Anyone into drillings?

[KCordell]

Just curious as I finally got mine back from my now retired gunsmith. I waited four plus years...almost forgot about it. She now has all new springs, hinge pin and a new rifle firing pin. Made in 1930 and is in 16x16x 8x57IR also with original Hensoldt Dialytan. I can't wait to take it to the field next year!!!!


http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn128/code337/D18CDE2C-9C8F-4162-9804-8D4FCC9DDD76-5280-00000462C79DF52A_zps8f1c4da0.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn128/code337/965C3BA4-A538-483E-ACED-8E96EE863C4D-5844-000004CF22A1559E_zps28c2a192.jpg

[Rick Losey]

nice - is the scope the same vintage?

[E Robert Fabian]

I'm not into them yet, have been looking for a couple years now. I want a 27" 16 ga. with a rifle caliber that is sufficient for white tails, the flip up sits suit me. I hunt New Brunswick and can just imagine one of those 250 lb bucks standing there watching me as I'm bird hunting. It's also a fitting gun to go with my versatile hunting dog..Deutsch Drahthaar

[KCordell]

Yes, the scope is the mate to this gun. It even has its original leather case.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn128/code337/3E143E09-2BEF-494B-8757-793FB5A7DBEC-5844-000004CF295D34FD_zps962f229c.jpg

[charlie cleveland]

these old drillings are really the most useful gun one would ever want.. i have griffen drilling that has also the scope attachments..its a 16x16x57r...this thing will drop any thing i put the cross hairs on..what gets me is how light these guns are...youve got a very nice gun there you will like it more ever hunt you take it on...mine got 3 deer this year and 2 bobcats... charlie

[KCordell]

Charlie, love to see a picture. Greifelt are fantastic drillings!

[John Mazza]

http://C:\Documents and Settings\Jmazza\Desktop\EMail to Dan\Misc. pictures 010.jpgHere's my drilling:

[charlie cleveland]

that a beauty youve got there...what is the configuration of your drilling.... charlie

[John Mazza]

It's 16 x 16 (of course) over 9.3x72R. No maker's name, just a dealer's name on the rib.

It's a very petite gun. A joy to carry indeed ! The shotgun bores are pitted all to hell, but I'm a foolish sort & actually shoot it with RST ammo. Loading for the rifle is tough, as the bore slugs out to approx. 0.359 (not the 0.366 of the normalized cartridge dimensions.) One of these days (very soon) I'll get suitable loading dies (possibly 35 Whelen, with the 0.358 expander, and I'll only neck-size the cases). I've actually loaded 0.359 and 0.360 cast bullets from Montana Bullet Works (by hand, with a rubber mallet !!!! ...using properly sized cases that came with the gun) over a case full of 2F black powder, and it shot pretty good. (...considering the primitive/half-ass bullet seating method !).

[charlie cleveland]

the 9.3x72 r is a very good round...i see a few on the gun broker ammo site every once in a while...ilike those hammer guns i had one in the same caliber as you had and foolishly traded it off.... charlie

[John Mazza]

They say it's similar to the 38-55, which I know to be a very good round. (I used to load for that caliber for my M. 1894 Winchester. Very accurate !)

I'll never trade this gun, even though it's tired & worn (just like me !)

[KCordell]

I think 9.3x72r is a great round. I have one other (hammer) drilling in this caliber. I have used in Texas for pig and quail. S&B, Sellier & Bellot still make this round and can be bought easily in the US.

[Russ Jackson]

This is my Miller & Val Greiss Drilling " Recently Purchased " it is a 24 Gauge and ,8x57/360 Caliber ,a" As a side note ,I figured that out with the Wonderful Help from one of our Members ,Edgar Spencer ! " Thanks again Edgar ,I now have a Zeiss Diatal Scope for it and the Gun weighs in a little under 6# and shoots 1/2 " Groups at 60 yards ,it is a real hoot to shoot ! Very seldom do I purchase a Gun or anything else on a whim ,but this one really caught me and I made an offer and ended up with it ,I am very glad I did ,I really enjoy it ! I now have it cased in a nice 3 Barrel ,canvas and leather case , it has a set of 410 Full length Briley tubes also ! The case gives me room for the gun itself ,Tubes also a compartment for the scope ! I haven't the time this morning but will take a few pictures later in the case and post ! Best ; Russ

[John Mazza]

Russ - nice gun !!!!!

I love these old drillings ! I wish I could just shoot the S&B ammo out of mine, but I fear it may be a bit too "hot." My gun only bears black powder proofs on the rifle barrel. Plus, an old RWS round that I bought at a gun show fits fine...except for the rim, which is a little too thick. (I can't close the gun on this round.) I wish my gun had the "normalized" chambering...

[Russ Jackson]

Thank You ; I have to keep this short ,I am on my way out the door here ,but I needed to have RCBS make me a set of dies and again Thanks to Edgar , he took much time and walked me through what I needed to do to have Ammo to shoot this gun ,but my Proofs are good for more modern loads , and I have no idea why exactly but I just love this old Gun ! Russ

[John Mazza]

That's probably what I should do (have custom dies made). {Were they terribly expensive ???} My biggest problem is finding cast bullets of the optimal diameter. (I need a cast bullet of no more than 200 - 210 grains, with a sized diameter of 0.361 - 0.362). Montana Bullets cannot size to more than 0.360, and that's only for their heavier bullets (245 gr. and up)... I may have to just be satisfied with the 0.359 200 grain bullets.

[Russ Jackson]

Good Morning John ,sorry so long in answering your post ,just got back to my computer ! The Dies weren't exactly cheap but didn't break the Bank either ! I had $165.00 Plus Shipping , they are very nice and work great ,took about six weeks to receive them ! One thing ,RCBS told me they will only make custom dies on a caliber that has already been ordered before ,they just can't put the finances or time in sitting up for totally new manufacture ,I was told the memo came down the day I ordered my Die Set ,mine had been ordered before so I had no problems getting them ! Best ; Russ

[John Mazza]

Thanks Russ !

I should contact them & see if they can help me out.

[Dave Tercek]

These three barrel guns are interesting. I picked this Hollenbeck up about 15yrs ago.
I have yet to shoot it. It has two 12g Krupp barrels with a 32-20 rifle barrel. Everything is in great condition except at sometime in it's history someone put a scope on it. Take a look.

[KCordell]

Wow, that's a nice piece...for sure one of their higher end guns. Would be a hoot to shoot!

[KCordell]

Per 9.3x72r, I had the same dilemma regarding an older hammer drilling I have chambered in this caliber. I met a few of the folks from the German gun collectors at the vintagera event a few years back and was told that S&B loads this caliber down suspecting that people will be firing them in older guns. I have fired in mine with great success. I am not suggesting you do so only that it has worked fine for me. It's a great cartridge...

[Russ Jackson]

Hey Dave ,Nice Gun ! You need to get her out shooting ,I really get a kick out of mine ,too bad we don't have over lapping Grouse and Deer here in Pa. ,I figure I could use mine in Bear season and also do a little Grouse hunting at the same time ! That is when I see most of the Grouse I find any way ! Russ

[Dave Tercek]

I'm not even sure what a 32-20 looks like. What would it compare to in modern ammo ??

[edgarspencer]

I'm not even sure what a 32-20 looks like. What would it compare to in modern ammo ??

32-20 is .32WCF, still loaded and not remotely considered obsolete.
I'm down to one drilling and it's going to Baltimore this weekend. It's perhaps one of the finest of more than 3 dozen I've had.
two I sort of miss were Krieghoffs. One was a boxlock 20x20x.22 Hornet, and the other was a tiny hammer 28x28x 25-35 Winchester.

[Russ Jackson]

I have been really busy lately but have finally had time to get the Drilling Cased up just the way I want it :),thought you Drilling Guys may like to get a look ! I purchased a Three Barrel Canvas and Leather Case from Jeffs outfitters and fit the Gun itself ,Barrels ,Full length Briley 410 Tubes , Zeiss Diatal Scope Ammo etc ! All I am missing is a nice Glass Oil Bottle and 24 Ga. Snap Caps but eventually will add these to the cased Drilling when I locate them ! Russ

[KCordell]

Wow! That looks great! Nice job. I think I may try to do the same.

[Russ Jackson]

Thank You ,I think the case was around $269.00 Or so and I have been laying Oak Hardwood Flooring so I trimmed up some scrap pieces to 1/4 " made a couple partitions and used the extra felt that came with the case to cover it ,I like things neat so I enjoy these little projects ,keeps me involved in my gun hobby without a lot of expense and makes them look special !

[Dave Tercek]

Nice job Russ, Now we know what you do with all of your spare time.
Dave

[charlie cleveland]

mighty nice set up there russ...should be a fine grouse gun and hey if a deer or bear gets in the way heh your ready...i love those drillings....charlie

[John Mazza]

Russ: Looks fantastic !

Were any modifications to your gun needed to fit the Briley tubes ?

[Russ Jackson]

Thank You John , to be honest ,I had the tubes laying in the Gun Safe for years ,they came from a 28 Ga. ,VHE Parker I purchased years ago from Steve Barnett . I traded the 28 for a couple of really nice D Grades and some cash to a friend , "' He knew I couldn't hit anything with it "" and when he took ownership of the 28 He didn't want the 410 Tubes even though they were custom made for it ,said He would never use them , to just keep them ! Any way every small bore I have purchased since then with short barrels ,I try them in and believe it or not they fit this gun as if I sent the gun out to Briley to have them fit ! With all that said ,No I didn't do a thing ,of course the ejectors on the tubes don't eject but fit the gun perfectly and ride nicely on the extractors with no chance of slipping down into the chamber ! Russ

[Jeff Christie]

I have a wonderful JP Sauer 3000 Lux drilling. It is 16/70 x 16/70 x 7/76R. It has a Kahles 3x9x42 scope. I used it hunting in Germany and Luxembourg for 7 years. Awesome weapon. The 7x65R is the rimmed version of the 7x64 Brenneke and of '06 capabilities. It would flatten a boar. I killed many boars, countless Reh (Roe deer), and a few fox with it while stationed in Germany. Great fun. If you are new into drillings I recommend go with a 16x16x7x57R or bigger calibre. Avoid 12s. They are often somewhat clubby in feeling and swing and are heavier than the 16s.

[John Mazza]

Jeff:

Do you have any pictures of your drilling ?

[Jeff Christie]

The short answer is no.

The longer answer is - Some where I have a few black and whites I made for an insurance policy of upgraded custom engraving and inlay work I had done to it. The gun was actually a gift to my 1 yr old son from a very aged old friend. I got it in 1973 or early 74. It is buried so deep in the safe I'd have a hard time getting it all back in. (There is a message there- time to sell some stuff as come) Besides I don't know how to get pictures from a digital camera or cell phone onto the web site. It is a very pretty gun. The wood is well figured and contrasts light and dark as I remember. The checkering is very ordinary. The receiver is "Frenched" and I had a wonderful boar inlaid in the bottom of the receiver by Werner Schuch (a pal of my father's from his days in Wiesbaden). I wish it were a 7x57R as JP Sauer made them with shorter barrels. The 7x65R barrels are 65 cm long as I remember while the 7x57Rs were several cm's shorter (63.5??). It is an incredibly accurate gun for its type as the barrel is stiffened by the pair of 16 barrels over it. It would be a wonderful gun to hunt where you might run into a deer (and rifles are permitted). I am thinking of using it to hunt grouse in the North Woods of Wisconsin as there has been a drastic and dangerous increase in wolf populations. Two #1 buckshot loads and a 7/65R would be a good dose of life and dog insurance. I guess I could use it here as we have a lot of coyotes. They aren't much of a danger as they are so shy. Not so wolves.

[John Mazza]

It sounds really nice !

If you ever do get any pictures, folks on this site can help you upload them.

[ed good]

here are pictures and description of mystery drilling:

SAUER? CUSTOM ENGRAVED? THIS IS A WONDERFUL EXAMPLE OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE AN EARLY THIRTIES VINTAGE J.P. SAUER DRILLING, EXCEPT: THE WORD SAUER DOES NOT APPEAR ANYWHERE. AND THE FULL SCROLL ENGRAVINGS ON THE RECEIVER AND TRIGGER GUARD ARE NOT TYPICAL OF GERMAN STYLE ENGRAVING PATTERNS. THE BARRELS ARE 23 3/4" LONG. THE SHOTGUN BORES ARE 12 GAUGE WITH 2 3/4" CHAMBERS. THE RIFLE BARREL IS 8X57JR. WEIGHT IS 7 1/2 POUNDS. SERIAL #281XXX. OUTSTANDING FIT, FINISH AND WORKMANSHIP. HAVE NEVER SEEN ONE LIKE THIS BEFORE. ANY INPUT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

[edgarspencer]

Ed, the butt plate isn't anything like I've ever seen on a Sauer. I'm guessing It is a Simpson. Very pretty gun.

[John Mazza]

I think that is a typical "Sauer und Sohn" logo on the buttplate. I'll check my books later to verify...

[KCordell]

It's a correct Sauer & Sohn plate. Gun looks great!

[Bill Murphy]

Ed, will a magnet stick to the receiver? It looks like a Dural Sauer. Really nice gun in a rare configuration.

[ed good]

bill: a magnet does stick to the receiver...googled dural sauer. very interesting use of non ferrous alloy. got the impression that dural is a fairly late development?

[Bill Murphy]

Your gun should have a date code on it.

[John Mazza]

German makers were using it for a while, at least back to the 1930's...

Post some close-up pictures of all of teh numbers/markings on the underside of the barrels. Like Bill said, a date code should appear. (IE: 8.27 or 8/27 would mean proof in August of 1927).

[Bill Murphy]

My Sauer hammer driller is 16X16X11.15X65. I shoot .410s out of the bottom barrel. It's a great little gun.

[ed good]

unfortunately, date code is not there. only the number 33 is visible. if this is sauer sourced gun, then 1933 fits with the serial number range...

[KCordell]

My Sauer hammer driller is 16X16X11.15X65. I shoot .410s out of the bottom barrel. It's a great little gun.

Does it look like this Bill? I havent shot 410 yet. Can you shoot 410 slug?

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn128/code337/pix1488483218.jpg (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/code337/media/pix1488483218.jpg.html)

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn128/code337/Muzzle.jpg (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/code337/media/Muzzle.jpg.html)

[KCordell]

unfortunately, date code is not there. only the number 33 is visible. if this is sauer sourced gun, then 1933 fits with the serial number range...

Can you post a picture of the underside of the barrel? I can help.

[Bill Murphy]

My Sauer looks like the pictured gun, side lever to open, top lever to select. I have not tried a .410 slug.

[John Mellinger]

May favorite turkey gun happens to be a drilling given to me by my father. He acquired it from one of his old turkey hunting buddies years ago. 16x16x219 zipper, hammerless. Nicely engraved, cartridge trap, light for a drilling and topped with a 1.5x5 Leupold varixIII. A turkey killing machine!!!

[KCordell]

bill: a magnet does stick to the receiver...googled dural sauer. very interesting use of non ferrous alloy. got the impression that dural is a fairly late development?

Ed,

I saw the picture of your gun on the site you sent. I could not see a date on the bottom but I think it is pre-war based on some of the other markings.

[ed good]

k: input from a variety of sources seems to support the following scenario:

- gun was made by sauer in the mid thirties

- receiver was engraved and perhaps restocked in Belgium

will never know for sure...

[KCordell]

Drilling entheusiest... Brenneke came out w new release... 16ga 2.5" slug for vintage combination or drillings... may.be a limited run...not sure.. bought a bunch just in case. Perfect for deer... cant wait!

Son and I are out for a hopeful test run...

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn128/code337/20131130_153513_zps843d598f.jpg

[charlie cleveland]

lovely looking pair of drillings..i have a griffen drilling its got 2 3/4 inch chambers and like yours has the quick detachable scope mount. i really like that option...mine also has a 22 magnum insert on the right side barrelthat also shoots to point of aim with the scope... my gun is a 16x22 magx7x54 r..the drillings are amazeing guns... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Those are two beautiful drillers. My old Sauer gave up "pretty" many years ago. However, I sure like the hammers and the three barrels of shotgun capability. When shooting preserve birds, I select the lower .410 barrel, cock and shoot. Recock and move lever to the left to shoot the two 16 gauge barrels. It happens way quicker than you think. A successful .410 shot on a big cockbird always draws attention from your partner. It is an interesting routine to practice on a skeet field, although I don't think I've ever done it. Your puller sends a single, then a slow report pair of doubles. I have shot skeet with a mix of 16s and .410s though. Unfortunately, you have to move the top lever between shots on doubles.

[edgarspencer]

Bill, That reminds me of the day I took out my Otto Geiger, made by Merkel, with my dad. A nice plump cock went up and all I heard was 'click'. Instinctively, I pushed the selector forward, from years of double gun shooting.
My dad got the bird and all I got was a ribbing.
I assume you're shooting the .410s out of the 11mm barrel. Are they plastic wad .410s?

[John Dallas]

Bill's technique sounds only slightly more difficult than rubbing your belly and patting your head

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, the .410s are shot out of the 11.15MM barrel and they are plastic wad shells from my PW800.

[edgarspencer]

I also shot 44WCF out of my 11.15 barrel with pretty good accuracy. Kinda like shooting CB caps out of a long rifle chamber.

[KCordell]

Hmmmm... Can you shoot 410 slug in 11.15? I have the 11.15x65r in a hammer sauer as well. Never tried shooting the rifle.

Edgar, any particulars on the 44-40 you can share?

[John Mazza]

Where did you buy the slugs ?

Thanks.

[KCordell]

here is a link to a listing of the distributors.

http://www.germanguns.com/upload/showthread.php?847-News-from-Brenneke-USA-65mm-(2-1-2-quot-)-16ga-Classic-Slugs

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww69/Buchseman/BrennekeDistributorList_zps28c8feb3.jpg

[John Mazza]

Thanks !

These will be great out of my combination gun !

[edgarspencer]

Hmmmm... Can you shoot 410 slug in 11.15? I have the 11.15x65r in a hammer sauer as well. Never tried shooting the rifle.

Edgar, any particulars on the 44-40 you can share?

The 11/15x60R, used in drillings and combination guns, is a straight tapered case,(probably Collath in origin)not the same as the 11.15x60R Mauser, which is a bottleneck case.
The mauser cartridge uses .439" bullet, but the straight tapered case use a .453" bullet.
The .44WCF drops right in, and because its a very short bullet, it doesn't tumble. The bullet is much smaller than the 11.15, so don't expect bench rest accuracy, it's just a good, 50 yard plinker. I never tried 44 Special, and don't remember the dimensions.
11.15x60R straights are made by trimming and fire-forming 9.3x74R cases.
Lyman makes a .453 mold, and I used soft lead only, no tin or antimony. Lots of people use linotype (or used to use it) but it's way to hard for old barrels. I only worked up one smokeless load, but 60 grains of ff is about what the original was loaded with.
Nontes book gives many of these conversions.

[edgarspencer]

I would check your chokes, especially in the left barrel before using slugs. They are often tighter than a bull's @$$.
I wouldn't shoot .410 slugs in the 11.15x 60mm barrel, only because they are very much smaller than the bore, and soft and may lead the hell out of the gun.

[KCordell]

I would check your chokes, especially in the left barrel before using slugs. They are often tighter than a bull's @$$.
I wouldn't shoot .410 slugs in the 11.15x 60mm barrel, only because they are very much smaller than the bore, and soft and may lead the hell out of the gun.

Depends on the gun. Those pictured are f/m and the other is a little more open..cant remember but as you state some are extra full in the left which I personally wouldn't shoot. I would certainly heed your thoughts and check before use.

agree with the slug on the 410... thanks for the reply.