Getting into papers

[Frank Srebro]

So, about two months ago I began to experiment with reloading paper shells for my vintage 12 gauge side by sides. I’ve loaded low pressure plastics for some time now but never got into papers which I feel are more traditional for vintage double guns, and besides the ejectors seem to work better with papers.

Let me start out by saying I am writing here about RELOADING empty Federal paper hulls to LOW PRESSURE (6 to 7000 psi). I will not give the powder charge weight here and please don’t ask. That data is available in reloading manuals and internet sites along with appropriate cautions and warnings by the companies that provide that info.

Once-fired Federal hulls are commonly available on the internet. I just bought 2500 empties at an average cost of 8 cents per hull including shipping.

I discovered that Federal papers would load/crimp just fine with no adjustments to my MEC 9000 that's set up for Remington Gun Club and STS hulls. Yep, I didn’t make a single adjustment to anything except for using a MEC round crimp starter instead of the 8-point starter for the Remingtons. I use Remington TGT-12 wads for 1 ounce target loads in the Remington hulls, and of course the Federals need different wads. I've been using Claybuster 2100-12’s and Federal 12SO wads made for 1 ounce. Either works well in the Federal paper hulls. Here's my first experimental run of Federal hulls reloaded to low pressure. Not bad looking.

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_2223-1_zps76290439.jpg

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_2221-1_zps5a39ba83.jpg


I wondered how many times I could load the Federals. None of my older friends who loaded papers back in the day could remember. Here’s a collage of my reloaded shells along with their crimps. On each pic the left shell is reloaded one time, then two times, then three times, and finally the right hull has been reloaded 4 times. This doesn’t include the original factory loading; therefore the right shell has actually been loaded five times.

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_2358-1_zpse81a16e9.jpg

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_2360-1_zpsfb2997c8.jpg


This next pic shows the inside walls of four shells that were reloaded 1-2-3-4 times. The apparent curvature of the left and right hulls is due to the camera lens while taking full screen supermacro pics. The walls are still in good shape on the right-most hull (loaded 5x) but the upper part that holds the crimp is getting flakey and soft. I’ve decided that four paper reloads is the limit for me with modern plastic wads.

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_2424-1_zps71fa5b64.jpg


Performance? Well the papers break clays just as well as my Remington reloads used as a control. Plus, they're somewhat softer shooting than Remingtons STS’s with the exact same charge of slow burning single-base powder (SR-7625) and with the same primers = Remington STS Premier 209's. I’ve also shot the Federal papers and Remingtons STS’s to compare against RST 2-3/4” Lite 1 ounce loads which many favor for our Foxes and Parkers. Recoil-wise my Federal paper reloads are the softest, Remington STS reloads slightly heavier, and RST’s the strongest. The RST's are 1 ounce at a listed 1150 fps and 6200 psi according to Alex at the plant.

Here’s a pic taken yesterday on one of the local sporting courses. My Parker VH 2-frame 12 gauge on the top (no name yet), alongside "Matilda" an early Fox 12 gauge CE on the bottom. Both 32-inchers..... probably not a surprise to many here. Quite a coincidence, my friend Toolman has a CE 32" Fox that's only one number off Matilda's s/n. :)

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_2420-1_zps28a59f21.jpg


The next time some of you see me at an event I’ll probably be banging away with the papers. For traditional minded members set up for shotshell reloading.... try em, you may like em.

Frank

[Bill Murphy]

Newbies should be reminded that we don't eject shells onto the ground with either paper or plastic shells when shooting expensive guns. A tube separation can destroy a gun, so we eject into our hands to insure that every shell is intact after firing. Even a modern plastic shell can go beyond the forcing cone if a separation occurs in a large bore gun like a Super Fox or older Parker with larger than nominal dimension bore. I will let Frank explain base wad separations and their possible consequences.

[David Holes]

I have shot fed. papers for years and love them. When the top gets flakey, the base gets week. paper burns thin and casing will crumple under pressure when loading. 3-4 reloads is about all you can expect, but I enjoy shooting them also. The aroma after shooting is amazing.

[Chuck Bishop]

Frank,

Your reloads look great! I just bought 500 Federal papers from a guy in Florida, it cost $41.00 plus shipping. There is nothing like shooting Federal papers in vintage guns. The fired hull smell brings back so many memories. Like perfume on a beautiful woman.

You'll have to experiment with how many reloads you'll get per hull. It's usually 3 to 4 before they start to pinhole at the base or the mouths get too soft. I think some of it depends on the amount of powder/shot/wads you use and the pressure that is developed.

I usually use Clay Dot but I've been told that Red Dot simulates the old smell so I bought 1 lb just to try. I haven't reloaded any using Red Dot yet, just Clay Dot. The smell isn't bad. I use Fed 209 primers and Downrange 12S0 clones for 7/8 and 1 oz loads.

Hope to see you at my shoot on April 6th in Hbg.

[Frank Srebro]

I've shot many, many 12 gauge reloads and never had a base wad separation or part of the hull come off and lodge in the bore. But I have seen it happen. I was standing to the rear of a young sporting shooter one time, he was using a Beretta 390 gas gun. Several of the reports sounded really loud and I asked him to look at the gun. The barrel was split probably 5" long on the left forward side of the forend and the wood had a chunk missing. The young man's father claimed he was shooting factory shells, not reloads. I don't want to mention the brand here but they were econo shells and had a paper base wad. We looked for the ejected shell to confirm the base wad had come out but there were a thousand or so there on the ground and we couldn't find it. Anyway, I mark every reload whether plastic or paper on the base with dykem, and discard the plastics after 5 reloads and the papers after 4 reloads. Hulls with separate base wads can become detached, it is very very rare IME but as Bill says it's good practice to look at the spent shells for partial hull separations, and also look down the barrels after every shooting cycle and before reloading.

Yep Chuck I plan to be at Blue Ridge pending nothing coming up with the family, etc. And I'll pump it up on the Fox site, adding to your post there. Frank

[Dave Suponski]

Frank and All. Thank you for this great tutorial. If I ever get in the mind to start reloading papers I have good info to start with. Frank my Plastic reloads are the same as your but I use a Winchester primer and PB powder. The PB burns as clean as SR 7625 but is a few bucks cheaper here.

[Fred Preston]

For those into oldtimey, outhouse, aroma, I suggest 3dr of FFG with an ounce of shot in the paper hull.

[Paul Harm]

Just what I've read on another reloading forum - Federal paper shells have the habit of leaking around the primer. Don't know if that's true - just a word of caution. Also, they have paper base wads that can come loose and lodge in the barrel. Another reason to check your barrels every time you shoot. And if you want to reload em really correct, use fiber wads from www.circlefly.com . And as Bill recommended, use some smoke - man, those really smell good. I just picked up a bag bigger than I'll ever use of Federal papers for $10. What a deal. Paul

[Paul Harm]

Frank, there's a couple of threads about paper shells - go back some pages [ page 7 ]and you'll find them - quite interesting.

[Frank Srebro]

More experimenting today. There was a small sporting clays tournament at a local club and although I didn't enter the tournament, my friends and I shot the same menu and my VH ended up only 2 birds behind the winner..... 85/100 and the winner had 87 with a Guerini o/u. These paper reloads can shoot. Today I was using "PB" powder behind 1 ounce of 8's. One of my friends brought me about 1/4 pound of Red Dot and I'll try that for the next batch of papers. The reloads with PB smell nice but the consensus of my buds is the ones with 7625 powder smell more like the old time papers when shot. VH had her 12 gauge/32-inch barrel on today. Barrel is choked 25 and 40 points. She sure raised some eyebrows on the tourney shooters while on the course, and especially so when we came in with her scorecard showing 85.

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_2451_zps3864394f.jpg

[charlie cleveland]

very good looking crimps and a fine score to boot..can it get any better i say no... charlie

[mike covington]

Well done Frank. Got to get me some papers and see how they perform with Clays.

I still say it's the indian more so than the arrow. :bowdown:

[Daryl Corona]

Nice shooting Frank. Guess you showed them fancy- pants what a real man's gun could do.:)

[john pulis]

I have loaded several hundred Federal papers and they have all shot well and broke clays as well as plastic hulls. Five reloadings has been my experience. The best aroma has been with Bullseye and SR 7625. PB, Claydot, and American Select smell nice but not as nice as the aforementioned. The aroma of paper seems to complement their use in vintage guns. The problem is locating a good supply.

[Frank Srebro]

Even more experimenting with the paper shells. Today I shot a batch of Federals loaded with Red Dot powder. 1 ounce loads with CB2100-12 wads and Remington primers loaded to about 7,000 psi. Probably many here know that Red Dot is a double base powder, as compared with IMR PB and SR-7625 which are single base.

So today my gang confirmed the smell of the fired papers with Red Dot is pretty close to factory loaded Federals which I used as a control in a modern o/u also shot today. Funny story, a young gal drove up and watched as we were shooting the last two stations. She works for a natural gas company putting in another pipeline on the course, and it was priceless seeing her look as we all toked the fired hulls. I tried to explain the nostalgic aspect but I fear it went over her head. Anyway the Federals with Red Dot have the least amount of “smoke” when the breech is opened, more with the PB loaded shells, and those loaded with 7625 the most. I’ll probably stick with 7625 because it’s the softest shooting of the three powders for the same ~ 1150 fps velocity. Plus I like that smoke when I open her up.

Two pics taken today. It was a nice balmy 22 degrees when we hit the course this morning. That’s my 12 gauge CE Fox “Matilda” on the rack along with a bud’s Beretta gas gun. Second pic is a close up of my gal.

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_2459_zps0198d494.jpg

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_2465_zps8c202ea4.jpg

[Dave Suponski]

Great info Frank thank you. Where were you guys shooting..Ernies?

[Frank Srebro]

Dave, we were shooting at Rock Mountain today, a very nice commercial course. I'm sure you know it's nearby Ernie's.