark@gmail.com]

Edwin,
I have a similar break on my parker 28 Repro.
Did you send you parker to Dave wolf in Waco TX as shown in this thread-
or did you go somewhere else for the repair, and were you satisfied with the results?

Thanks,
Mark Germain

[John Farrell]

Add me to the long list of Repro 28 owners that had to restock the gun. What made me most angry was the manufacturer/distributor did absolutely nothing when I asked if it were possible to get a replacement stock from them. And this was back in 1988 as I recall. I think all the stocks on the Repros were Larch or possibly a Japanese Linden that is used for the lightweight paper covered doors used in the Japanese homes for partitions.

And, don't even get me started on the built-in defect that Larry Del Grego finally found after I sent the gun to him. It had been at the factory gunsmith twice and came back with the same problem twice. Couldn't get rid of that POS fast enough.

[Dave Suponski]

What was the built in defect John?

[Dean Romig]

It's not the gun that's a POS but some of the wood they used.

[Kenny Graft]

I will pay scrap price!....send them all to ME......(-:
I have fallen a few times with my repro's....They took a slam and did not brake. Im sure if a void was under the grip area it could have been bad. Parker repro's wood is petite, thin in the wrist area, like the originals. This is part of the reason they are so well liked. I do not feel they have any factory defect or inferior wood. Its a small trade off for how dynamic, light and nice the guns are. They are more fragile than say a stevens 311 or a model 21 but they do not feel clubby either. I do wish we still had the factory repair parts that were lost in the flood, and had less expensive replacement stocks for repairs when needed.
I think Parker Reproductions as a company did great service to its customers.....I have had some business in the past with Richard and found him very helpful. He even sent me a surprise package of memorabilia that I still have. Thanks all SXS ohio....(-:

[John Farrell]

On the skeet field, taking a station 8 high house straight overhead would result in the gun locking up and not opening for reload for the low house. Sometimes I could give the underside of the receiver a good whack with the heel of my hand and the gun would open. The real pain in the butt was in the hunting field when shooting at a high incoming bird caused the same problem. The gun would lock closed and not open at all. Several times it was a long walk back to the car to get my spare gun. It never happened except on that straight overhead shot. Larry Del Grego shot it and could not make it lock up until I told him of the exact situation. Then he had it happen. Upon taking it down to parts he found a burr on the spindle shaft (?), filed it off and the gun could be used. I was never relaxed shooting the gun; after the cyanide bluing rubbed off during the first hunting season, the broken stock, then that problem, I had enough and found a VH28. It was like owning an Edsel.

And, I'm not a picky guy. I can accommodate the peculiarities of life easily, but not with that Repro.

[edgarspencer]

In 66 years, I've handled more guns than some, less than others, but think I have a pretty good sense of "feel", as in, it feels "good", or it feels "warm". I have some old shoes like that. They may have been like any other, when they were off-the-shelf new, but now they look like I want them to look, feel like I want them to feel, and slip on an off with ease.
I enjoy the gun shops where you can take anything down and handle it, or even walk out the door to swing it at an imaginary target. Some of the new European doubles feel super, others feel like new shoes. I still see NIB Reproductions, and on occasion will heft one. I don't think any of them have the correct stock profile, especially at the heel of the butt. The radius is much greater than either a Meriden, or Illion gun. There is a resonance in the gun that transmits to the hand when you close it up. Not there for me in a repro, but I may just be tuned to a different frequency.
I had an old Benz diesel wagon that I bought when it was five. I drove it for years, and 300+K miles and lament the day the new owner drove it off. I could have replaced it with new, albeit only recently in a diesel, but I didn't.
I don't have to own something to appreciate it. I went over to CSMC the day after Christmas to exchange my new bore and choke gauge with one that had a micrometer barrel whose threads were more like a machine screw and not like a wine press. The one they sell is a copy of the old Chubbs gauge from England. They had one that worked OK, but before I left, I hefted many Parkers, and gave the Remington commissioned AAHE a good look-over. I spent a lot longer fondling a 230,xxx range AHE 20 with 30 " tubes. They both had eyeball appeal, but the 20 was warm. Sometimes a copy, however good it looks, is just a copy.

[Dean Romig]

I'm pretty sure I know how I like a gun to feel and I have a bunch of Parkers that I like. I don't ask that a gun fit me perfectly because I know I can conform very easily to fit my guns. I know how my guns should feel between my hands and how they should come to my shoulder and how dynamic they should feel when swinging on a target or a gamebird. My Repros do that for me just as well as all of my original Parkers. I think a lot of this "feel" is in the mind of the shooter just as much as it is a physical thing. Repros were made to the exact in every respect, specifications of the original Remington Parkers that were used as patterns to be duplicated. Sometimes in a Repro you get a piece of wood that might be prone to breaking, and it might.... This is why Parker Bros. developed the hickory reinforcement rod through the wrist so I guess they had some complaints too, right?

[Joe Bernfeld]

In 66 years, I've handled more guns than some, less than others, but think I have a pretty good sense of "feel", as in, it feels "good", or it feels "warm".I

Not sure what that means, but I too have handled and owned my share of guns, although in only 64 years :p. Everything from Lebeau Courallys and Holland and Hollands, to Garbis, Grullas, Browning Diana, and many others. I've owned 7 Parker Repros and they felt as good as any of the others to me!

[Rich Anderson]

I have a Holland & Holland and a Charles Boswell that are both so thin in the wrist it's scary:eek: I won't take them out on a winter hunt as a fall will surely break something.

I have had several of the Reproduction Parkers both 20's and 28's back in the day when I couldn't afford an original Parker. I have never had any issue with them and they had single triggers for the majority of them. They are a great gun at a good price.

[edgarspencer]

When my dad died, he had over 50 side by sides, and more than half were Parkers. The rest were English. If you held one of his H&H 20s in one hand and his Purdey 20 in the other, my description of "warmth" would be more easily understood.
He had a virtually new DHE 20 with 26" barrels and one day brought home a reproduction 20, in all repects, the same gun. To look at either, you felt you were holding a great gun, but to hold the two at the same time, the warmth factor popped right out. He gave that 20 to one off my Nephews, and I'm still trying to figure out how to get it back. The repro went in short order.
I think what I find I like the least of the Repros is the stock and fore end. I also don't like their cyanide case colors, but a little borax and linseed oil cures that fast. I prefer guns with dark wood, and oil finishes. Maybe 'warmth' comes with age, because I have a friend who has a repro 16 with more miles on it than most originals, and it 'feels' good.
My dad's CHE 28 became my daughter's Master's degree, and that's an itch I am still scratching. I know I could get a repro 28 tomorrow, but will wait till the right real one comes along that I can afford. I know it won't be a CHE, but a VH would be just fine. I look at gauge and configuration before grade anyway.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the likability of repros. They may, and probably are good guns, but I have enough variety in my guns, and there's no void that only a repro can fill

[Dean Romig]

But I have enough variety in my guns, and there's no void that only a repro can fill.

I agree, but will say that, at the times that I bought them, there were three Repros that I just had to have.

[charlie cleveland]

i know the feeling of warmth in your hands its like haveing a parker in one hand and a stevens in the left....but i still have a place in the corner for a few old stevens... charlie

[Greg Baehman]

I think we should all bow our heads and say a little prayer for Edgar.:bowdown: So, he too; can make room in his heart for a Repro. :cheers:

[Dean Romig]

Amen to that!!

[edgarspencer]

That prayer better include lots of fire and chicken feet cuz it's not something the Nuns are gonna be able to pull off on their own.

[Joe Bernfeld]

[QUOTE=edgarspencer;124739We'll have to agree to disagree on the likability of repros. They may, and probably are good guns, but I have enough variety in my guns, and there's no void that only a repro can fill[/QUOTE]

With all due respect Edgar, and I am aware that everyone is entitled to their opinion, it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to come to a Parker Reproduction forum to tell everyone why you don't like Parker Reproductions :duck:.

[edgarspencer]

Actually, It's a sub-forum of the Parker Gun Collectors Assoc., not the Parker Reproduction Gun Collectors Assoc. (Please don't let that keep you from spending $40 and Joining the PGCA. You'll get 4 issues of the best collector oriented magazine there is, and access to the members only section. They sell repros there too)
Maybe if you're that intimidated by criticism, you ought to get the mods to put a sticky up that says it's only permissible to post if you Love repros.
Just to set the record straight, I never said I hated the gun, and in fact have mildly intimated the opposite. If you're unhappy that I'm not just gushing over them, I can't help you with that.
I recognize it would have made the gun somewhat more expensive had they done the case hardening in bone/leather/organic, as opposed to cyanide. Finding a sufficient quantity of American, or European walnut would have been difficult, and more expensive.
No, I'm not in love with the repro, like I am a Meriden gun. I don't hate it, and if I have enough years left, and wake up some morning unhappy that between the far left, and far right of my 15 Parkers, there is a gun missing, gauge, grade, whatever, I might fill it with a Repro. I've certainly done dumber things than that.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I have owned many Parker Shotguns in my life, but never a repro, why? cause they did not make them with external hammers, and they do not have that dark wood and beautiful patterned barrels, but if any body has one in say a 130 years that still earns its keep, let me know, PS please send that letter airmail not ground, Gary

[Rich Anderson]

There is a place for every shotgun and every shotgun has it's place. My first repo was a straight grip 28 and a lot of Grouse fell to that gun. It was as close as I could get to a Parker with my current financial status or lack thereof at 22 or 23 yrs young.

In todays market for $5K +or- find me a better sxs. I consider myself lucky to have two original Parker 28's today but wouldn't disparage the repro or anyone who wanted one.

Why do these guns generate so much flack? Seems they kinda paved the way for the Galazan Fox (I have one, an FE in 410 and its a great gun also) the M21 also from Galazan, Ithaca Classic doubles to name a few. IMHO the reproduction Parker was ahead of its time and helped in the resurgance of the double gun.

[Joe Bernfeld]

Actually, It's a sub-forum of the Parker Gun Collectors Assoc., not the Parker Reproduction Gun Collectors Assoc. (Please don't let that keep you from spending $40 and Joining the PGCA. You'll get 4 issues of the best collector oriented magazine there is, and access to the members only section. They sell repros there too)
Maybe if you're that intimidated by criticism, you ought to get the mods to put a sticky up that says it's only permissible to post if you Love repros.
Just to set the record straight, I never said I hated the gun, and in fact have mildly intimated the opposite. If you're unhappy that I'm not just gushing over them, I can't help you with that.
I recognize it would have made the gun somewhat more expensive had they done the case hardening in bone/leather/organic, as opposed to cyanide. Finding a sufficient quantity of American, or European walnut would have been difficult, and more expensive.
No, I'm not in love with the repro, like I am a Meriden gun. I don't hate it, and if I have enough years left, and wake up some morning unhappy that between the far left, and far right of my 15 Parkers, there is a gun missing, gauge, grade, whatever, I might fill it with a Repro. I've certainly done dumber things than that.

Who said you hated them...:rolleyes:? And I'm certainly not intimidated by your criticisms. As I said, you're entitled to your opinion. I also never said you needed to "gush over them." I also didn't call this the "Parker Reproduction Gun Collectors Association," however, the part of the forum that you are reading right now is specifically about Parker Reproductions. I don't belong to the PGCA simply because I have no interest in original Parkers, and I'm not a "Collector." Sounds like you may be a bit overly sensitive :p ?

[Eldon Goddard]

I have to ask. Why do you not have interest in original parkers? I can not figure it out.

[edgarspencer]

Sounds like you may be a bit overly sensitive :p ?
Thank you for your diagnosis, Dr. Bernfield

[Rich Anderson]

Edgar Dr. COB offers the following RX for being overly sensitive. Take several shots of your favorite adult beverage and watch some OBamma speeches, your blood pressure will rise and some colour will appear in your face but thats ok. You won't be overly sensitive any more:rotf:

[edgarspencer]

Unfortunately, Rich, under real doctors orders I can't crack the label on anything for another week. Yeah, it was a real exciting New Years Eve.

[Joe Bernfeld]

Thank you for your diagnosis, Dr. Bernfield

Dr. Bernfeld (not Bernfield) to you :p!

[Rich Anderson]

Edgar I'll bring some medicine to Hausmanns so keep your RX handy.

[edgarspencer]

Dr. Bernfeld (not Bernfield) to you :p!

Etymology

From Middle High German velt, from Old High German feld, from Proto-Germanic *felþą, from Proto-Indo-European *pelh₂-. Cognates include Dutch veld and English field.[1]. German Gefilde (“fields”) is a collective derivation of Feld.[2]

Whatever:p

[Eldon Goddard]

Wes Thu Hal
Mr. Spencer

[edgarspencer]

Ic þe þancas do.

[Eldon Goddard]

I am not smart enough to know how to type thorn on a keyboard.