What would you order?

[Eldon Goddard]

I was reading the thread about Cliff Greens Parkers and it got me wondering what I would order if I had been around back then. I think the best return on your investment would be low grade sub gauges. Knowing myself I would probably order something rediculous like a grade 7 8 gauge or a 7 frame 12 gauge. Well if you had a time machine and a big hunk of vintage cash what would you order?

[Rick Losey]

The reason small bores are valuable now is that they were ordered less then.

I doubt many, even the higher grades were bought as investments

[edgarspencer]

D grades. Every possible configuration, in all gauges.

[Ray Masciarella]

I'm with Edgar in that I would need more than one!

16 ga, 1 frame, D6, 30" with the nicest wood in stock. The floor plate would have to be engraved with something cool, not the three stag stuff.

10ga, 2 frame, B5 (wouldn't that be cool), 32" with wild turkeys on floor plate.

8 ga, big frame, B4, 36" with ducks on floor plate.

How much money do I have? Can I keep buying!

[Bruce Day]

The big hunk of vintage cash is the sticking point, seeing as how a really finely made Parker AHE 28ga is still being made today, with few takers. Most people today have more disposable income than they did in the time Parkers were being made in Meriden and Ilion. My first job as a second lieutenant, I started at $6500/year in 1969 and thought I was doing well over contemporaries. Now what is that, a couple weeks income for many still working?

Still, its pleasant to consider. If you look at the production figures, 12ga guns were way more popular than small bores, popularity decreasing with bore size, but there were a significant amount of mid to high grade small bores that seemed to have been bought by knowledgeable sportsmen. Some of those had details that I think were likely specified.

So, assuming I had the money, $125 back then, a lot, I'd still get a C small bore. And I'm fortunate to have gathered exactly what I wanted, from top, CHE 20, CHE 16, CHE 16, with PG, 28", standard weight, SSBP, DT's, splinter forend, in 1904-5 fine scroll engraving detail, as these are. But I'm missing that 20ga Bernard, none found yet, so I'd order one in 26" game gun, tapered rib, long lever, ribbed safety slide and specify not only early century engraving style, but additional engraving details on the frame, butt plate and TG, and upgraded PG French walnut. Of course a 16ga Bernard top action hammer would be nice too if i could put together another $125, a month's pay for many. Too bad none were made.

[chris dawe]

I'm close on Bruce's heels,mine would be a C grade deep relief style engraveing ,16 bore on a #1 frame ,two barrel set 30" (f&m)for ptarmigan and 27" ( none&sk) for old ruff , double triggers ,extractors,pow grip, skeleton butt,14 1/2 lop,2 3/4 at heel,

I'm getting excited ,I can't wait till it gets here!!!

[Jared Valeski]

:pI'd probably order a vent rib Damascus GHE 12 guage with 32" barrels, double triggers and a splinter FE.....

[edgarspencer]

So, assuming I had the money, $125 back then, a lot, I'd still get a C small bore. Yeah, What was I thinking? I'd get high grade small bores too. Probably a few of those elusive 28s, maybe a .410 for that still-hoped-for grandson



How much money do I have? Can I keep buying! As much as you want, Ray. We're only dreaming here, so dream like you robbed a bank.

Bruce, you're a bigger man than me. Plus you've got all those pheasants, so 2 frames are what you need. Out here, all I hunt anymore is upland, so I need to conserve calories for climbing over scrub, not carrying iron. I will admit, the tubes on my dream guns would be longer than what was in style 10 years ago.
Back to reality, I'd be struggling to save enough to buy a Trojan. If my Governor keeps it up, even that would be too elusive.

[Bruce Day]

You have the wrong guy, Edgar. I am almost exclusively a prairie game hunter, and prefer a well choked #1 frame, 28" 16ga for pheasant and prairie grouse. A #2 frame 12 gets a bit much for me to carry all day.

After over a foot of snow on the ground and still coming, I hope the pheasant make it. The grouse, buffalo and antelope always survive as long as we preserve the habitat and the wild places. I have had the privilege to hunt birds where you see buffalo and antelope, no fence posts or telephone poles, few roads and no other hunters. Its like stepping back over 100 years.

[Ray Masciarella]

Ok Edgar, then add to may order an AAH grade Top Action in 20 ga damascus 28" barrels.

When do we send our orders in? Can we just order them over the internet so they get it quickly?

[charlie cleveland]

i would order a ph grade 8 ga with 48 inch barrels of fluid steel with 4 inch chambers... a 10 gauge d h grade with 36 inch barrels and 3 1/2 inch chambers and steel barrels...and for the kids a a 1 special 410 with 32 inch barrels...and and and..... charlie

[Gerald McPherson]

I'll bet Charlie doesn't weigh 120 lbs soaking wet.

[E Robert Fabian]

If it is only one gun it would be a AA small bore lifter 16ga on small frame with Bernard barrels 28" to 30" tubes lightly choked with ball grip.:)

[George M. Purtill]

Time Machine huh?
I like this.
I'm going down to A&F on Madison Avenue this afternoon. I am gonna wander around on the first floor, look at all the dead animals. Then I'm taking a deep breath and telling the elevator attendant who probably looks like the friendliest guy on earth, to take me to the 7th floor.
After I look over the rediculous racks of English guns I head straight to the Parkers. The salesman approaches.
I'll place my order: 28 gauge DHE skeet gun, 28 inch barrels, double triggers, BTFE, engrave name plate "GMP", include VC case with accessories, same initials on case. How much would it cost for an extra set of 20 gauge barrels?, I ask.

[Chuck Bishop]

Just send me your money along with the order. I have the Order Books and some blank pages so I will be happy to enter your order. Just be prepared to wait for the finished product. These guns are hand finished so it may take some time until you receive the gun.

Please no phone calls asking when your gun will be shipped:nono:

[Jerry Parise]

Not looking at this thread as a wish list I think in order to play this very interesting game correctly we must put ourselves in the mindset of a hunter of the period. I think that with our earning power of the time we would probably be ordering Trojans or V grades with the odd person ordering something a bit higher in grade. With my present earning capacity I would probably be ordering a 12 ga. VH with 30" barrels choked mod and full. I would forgo the ejectors as a cost savings and probably go with a round knob grip just because I like them.

[Bruce Day]

[quote=George M. Purtill;98531]Time Machine huh?
I like this.
I'm going down to A&F on Madison Avenue this afternoon.....]


While I am not an easterner, I remember going into the A&F on Union Square in San Francisco as a boy and walking around in wonderment and thinking "maybe someday". That was before it became part of The Gap and a place for urban gender ambiguity and pseudo stylish edginess. I also remember being on the Hollister ranch and hunting quail when old man Hollister was a tough old horse riding cattleman of land grant heritage and well before his name lived on the butt of teen aged girls hotpants.

[Bill Murphy]

When I first went into the wonderland that was the seventh floor at Abercrombie and Fitch in 1960, when I was about 14, there were two aged Parkers on the floor racks. They were both Whitworth barrelled Pigeon Guns. They were both brown and worn, the ejector gun more brown and more worn than the non ejector gun. The extractor gun was priced at $650, and the ejector gun was priced at $600. In my youthful opinion, neither were worth another thought. I don't remember coming out of the store that first day with any catalogs, but I put myself on the mailing list, and when I got the predated 1961 Used Gun catalog in the mail, there they were, still for sale, with details. I had never picked them up in the store, but I dogeared the catalog over the years going back and looking at them in print. The floor racks were free for gun handling, even for 14 year olds. My first trip to the store was by myself, but before that New York trip was over, I dragged Dad up there for a look. Now that I revisit our old catalogs, I find that my Dad's name is on some, mine on others. I guess we were both on the mailing list. Today, I would have a hard time explaining to my grandchildren how a 14 year old was turned loose to wander the streets of Manhattan with a notebook full of gun store addresses and a verbal tutorial of how to navigate the New York street system. I have another story about my teenage adventures on the seventh floor, one I have probably told here before, but I will save it for another time.

[John Truitt]

34" D grade hammer gun in 28 ga titanic barrels round know with gold cap overall wieght 7 3/4 to 8 pounds balance pinot one inch in front of hinge pin choked full and full.
Maybe with a matching D grade hammerless (sans safetly and DT no ejector of course) if funds would allow. BTW would request reinforced forearm lug for both even though they would both be splinter forearms.
Maybe scroll engraving only with no game scenes.

[Mills Morrison]

One of the coolest orders is the Seward Webb order : B Grade 8 gauge hammer gun, AH 10 gauge and AH 12 gauge. To that, I would add a 20 and 28 gauge for quail hunting. I am flexible about grade for the 20 and 28, but G grade or above.

[allen newell]

I would order one of every grade in 16 ga 28" bbls, mod/improv. Take me away

[Rich Anderson]

Having always hunted upland birds I would go for any graded 20ga or 28ga that I could afford. Straight stock, splinter forarm & of course SSBP. IF money were no object thaen these would be A-1 specials but of course. IF I could go back in time I'd like to convince my Grandmother that I was coming and I would be a shooter and a fan of the Parker Gun and PLEASE don't give Grandpa's trap gun away.

[charlie cleveland]

just weihged in at the v a clinic this morning i weighed 218 with coat on......and ive put in another order with parker brothers to see if they will make me a 4 ga with 4 inch chambers and 40 inch barrels... charlie

[Eldon Goddard]

If a man can dream. I guess I would ask for a 12 gauge paradox. A parker paradox now that would be something to see.

[Bruce Day]

Well I have previously posted photos of a Parker built set , C grade, one set of barrels rifled 12ga, the other set smoothbore 12's.

[Bill Murphy]

Mills, we first saw the Seward Webb eight gauge in 1974 when it appeared in the Larry Baer book. Twenty four years later, we found the other two guns while copying the Parker records at Ilion. What a surprise it was to find out that the eight gauge was actually a trio of big guns. The story of Seward Webb and his life was written in a Smithsonian article years ago. It is a very interesting article about Webb and his life and times. Is there a Parker Pages or DGJ article about these guns? Where did you learn about them?

[greg conomos]

Without a dollar limit a question like this does not have a lot of merit.

I guess I'd go with the grade that is above the Invincible, a 00 frame in 30" 28 gauge with a matched set of 28" .410 barrels, deep early style floral engraving with no animals, gold, lightning bolts, or other such trappings in 14.5" LOP straight stock with a beavertail FE on the 28 ga tubes and a splinter on the .410's.

[Mills Morrison]

Bill, I saw the 8 gauge in Baer's book and the 10 (I think) in TPS. I would love to see all three in person someday. At least I would like to see some better photos of the 8. It seems early high grade hammer guns really laid on the engraving and you find a different scene every time you look at the gun. At least that is true of a few I have seen. I thought that was a cool order and I wonder what Dr. Webb shot with these guns?

[Bill Murphy]

I have spent some time on google with Dr. Webb, but have not found any mention of guns. Still looking. I looked at the Webb gun on page 692 of TPS. I forgot it was there. I have a copy of the order in my files and enjoy looking at it occasionally. Looked at it today. I'll get a reference on the Smithsonian article for those who would like to look at it.

[Kenny Graft]

I would order a BHE 0 frame two barrel set 16 with 28" sk1/light mod ,28" IC/XF PG-DT SF 6lbs-4oz rooster and grouse gun! The only shotgun I would ever need! ....In todays dollars made like they did in the day it would cost 45,000.00 (-:

[Craig Larter]

I love to shoot ducks!! So my order would be for a AHE 12ga 30" F/XF straight stock, 14 1/4" x 2 1/2"x1 1/2" # 3 frame, Silvers Pad, Lab with a mallard in flight on the trigger plate, English scroll on the side of the action with Parker in a banner. Oh yea!!

[Dave Noreen]

I'm with George, but I'd order the 20-gauge and .410-bore Skeet Guns as well, and I'd want ventilated ribs on my Skeet Guns!!

[Mills Morrison]

Thinking about what I might realistically buy, check out this D Grade 8 gauge hammergun which was on an old Shotgunworld post. If not this gun, then an early Grade 2 hammerless 8 gauge in the early engraving style

http://s561.beta.photobucket.com/user/martyd_bucket/library/Damascus%20Shotgun/#/user/martyd_bucket/library/Damascus%20Shotgun?&_suid=136201220138905782521267554755

[Dean Romig]

Keeping in mind that we have a fine time machine at our beck and call, I would order a Parker Bros. shotgun with features and appointments from several of the most desirable eras of Parker history.
My choice would be a lifter with a straight hand grip and and splinter forend made of the richest marbled French walnut. The checkering would be a tight precise 28 LPI in the style of the Grade 5 and the forend would not be fully checkered. It would have the 1878 patented forend latch, and a skeleton steel butt plate engraved to complement the Grade 6 specially ordered engraving on the frame, lock plates and hammers. Oh, incidentally, the hammers would be of the most elaborate scuplting with that attractive extra spur above the screw. The gun would be built on the 00 frame size and would be finished off with 28" black and white Damascus barrels in 28 gauge with the names Bonasa Umbellis and Scolopax Minor woven into the matrix. It would weigh exactly 6 lbs., 5 oz. and would balance 1/2" forward of the pin. The chokes would be open and improved cylinder and the rib would sport a pair of ivory beads.... and I would hunt that gun every day of the season for the rest of my life.

Dammit... I just pinched myself and didn't feel a thing :rolleyes:

[George M. Purtill]

Ahhhhhhh. 28 gauge Parker hammer gun. REM material for sure. Put the hookah away Deano.

[Daryl Corona]

Consecutive S/N, straight grip, B grade hammer guns, in 12,16,20 & 28 gauges, 32" barrels, ivory beads, SSBP, splinter and Bernard barrels of course, all in their own fitted motor cases. Quail covey flushes on both sideplates and a Lab in gold relief on the floorplate. 14.5"lop, 1.5"x 2.5" drop and 3/16" cast on. The 12 would be a 1 frame, the 16 & 20 would be O frames and the 28 would be a OO of course. I would also be a Industrialist with my own private rail car and more money than God. Mr. Carnegie would consult with me on his meager investments. Whew... what a dream. What day is this?:shock:

[Greg Baehman]

When my interest in doubles began about 36 years ago my dream gun was a 20-ga. DHE, 26" IC/M, DT, SG, SPL and SSBP. This dream gun was at the top of my list for many years until I was "McIntoshed" into believing it needed to have 28" barrels and weigh at least 6 lbs. So my dream morphed into the same gun, but with 28" barrels weighing at least 6 lbs. Then, in 1995, when the Repros were closed out, I bought a 5 1/2 lb. 28-ga. DHE, 26" IC/M, DT, SG, SPL and SSBP and if there is a better gun for my purposes it could only be the real McCoy. So that's what I'd order, but with damascus tubes--a 5 1/2 lb. 28-ga. DHE, 26" IC/M, SG, SPL and SSBP. I could live fat and happy the rest of my days with that little jewel.

[Dave Suponski]

A 28 gauge Trojan.

[Daryl Corona]

Boy, Dave you're a cheap date.:rotf:

[Dean Romig]

No.... Dave is very "high maintenance" to be sure.

A 28 gauge Trojan might have been $27.50 when new plus $10 for the special order set of 28 ga. barrels but today.... depending on condition of course... an insurance value could be $30K or more. A well-advertised auction would likely determine it's true value.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Sitting here drinking my second cup of java, I let my mind wonder back to the days when you got something for your dollar, People were proud of what they produced and sometimes lingered a little longer to make it just right! They did not worry about making it home for the six o'clock news cause they did not get off till then. That said I would have wanted in a Parker gun what I want today! AA hammer gun, 32" Whitworth Barrels in 12ga twin Ivory beads, deep relief engraving, with SSBP and Oyster shell stock. That gun would set me back 400-700 bucks then, but now that same gun, if it could be had! will cost you 200,000 plus. So I continue to dream on! Gary

[allen newell]

I used to have a boss who'd call me into his office (downtown Boston) right at 5 pm and just to bust my stones so I'd miss the early train out of South Station and get home before 6 o'clock. He stopped this habit when I started to schedule 5 pm meetings with him very day!

I dreamed of Parkers then and still do now. Didin't have the money then and only a bit more today. But still dream.

My brother and I used to take the train down to New York every year just to visit the 7 th floor of A&F and look at all those fine guns in wonder and amazement. I remember seeing a fine gatling gun they had at the entrance to the Gun Room. Memories.

[Bruce Day]

Sitting here drinking my second cup of java, I let my mind wonder back to the days when you got something for your dollar, People were proud of what they produced and sometimes lingered a little longer to make it just right! They did not worry about making it home for the six o'clock news cause they did not get off till then. That said I would have wanted in a Parker gun what I want today! AA hammer gun, 32" Whitworth Barrels in 12ga twin Ivory beads, deep relief engraving, with SSBP and Oyster shell stock. That gun would set me back 400-700 bucks then, but now that same gun, if it could be had! will cost you 200,000 plus. So I continue to dream on! Gary

Gary, I'll keep a watch for that for you. Please look for a 16 ga C hammer for me.:)

I've seen the Whitworth barrels and the shell grip stock on hammer guns but never all of what you want. By the way, the C hammer Bernard I got from you is having a SSBP put back on with a short and hopefully undetectable stock extension and a reproduction period correct leather Parker trunk case is being made. What, about five known and this will put the gun back the way it should be.

For those who have not considered a hammer gun, I think you should take a look at them. Parker hammer guns are pretty neat.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Right you are Bruce, Hammer guns just seem to recall the days, when a dollar was a dollar and craftsmen were proud of the work they did. Good to hear you are bringing the C grade back to its original condition, with so few made it just makes sense to do it, sort of like an old Packard, they look better cleaned up, my thoughts Gary

[Gary Laudermilch]

Since we seem to be remembering days gone by, I would like to re-live 1971. I was stationed at Fort Campbell, KY and had a few bucks in my pocket. I believe I visited all of the gun shops in the vacinity as my mind was on a new O/U. There was a particular shop in Clarksville I believe, that had a 55 gal. drum in the middle of the store just stuffed with old Parkers, Fox's etc. with a sign - $50 your choice! There were free standing racks nearby that were full as well. Nobody wanted them. If only!!

[Bill Murphy]

Bruce, five known C hammer Bernards? We would like to see yours when the stock is done. Who is your talented woodworker? I have a couple of nice short guns that could use extensions.

[Bruce Day]

Dennis Smith StockDoctor has done butt extension joinery work that is imperceptible unless you know a line is there and even then its hard to see. If you can acquire a skeleton butt plate, which are hard to find, he will put one on with checkering. Not inexpensive but for the right gun......

You have to find an original Parker SSBP or have one made ( Glenn Fewless). Galazan sells them for 0 or 00 stocks that are thinner than original but would work.

[Dean Romig]

I may have a 2-frame skeleton butt plate if you need one. I'll measure it if you're interested. It's from a D and is pretty worn... I should say very worn.

[Bill Murphy]

Bruce, does Dennis do the grain and color blending also?

[Dave Suponski]

Bill, I have used Dennis for years and I believe he does.The work I have had Dennis do is nothing short of fantastic.I know that Mark Conrad had him restock a B grade(I think) and Mark was very satisfied with his work.At last years Vintagers Dennis was set up right next to the PGCA booth so we had a lot of time to visit and it was great to see him again.

[todd allen]

Might not have been possible, but If we're talking in the early 1900's (and I had the money) I would commission a high grade underlifter pigeon gun, with 30" Damascus and ejectors.

[Mills Morrison]

Is it cheating to add a Grade 4 LC Smith 8 gauge to my list? I will even settle for one of the ones that already exist.

[Rich Anderson]

Mills YES thats cheating:nono: You can order that gun on the other forum:biglaugh:

[Mills Morrison]

But they don't allow for sale/want to buy posts:rotf:

[Rich Anderson]

They just arn't as progressive as we are:)

[charlie cleveland]

mills that sure would be a rare gun that your wanting to order... charlie