1/2 frame 12 ga.

[Jim DiSpagno]

Have a set of 30" 12 ga ejector bbls. with no rib inscription. serial # 190647.
No records exist. They are marked 1/2 on rear lug and 1 with small 2 on front lug. Where serial number normally exists, is stamped V grade 12 ga for 2 3/4" shells. Each flat has Parker gun works overload proved and rt. flat made in USA unstruck weight 3 15 other marks WMM then 3KL3 and a star then HK3 RH3.
What do I have here? Thanks, Jim D

[Bill Murphy]

To be sure you have a 1/2 frame barrel set, measure the exact distance between firing pins. If you have a real 1?2 frame, the distance will be 1 1/16". If it is a lightly marked 1 1/2 frame, it will be 1 1/8". I have a 1/2 frame gun without barrels. I would be interested in purchasing your barrels. Thanks.

[greg conomos]

I didn't think they made 1/2 frames in the 190XXX era....

[Brian Dudley]

This is an odd one. The serial number is a Meriden number from the late 20's. but those grade and chamber markings are a Remington thing. And all known 1/2 frame guns were assembled by Remington. The 1/2 frame was developed by Meriden, but not until about 1930.
What is the measurement across the breech face on your barrels?

[Bill Murphy]

It sounds like a Remington rebarrel of a #1 frame gun, which has the same pin spacing as the 1/2 frame. No telling whether the 190,000 gun was a 12 or a 16, could have been either. I sure would like to try those barrels on my 1/2 frame receiver.

[Jim DiSpagno]

Bill murphy, check your pms

[Bill Murphy]

OK, as of this afternoon, Jim and I have reached an agreement on the barrels, he has mailed them, they have arrived, and I have snapped them on my little DHE #1/2 frame single trigger Parker. With the #1 frame 28" 16 gauge barrels, this gun weighs 6 pounds, 6 ounces. With the #1/2 frame 28" 12 gauge barrels, the gun weighs 6 pounds, 12 ounces. This gun is a real bird gun, with a #00 frame straight grip stock with skeleton butt. The butt is the smallest I have seen on a Parker, quite a bit smaller than the butt on my .410 Skeet. The 16 gauge Parker Special Steel barrels are bored IC and M. The 12 gauge Remington Alloy Steel barrels are bored .012 and .033, M and IM. What better combination could there be? Now for test fire. Thanks for a great deal, Jim.

[Dean Romig]

It sounds like a Remington rebarrel of a #1 frame gun, which has the same pin spacing as the 1/2 frame. No telling whether the 190,000 gun was a 12 or a 16, could have been either. I sure would like to try those barrels on my 1/2 frame receiver.




DingDingDingDingDing.... We have a winner!!

[Russ Jackson]

What a stroke of luck ,Congrats. to both Parties:cheers:Sounds like a Great outfit Bill !

[Chuck Bishop]

Murphy must know someone upstairs:shock: He's had a run of good luck this last year:bowdown:

[Jim DiSpagno]

What do they say? Good things happen to good people. I'm glad it all worked out. Jim

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Bill,
did the barrels just fit right on, or did they need fitted? How about some pictures?

[Dave Suponski]

Harold,Mr. Murphy is picture challenged. Maybe we should send a tutor to Bill's house and instruct him on the art of Photo Presentation on the PGCA site....:rolleyes:

[Bill Murphy]

Harold, the barrels fit right on with good doll's head fit and a little extra headspace at the breech face. I have never seriously filed a set of barrels to make them fit because I always think the original gun is right around the corner. Sometimes it is. The 190,000 series gun that these barrels are missing from could be an AHE 16 gauge. I want the barrels to be waiting when I find the gun. I'll list the serial number in the missing parts thread.

[Eric Eis]

[QUOTE=Bill Murphy;101435]Harold, the barrels fit right on with good doll's head fit and a little extra headspace at the breech face. I have never seriously filed a set of barrels to make them fit because I always think the original gun is right around the corner. Sometimes it is. The 190,000 series gun that these barrels are missing from could be an AHE 16 gauge. I want the barrels to be waiting when I find the gun. I'll list the serial number in the missing parts thread.[/QUOTE

Just wish I could find 30" damscus barrels ejector barrels for an O frame 16 ga. :whistle:

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I am surprised that the barrels just snapped right in place. I tried to switch the barrels from my O frame DHE 16 with the barrels from my O frame VH 20 , but they wouldnt swap, and yes I was really bored that day. I have 2 Fox SW 16's and can swap barrels on them and also can switch barrels beyween my 2 SW 20's. Glad things worked out so well.

[Bill Murphy]

Among my experiences "snapping" odd barrels onto other Parkers are these. GHE Damascus 0 frame 16, snapped on a set of Parker Special Steel 16 gauge ejector barrels. 0 Grade 32" top action #2 frame, snapped on a set of 30" Twist 10 gauge barrels. GHE 0 frame 16, snapped on 32" A-1 Special 20 gauge barrels. Of course, there is the 1/2 frame, snapped on #1 frame 16 gauge PSS barrels as well as 12 gauge 1/2 frame Remington alloy barrels. DH #2 frame 12 gauge 30" and 32" two barrel factory set, snapped on Titanic Steel 26" barrels. DHE #1 frame 16 gauge, snapped on 28" PSS 16 gauge barrels. BH grade #3 frame ten gauge, 18", snapped on 30" Titanic Steel 10 gauge barrels. Same gun, snapped on 32" 10 gauge Damascus barrels from EH grade. DH grade #2 frame 12 gauge, snapped on two sets of Bernard Steel 12 gauge barrels. None of these barrels matched the receivers, none of the guns or barrels were filed to fit, all guns are tightly fitted and work well except the 12 gauge 1/2 frame barrels, which have a little excess headspace at the breech face. These are not just idle experiments. They are orphan barrels that I have bought over the years and threw into the junk pile, just in case. They have made some interesting two and three barrel sets, but are all available when the original guns come along. The best of the best after the reunion of the CH Bernard two barrel set is my three barrel factory GHE Damascus 16 set. I bought that gun as a 24" 0 frame one barrel gun. A year after purchase, the seller called and asked if I wanted the 28" and 30" barrels and forends. The 26" barrels are missing. In two of the examples above, the original guns did come along, with some help from my Parker friends.

[Scott Janowski]

Bill, you need to by more Powerball tickets!

[Bill Murphy]

For the first time, I took my 1/2 frame DHE out for a run with the PSS 16 gauge barrels. Everything worked just fine with RST Lite one ounce loads. In my previous post, I mentioned that the gun weighs 6 pounds, 12 ounces with the 12 gauge Remington barrels, serial number 190647 . Those are heavy for 1/2 frame barrels, marked 3-15. With the 28" PSS 16 gauge barrels, the gun weighs a puny 6 pounds, 5 ounces. The less than 00 size stock is the reason for the light weights with either set of barrels. The buttplate is so small that the screws are tiny things, specially fitted to this skeleton buttplate. The Remington barrels have repair codes of RH3, DK3, KL3, and WMM3. The dates that Remington worked on the 190647 gun were November 1939, September 1941, May 1942, and August 1943. I would like to hear how Jim came upon these barrels that have such an interesting wartime history. Of the many two barrel sets I have put together from parts, this is by far the most useful bird gun.

[George M. Purtill]

Those are great repair codes Bill. Show us pictures.

[Daryl Corona]

Those are great repair codes Bill. Show us pictures.

:dh:

[Bill Murphy]

In an earlier post, I listed some of my picture credits, including Parker Pages, Double Gun Journal, Remington Society of America Journal, Ed Muderlak books, and others. Hopefully, more will be forthcoming.

[Mike Franzen]

Bill your great knowledge of all things Parker is one of the reasons this site is so valuable. Whether you post pics or not I for one am greatful for the time you invest here.

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks, Mike. Pictures or not, this is one outstanding gun. DHE two barrel set, 1/2 frame, 16 and 12, both 28" barrels, 00 size skeleton butt, Parker single trigger, weights 6-5 and 6-12. Dave Suponski provided me with the original drawings of the 1/2 frame concept dated 1930. As much time as I spent in the Arms studying Parker paper, I did not have the 1/2 frame drawings in my collection of copies. Thanks, Dave Suponski, thanks to Jim Dispagno, and thanks to Mr. Jim Martin, who offered the gun to me at the Southern Side by Side. Even more strange is my thanks to Kevin McCormack who sold me the wonderful PSS 16 gauge ejector barrels, many years ago.