Very hard to believe. Could it be true?

[John Truitt]

This is off topic for parkers, but check out the fox site. They have a link to julias auction that is "supposed to include the original bo-whoop :shock: Nash Buckingham's gun for sale".
This is hard for me to believe, but anything is possible.
I am interested to hear what more knowledgeable people on this and other forums have to say.
If it is true, IMHO this is a major piece of americana and brings up many unanswered issues and will create quit a stir.

[Dean Romig]

I first learned of this about two weeks ago but at that time it was simply rumor.

However, nearly two years ago I heard through the 'grapevine' that the original "Bo-Whoop" had turned up in the possession of an 'undisclosed' party.

Let's see if Jack Puglisi gets into the action . . . :corn:

[Forrest Smith]

This will be fun to watch!

[Dave Suponski]

I have talked to couple members of the Fox board and they are pretty convinced the gun is legit. As Forrest said"This should be fun!"

Kinda like the Fox version of the "Czars Gun"

[Dean Romig]

I dunno Dave - remember, 'condition is everything'. Maybe we should compare this to Spiller's Parker as far as what it is and the condition it may be in. We were surprised to see that one go for $10,500...

Both men were highly esteemed sportsmen and authors of a great many books (Derrydales as well as others) and articles in sporting publications. Both men were considered to be the "last word" in their chosen sporting field - Buckingham on Southern waterfowl, quail etc - Spiller on the ruffed grouse, woodcock, snipe etc.

(Take what I've said here with 'a grain of salt' as it is only written 'tongue in cheek'.)

Should be a very interesting auction :cool:

[Dave Suponski]

I agree with ya to a point.But the fact that the Czars gun was restocked didn,t seem to affect value in my mind.And "Bo-Whoop" seems to be in pretty nice shape. If a bidder just has to have it as in the case of the "Czars gun" this gun could go through the roof.But I really don,t think it will top the Parker. JHMO....:corn:

[George Lander]

If it's the "REAL BO-WHOOP" SN 31088 that I saw two years ago I predict that it will leave the "Czar's" Parker in the dust. To be sure it's got to be: HE Grade, 12 gauge, 32" barrels choked full & full, Stock 14 1/4" pull, 1 1/2 " DAC, 2: DAH, Weight 9 lb. 9 oz., straight slender grip, half oval, Hy Gain recoil pad, XE Grade style stock & fore arm, XE engraving, full round comb, pitch-2", cast off 1/2", chambered for 3" shell for #4 chilled shot, largest ivory front sight, small ivory rear sight 10" from the breech. Shipped from Fox Philadelphia, PA factory May 27, 1927. Original onsignee listed to be Nash Buckingham. (All this taken from a copy of John Callahan's letter to the present owner)

Best Regards, George

[David Dwyer]

George
I also saw the gun about two years go at the same place you did. There did not seem to be any question as to originality.This should be interesting to watch in todays enviroment.
David

[George Lander]

If it's the "REAL BO-WHOOP" SN31088 that I saw two years ago I predict that it will leave the "Czar's Parker" in the dust. To be sure it's got to be: HE Grade, 12 gauge, 32" barrels choked full & full, Stock 14 1/4" pull, 1 1/2" DAC, 2" DAH, Weight 9 lb. 9 oz., straigh slender grip stock, half oval, Hy Gain recoil pad, XE style stock & fore arm, XE engraving, full round comb, pitch-2", cast off 1/2", chambered for 3" shells for #4 chilled shot, largest ivory front sight, small ivory rear sight 10" from the breech, Shipped from Fox Philadelphia, PA factory May 27, 1927. Original consignee listed to be Nash Buckingham. (All of ths taken from a copy of John Callahan's letter dated April 4, 2006 to the present owner whose name was deleted) When I saw the gun it was being restocked to duplicate the original which had been broken and repaired and was present. I wonder if the original stock will be included in the sale?

Best Regards, George

[Dean Romig]

...

[Kevin McCormack]

It's been in the same place as the Czar's gun and the third Invincible were - squirreled safely away from prying eyes and fumbling hands.

[George Lander]

David: We both know that the smith / stockmaker that worked on Bo-Whoop is as straight as an arrow. He had Mr. Callahan's letter with the owner's name removed. South Georgia sounds about right.

Dean: The story that I got says that after Nash and his frien came up out of the swamp a game warden was checking their bag and their guns. He laid Bo-Whoop on the fender and Nash and his friend forgot about it and drove off, probably running over the gun in the process. When they arrived back at their cabin, some miles away, they realized that they had left the gun and hurried back to search but to no avail. The state police and even the National Guard was summoned and a generous reward offered but no Bo-Whoop.
I was told that it has been in the present owner's family possession for many years and has been hunted with regularly. I don't believe that the finder knew who the gun belonged to and was not disclosed until the letter was obtained from Mr. Callahan.

Just My Humble Opinion.........George

[Dean Romig]

It's been in the same place as the Czar's gun and the third Invincible were - squirreled safely away from prying eyes and fumbling hands.

Kevin, do you mean to say it has been in the posession of the old widow on Long Island?

[Destry L. Hoffard]

If it's the real deal and the right folks get involved I think there's a good chance of a record selling price for an American shotgun in the offing.

As far as the Spiller gun goes, it only meant something to grouse hunters who are a pretty small fraternity. This is the gun of the most famous American waterfowler that ever lived or will ever live. It's been written about, researched, slavered and drooled about for over 50 years. The Spiller gun was just a well worn Parker that belonged to a fairly well known writer, this is Bo-Whoop we're talking about.....

I'm interested to see what provenance the auction house produces. Needless to say, I ain't player, but it will be a fun tale to follow.


Destry

[Dean Romig]

If it's the real deal and the right folks get involved I think there's a good chance of a record selling price for an American shotgun in the offing.

As far as the Spiller gun goes, it only meant something to grouse hunters who are a pretty small fraternity.

I disagree with you on that point Destry but I agree with you on the rest of your post. Dean

This is the gun of the most famous American waterfowler that ever lived or will ever live. It's been written about, researched, slavered and drooled about for over 50 years. The Spiller gun was just a well worn Parker that belonged to a fairly well known writer, this is Bo-Whoop we're talking about.....

I'm interested to see what provenance the auction house produces. Needless to say, I ain't player, but it will be a fun tale to follow.


Destry...

[Forrest Smith]

One thing to consider as far as media hype-you and I know who Nash Buckingham was, but today's general public (and even most of today hunting public) don't. Everyone knew of the Czar of Russia. The Czar Parker was also a very showy, photo friendly gun-this one somewhat less so by the very nature of its make and creed:). Are their any dealers who identify themselves maninly as Fox Dealers the way Puglisi does himself with Parkers? I'd think they would buy it as an investment & adverstising that they are the premier dealer of Foxes.

[Bill Murphy]

Jack Puglisi changed the whole "key shotgun" market when he paid a price for the Czar's Gun based on his rolodex rather than on the general shotgun market or based on what the gun was worth to him as a collector. This will be the criteria on which the price of Bo Whoop will be based. That eliminates the average wealthy collector from the bidding. At least we'll get a good look at the old girl. I had a chance to own the "Award Gun" but turned it down based on what I thought was not that important a piece of waterfowling history.

[Dean Romig]

Bro' Murphy is, once again, absolutely correct...

[Donnie Reels]

What does Mr. Buckingham famley say about this? If the gun was lost and everyone at the time was looking for it I think the gun is as good as stolen. For years everyone has looked for the gun and the guy that had new what he had. I agree with Mr. Roman They need to give the gun back.

[John Dallas]

I think Bill Jaqua beat Mr. Puglisi by about 15 years when he bought the "Little Persuader" 28 Ga Parker, paying something like $100K. People thought he was crazy, until the transaction ended up in the center column of the WSJ,validating high quality guns as an investment alternative. He resold the gun within a month, if I'm not mistaken

[Dave Suponski]

Please don,t take this as a knock of Fox guns.They are great guns and if I wasn,t so deep with Parkers the Fox would be my gun of choice. Bo-Whoop is a Fox gun" albiet a very famous one" My logic here is that Fox guns do not historically bring the $ Parkers do. Do you guys think that in this case provenance will grossly outweigh the value of this gun if it was a Fox owned by "Joe Blow"?

[John Truitt]

IMHO:
I think the gun will go for figures close to if not higher than the Czars gun, despite the economy.
Provenance is the key as well as all of the hype surronding this gun regarding its disapperance.

By the way doesnt the gun have made for Nash Buckingham engraved on it.

[Dave Noreen]

The legend on the barrels is hand stamped with individual letters --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Nash%20Buckingham/3108802.jpg

She is a well worn old fowling piece, but she was used by Nash to 21 or 22 years. The Czar never saw his alledged Parker Bros. double, and likely had no hint of its existance.

[Dean Romig]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;8551]Or has it lain hidden in obscurity all this time because whoever picked it up on the roadside knew who it belonged to and knew himself to be a dishonest coward to have kept Bo-Whoop... ?QUOTE]

Thanks Researcher, I rest my case.

[John Truitt]

Its a damn shame. I can only imagine how Mr. Buckingham must have felt when he lost Bo Whoop. That gun must have felt like an extension and piece of him. I am sure that was a terribel feeling that I hope none of us here ever have to feel. It really makes me sad to think about how many years and hunts that gun missed with the person it was made for.

[James T. Kucaba]

If I did it correctly, the photo of Nash Buckingham's Bo Whoop that's posted on the Julia Auctions website should appear in this post ... I hope Jim Julia Doesn't mind my posting the photo here.

Jim Kucaba ... AriZOona Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com

[Francis Morin]

My first question to the Fox/TNB/Bo-Whoop cognoscenti here would be: Does this Fox HE made for TNB in 1927 have the "No Guaranteed" stamping on the barrel flats, as apparently some of the HE Fox guns did- meaning "Pattern" not the integrity of the barrel steel and construction.??

I have always held the late Nash Buckingham to be the "Top Shelf" of genteel Sportsmen no longer with us- and that list includes Paul Curtis, Hal Sheldon, William H. Foster, Ray P. Holland, Corey Ford and Gene Hill- and you will note they were all esteemed writers as well. I am fortunate to have many of their books in original editions, treasures I read and re-read oft times.

Part of the reason for my high regard for Nash was his loyalty to his friends, and his gracious Southern manners and respect for all ladies, not just his beloved wife Irma Witt Jones Buckingham. My late GrandFather taught me that you can judge the character of a man by how he treats his wife, his children and his bird dogs- Amen to that.

I recently bought (privately) a Fox 20 Sterlingworth- a Philadelphia mfg. gun with 26" open bored barrels, double triggers and extractors, unaltered, original black buttplate, about 85% blue and wood finish, 60% color casehardening- mechanically perfect 6 lbs. a great upland gun for shooting over a solid pointing dog indeed. I don't normally disclose what I have paid for a gun, anymore than I show my hole cards in poker to the man who folded his hand and surrendered the pot to me- But because the Fox/Parker value question was raised, the same party had a Meriden mfg. Parker VH 20 bore, size 0 frame, 28" Vulcan Steel barrels, DT., extractors for sale :(it has been sold now) in about the same very good condition as the Fox- and he was asking $3000 for the Parker--

As to whether the "Bo-Whoop" gun was "stolen" or "kept without looking for the proper owner"- and with his name clearly stamped on the barrel breech area, the gun was his property, and every effort should be made to return it to his heirs. The other guns he owned and sold while he was living, including the M21 "Award gun" and the second Becker 12 Magnum, sold to Dr. Andrews, that is indeed another situation, IMO.

His grandchildren should benefit from the sale of this historic shotgun, Nash stood for honor and decency and sportsmanship, this is the only right thing to do.

Why in Heaven's name did the "game agent" need to check a double gun for a three shot plug and would he think a gentleman of Nash's prestige would NOT have a valid hunting license and waterfowling stamp?

I recall two "Fox" experiences from past days- I had owned a altered 12 HE- 32" Full and extra Full- loved to use it for barn Pigeons when they return to silo, they usually have some altitude, but that Fox "nailed 'em"--it was so well fitted that it would not close completely on my reloads AA red hulls, only on factory new ones-I have since replaced it with a LC Smith 2E with 32" ventilated rib barrels- 2.5 lbs. lighter

My late GrandFather, who hunted with both 12 Parkers and a hammer 12 bore Purdey, had a close friend who owned a DE 12 Fox-we were out for pheasants one Saturday in early November, my Grandfather had picked up some Rem. 12 paper No. 6's at Howell & Clement Friday evening- Mr. Bontrager's Fox would NOT close with those new Remingtons- fortunately, he had some Ranger shells and those worked- My GrandFather later "miked" the brass heads and the unfired Remington shells were 0.0015" larger in dia. than the Ranger shells that worked in his friend's high grade Fox-!!

[Francis Morin]

[QUOTE=Dave Noreen;8618]The legend on the barrels is hand stamped with individual letters --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Nash%20Buckingham/3108802.jpg

She is a well worn old fowling piece, but she was used by Nash to 21 or 22 years. The Czar never saw his alledged Parker Bros. double, and likely had no hint of its existance.[\

I wonder if those stamped letters were really done by the hands of the late B. Becker- or a 'counterfeit'-I have a lady friend who is a forensic handwriting expert, I am going to show her a printed copy of this.

Even to my inexperienced eyes, the left barrel characters and alignment vary from those evidenced on the right barrel. Also, this special Fox for TNB was made in 1927- when Burt Becker might have been at his "prime"- GBE reported that he made exehibition grade guns for Parker and Remington. he might have resorted to this rather "sloppy' and mis-aligned hand stamping under a recoil pad or inside the forearm- but to mark up a very high grade and engraved Fox with this type of "stamping"? raises a question to my layman's eyes-

Also, GBE mentioned in "Mr. Buck's guns" that the first Becker had a distinctive top lever configuration- Granted, the late GBE wasn't the AH Fox-ist that a Michael McIntosh might seem to be, BUT- GBE did start his bird hunting career with a 12 Sterlingworth, prior to his being bequeathed a 12 bore Purdey-

Also, when did Fox start the 'Barrels Not Guaranteed' stamp on the barrel flats- a "marketing error?" that may have mis-lead potential Fox buyers into thinking their Chromox steel tubes might fail under shooting conditions?? I believe what Fox may have meant to say was "Pattern percentages NOT Guaranteed"-- anyway, I'm sure not a player at this table either, stakes will be way too high for me- IF this gun is indeed the first "Bo-Whoop"--

[Don Kaas]

First, I hope both the Buckingham heirs, TNB's insurance company (whomever they were) seller, Julias and buyer end up happy. Where are the routine roll stamp markings? Even if the current markings were added (by or for NB) later the original barrel stampings or traces of them would exist. All other known Philadelphia Foxes that Becker worked on are marked with Fox barrel markings and nother other than a few stamp markings know to be used by Becker. Other well known Becker stocking touches are absent as well on this re-stocked gun. Most of the opinions on this gun I have read are by people who have never even seen a Becker made gun in the hand let alone owned one. It would be like a DHE Parker leaving Meriden in 1928 stamped "Made for Nash Buckingham by James Geary, Meriden, CT". This was a Fox factory ordered and shipped gun that Becker (who was merely a contractor there) may have had a hand in making. Unlike Bo Whoop II it was not a post 1932 "Becker" gun made and marked by him using a factory gun I hope this gun is Bo Whoop and I hope someone CAN prove this is Bo Whoop but right now the provenance of this gun is suspect but it is a factory HE/XE with out doubt. Many historical and physical contradictions exist, however When Dave is convinced, I'll be more convinced. If Tom Kidd says it is even better. Right now this is a Fox XE/HE that is thought to be Bo Whoop. As for Parkers being worth more than Foxes, TR's 1909 safari F grade changed hands privately for $450,000 almost 10 years ago. One of the most famous US presidents on the most famous safari ever taken and a gift gun that made the trip with absolutely impeccable provenance.
-Written from the shores of Beaver Dam Lake, Tunica, MS 12-09-09

[jerrybucci]

can someone please tell me what load BoWoop was made for
I beleive it was winchester super x #4's does anybody know the speed and oz.
thanks

[Francis Morin]

Very interesting indeed. I had read that the F grade 12 Fox presented to Teddy Roosevelt was ordered w/o ejectors, as that was his preference. I also read that he sent a check in payment, and it was returned uncashed by the Fox sales manager-

This raises another ?- Did Nash order and pay for his first "Bo-Whoop", or was it a gift to a famous sportsman from the Fox Gun Co.?? The second Becker Super Fox was ordered by some of Nash's friends in an effort to replace the first gun-

I went to GBE's book "The Best of Nash Buckingham" (as if there could be anything second rate about this Gentleman-Sportsman from a by-gone era)- page 151- Chapter entitled Mr. Buck's Guns--quote: Nash's favorite 3 inch load for the gun (Bo-Whoop) was "an ounce and three eights of 4's coppered, ahead of four drams of powder"--

I have shot a similar load, albiet in a plastic hull and with plastic wadding- before steel and non-toxic became the law of the land, I used the Federal Premium copper plated lead shot loads in most all of my 12 gauge guns- both 2 & 3/4" and 3" length-for my three primary game birds hunted: Ring-necked pheasants, Green-head Mallards and Canada geese- Devastating indeed.

I had at one time a HE 12- it had been 'restocked" apparently by a group of ruptured Chinese gunsmiths out on a hot wine drunk- it weighed almost 11 lbs. with 32" barrels, had the 3" chamber mark and the "Not Guaranteed" stamping- but I could not swear that Mr. Becker was involved in its manufacture. The weight came from the added spacer and pad with a lead plug in the butt- (similar to my 3" Mag M12) and a "beavertail forearm" that was, no doubt, copied from a deceased beaver- UGLY- but the price was right, the splinter forearm was included and a leather case- I couldn't handle such a heavy gun today--but mechanically it was a gem- solid lock up, ejectors perfectly timed, sweet triggers and I dropped a sinful load of Canadas with it--never shot it with steel loads!

Also, I went to foto section of the book between pages 20 and 23- I believe the dog "Chubby" pictured with Nash is a Cocker Spaniel, albiet a good sized one. In years past we had Cockers for house dogs, I doubt there is a more of a "One_Man" breed than a Cocker- "Murphy" followed me around like I had steak bones in my pockets- he was an English Cocker, black and white, and looked like the "smaller brother" to our neighbor's black and white Springer "Clint"!!

I know this is about the Bo-Whoopie question, but another reason I revere both Nash Buckingham and Gene Hill was their love and kind treatment towards dogs. In the GBE "Letters To John Bailey" is detailed a gun brokered deal that "went South" against Nash, and he wrote the brokeree "Next time, you get yourself another boy" Said a lot to me about his integrity!!

[John Truitt]

If this gun truely turns out to be Bo Whoop, is this the last big mysterious american side by side? The third invicible was found, now the czar gun, and now possibly bo whoop. Are all of the legendary american side by sides now acounted for?

[Dean Romig]

John - Pardon the pun, but 'not by a long shot" have the legendary American SXS's been accounted for. Sure, maybe those owned by famous notables are thinning down but there are guns out there that will become legendary in and of themselves. Just today I was discussing with a couple of PGCA Members the (heretofore) rumored pair of looong barreled high-grade Parker .410s that went to the West Coast immediately before we became involved in WWII . . . rumor at this juncture but let's wait and see what happens. We may never hear more of them - they may become swept away from any possible knowledge by the likes of us or they may become public much like the Invincibles . . . time will tell. As for myself - I certainly won't be a player :cool:

[Francis Morin]

Add to this "sudden emergence" of the original "Bo Whoop" super Fox 12 made for Nash Buckingham possibly some of the fabled $1000 grade Lefevers, the handful of Parkers in 24 gauge (reportedly made for UMC)--I can't say with any accuracy here, and as I am not going to be a "player" at the James Julia auction which this gun goes "under the hammer" I can only guess-

I think Nash's gun may well have been damaged- go back to 1948- and without knowing how old the car with the fenders was- or its make-just that it wasn't Nash's as he didn't own a car or drive, so I have read- and factoring in the WW11 non-production of passenger cars (to save gas, rubber, steel, etc) also possible it may have been a pre-War car-- fenders and running boards, December terrain (I don't know the area of Clarendon AK- or where the section 16 club was back then-) BUT- the gun, whether cased or uncased, and from the GBE report I believe it was cased- may well have slipped- perhaps mud, snow, the driver "gunned it" to get traction- possibly the barrels were damaged by the rear wheel, maybe also the stock was broken at the wrist- all speculation--

Another thought- and yes- apples to oranges BUT- were there any "counterfeited" A-1 Specials in 12 gauge with 32" barrels that might have been offered for sale as the "Czar's Parker" before Julia's sold the authenticated one to Jack Puglisi a few years ago??:cool:

[Dean Romig]

Another thought- and yes- apples to oranges BUT- were there any "counterfeited" A-1 Specials in 12 gauge with 32" barrels that might have been offered for sale as the "Czar's Parker" before Julia's sold the authenticated one to Jack Puglisi a few years ago??:cool:


Oh yeah! There certainly was . . . Read TPS pg. 666 with photos on pg. 662, 663 and 665

. . . with a big lawsuit to boot.

[Francis Morin]

Perhaps I can add another "log to the existing fire" on the possible authenticity of the HE Fox the Julia auction house will be offering. Page 152 of the GBE book "The Best of NB"- Quote: On December 2, Nash wrote John Bailey-- "Well, I lost the big gun yesterday-terrible blow. ******** My name on case and also in left barrel of gun.. In Clarendon ***** . It's fully insured ***. This re-read, plus the fact that I have almost memorized this entire book, brings up these options: (1) The last one first here- the part about fully insured. Any way of knowing if Nash received an insurance settlement for the loss of his prized AH Fox gun? If so, then I believe that fact would negate any claim his heirs might have to a later sale of that historic Fox gun.

And now (2)- GBE made a point many times about TNB's writing with the battered old typewriter, and the errors that his editors may have proofed and corrected- Point being, Nash wrote "and also IN left barrel of gun" and if he had meant to say ON left barrel of gun, then the enscription of the gun shown in this thread is wrong, as his name is stamped on the right barrel. Also, page 154- the two letters from Mr. Becker circa 1950 show his name as BURT.BECKER- with NO SPACING as more commonly found BURT BECKER and possible sans the period after the T- would he not, as we are all somewhat creatures of habit, have then stamped his name in the same manner on the gun(s) he made that belonged to TNB???:rolleyes:

[Bill Murphy]

Francis, I think it's about time you bought a TPS and memorized it. I think Dan Cote has slightly imperfect full sets for about $225. I will sell you one of my perfect sets for about $275. plus shipping. You are now "one of us" so you have to start spending like "one of us".

[Richard Flanders]

Go Francis! I noticed that in/on detail also. Had to be a typo. As I like to say, "the difference between mediocrity and excellence in nearly every aspect of life is little more than the attention to detail"....

[Francis Morin]

What is the saying about bush pilots? Old ones, Bold ones, but few "Old and Bold"--I also am curious as I just registered on James Julia's website and tried to find either AH Fox or Burt becker shotguns listed for the coming March 2010 auction-fest. NADA, yet PGCA member Jim Kucaba has a foto in his post from Jul;ia's of the 'gun in??" here- very interesting??:rolleyes:

[John Truitt]

Mr. Morin,
Shes there. Just go to julias and click on highlighted gusn for the March auction. Keep scrolling down and it will show up.

[Francis Morin]

How did the other fotos of this shotgun with the view of the barrel breechs and the "stamping and Burt Becker" come about. I went further, and the Fox XE 12 32" looked intersting, but like the "Bo-Whoop", way outta my league! thanks- I'll sip some Dickel on the rocks tonight with the football stuff on the tube, add another walnut chunk to the fire, and think about the fine Gentlemen from the Old Dominion-:bigbye:

[hugh rather]

I have a question about BO-whoop.The stock that is broken has a checkered butt,right?If so Nash's Bo-whoop had a recoil pad[someone identified this pad's brand in another post somewhere].Someone hypothesized that perhaps the broken stock was a replacement Nash had done but not written about[Mr. Highsmith of Mason gunsmiths was speculated]Mr. Highsmith was alive, I know, recently.Did anyone attempt to ask?

[Dave Suponski]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think the consensess[sic] was the gun has had three stocks on it over it's lifetime.

[hugh rather]

What happened to the other stock[the first] and who made the second stock?Also, does anyone have contact with Buckingham family members who would shed some light on the Bowhoop story?

[Bill Murphy]

It is assumed that Mr. Highsmith performed most of Nash's gunsmithing and stockmaking when he was domiciled in Tennessee. However, Nash spent some time in other areas of the South and also spent some time in Washington, D.C., although I'm not sure how long he was a resident of the evil empire. Does anyone know where Nash lived exactly when he was in Washington? I have not found his address.

[Gregory Miller]

So, let's see if I understand this. A gentleman finds what is obviously a very expensive shotgun lying in the road. The owner's name is engraved on the rib. And, it is name that is known to every sportsmen and who can be easily contacted through the sporting magazines. No one mentions it for decades, and now it is "Found"?

This may be the valient "Bo Whoop", but the story of where it has been all these years smells bad.

[Jay Gardner]

So, let's see if I understand this. A gentleman finds what is obviously a very expensive shotgun lying in the road. The owner's name is engraved on the rib. And, it is name that is known to every sportsmen and who can be easily contacted through the sporting magazines. No one mentions it for decades, and now it is "Found"? Finders keepers is not how I understand the law in most States.

This may be the valient "Bo Whoop", but the story of where it has been all these years smells bad.

The finder of lost or abandon property has good title to all except the true owner.

JDG

[George Lander]

Jim Kelly told me that the stock he was making for Bo Whoop would be it's third. The owner told him that his grandfather had the second stock made years ago (the grandfather bought it with a broken stock which probably was the original the whereabouts of which are unknown) As far as he knew the forearm is original to the gun. The second broken stock, I believe, is included in the sale.

Best Regards, George

[Gregory Miller]

This is not an issue of law, it is an issue of character. A gentlemen would take the net proceeds from this sale and donate it to a cause Nash would have supported. We all make decisions in life. And, none of us will be in this world forever.

[Tim Sheldon]

So, let's see if I understand this. A gentleman finds what is obviously a very expensive shotgun lying in the road. The owner's name is engraved on the rib. And, it is name that is known to every sportsmen and who can be easily contacted through the sporting magazines. No one mentions it for decades, and now it is "Found"?

This may be the valient "Bo Whoop", but the story of where it has been all these years smells bad.

PLUS the fact there was a reward for the gun!!!

---when it looks like a skunk
-----and it smells like a skunk...
-------it just might be a skunk!

Tim

[Robert Delk]

I agree with Mr. Miller and the proceeds should go to such a cause as he stated.I think whoever found the gun knew or at some point learned who the owner was and just kept it anyway.

[Chuck Heald]

A question for those of you that have been around the big end of collectable guns with significant provenance, maybe a dumb one. Would the genuine Bo Whoop be a risky investment in the long haul? Is there a significant risk that the gun could depreciate with the passing of Nash Buckingham's contemporaries?

[Dean Romig]

Chuck, I think the answer to your question rests largely with the level of recruitment of younger people into our societies of collecting and other shooting interests. This, including, but not limited to, the great books that have been written about the sport in those days. Even the writings of many authors of today are writing what may be deemed classics in generations to come. Let's hope it continues - let's do our part to ensure it does.

[Kevin McCormack]

It is assumed that Mr. Highsmith performed most of Nash's gunsmithing and stockmaking when he was domiciled in Tennessee. However, Nash spent some time in other areas of the South and also spent some time in Washington, D.C., although I'm not sure how long he was a resident of the evil empire. Does anyone know where Nash lived exactly when he was in Washington? I have not found his address.

Yes, Bill -

Nash did one of his many "agro-eco-ego-financial Special Assignments" in our own Washington Metro area in the late 1930s, compliments of John Olin, J.N. "Ding" Darling, Aurthur Morganthau, Winchester-Western, and Ducks Unlimited. When receipts from his (shiney) seat on the cotton exchange in Memphis began to go south, he turned to writing, whose outputs made him a hot commodity on the "what are we doing to the planet" circuit.

Nash enjoyed an idyllic existence during his brief stay here, having worked out an arrangement with none other than "Marse" Henry Bartholemew, uberFox patron, whereby he lived rent-free in one of the comfortable outbuildings on "Marse" Henry's palacial estate. Actually an ante-bellum "farm" lying between Broad and Swan creeks east off the mainstem of the Potomac River, between Fort Washington and Marshall Hall plantation in Prince Georges County, MD, about 12 miles south of Washington DC, the place is to this day known as a Canvasback stronghold.

The farm was seized by the federal government after the Civil War from Confederate sympathizers, of whom there were many in the area (do Mary Surratt, George Atzelrod, Dr. Samuel Mudd and the guy who broke his leg leaping off the balcony of Ford's Theatre ring a bell?). Nash worked out a deal with "Marse Henry" whereby he lived essentially free in an "outbuilding" on the estate, his only responsibilities being those of rising early to set decoys, ensuring an adequate supply of corn (not for making tortillas), and keeping the local pickers (not Bluegrass musicians) at the ready for processing the prodigious amounts of ducks they killed (not "harvested") on the Potomac.

When WWII broke out, carefree frivolity like duck shooting on the Potomac went south (what does that term acutally mean? - like migrating ducks or what??) and Captains of Industry like "Marse Henry" turned back to the business they loved best - making money. In sharp contrast, Nash, eshewing the dust, heat and light of wartime DC, returned to his beloved Southland to continue "giving the next customers a whirl" with his Becker-bored Super Duper Uber Fox Magnum (HIS barrels, BTW, "Guaranteed"!). The rest, as they say, is history.

So in the end, who really cares if the "Original Bo Whoop" has had two stocks or three; so what if the letters on the "Burt Becker custom built for Nash Buckingham" barrel stamps are crooked; and tell me this: did anyone ever actually count up all those shot holes to make sure that those barrels shot 90% patterns? Not likely!

[Francis Morin]

I have heard some versions of the origins of the "Going South" phrase, wish I knew for certain. Very insightful details as to the "backers $ wise" of the Washington D.C. based career of Mr. Buck. None of what you have detailed here detracts from Nash Buckingham's being a Southern Gentleman, whose loyalty to his friends and devotion to his wife are hallmarks of Southern gentility to the nth degree.

I am sure there were others from his time that found their career paths perhaps "re-routed"- gambling, bad investments, poor choice in business partners or even friendships gone with the wind- I don't anything about Mr. Henry B., but he wouldn't have made serious $ during the depression by not being a good judge of character, ditto Nash's friend Edgar Queeny, president of Monsanto Chemical, or John Olin and others with "deep pockets'.

I am just guessing here, but I think they sensed something in Nash that made them, each in their own way and for their own reasons, support their friend. How many of us that might have lost a treasured firearm would have the calibre of friends that would want to "step up to the plate" and get a replacement built by an aging master gunsmith, to not only have their friend equipped with a similar fine shotgun, but to also let him know how much they valued his friendship?

If we lived in a perfect world, and we most assuredly do NOT- the gentleman who buys that HE Fox 12 bore in Mid-March (and bewaring those Ides of course) must know the controversy this single shotgun carries with it. Not the case with the Czar's Parker that Julia's sold a few years ago to Mr. Puglisi,
it is my understanding that as it wasn't paid for by the Russian Counsel and the Colonel who had apparently ordered it, it was returned to Mr. Parker and he rightfully and legally sold it to a friend in New York City.

No question of ownership, authenticity or anything else, a straightforward business deal that enabled Mr. Parker to recoup his Company's costs in producing such a fine high grade shotgun.

I also agree with the 'skunk" analogy presented here. The engraved or stamped name of Nash Buckingham on the barrel breech area, the reward and efforts by the law enforcement folks in that area of Arkansas back then, I firmly believe that some passerby found the gun in the case, possibly with the broken stock from the fall from the front fender as the car pulled away after the CO's check of birds, duck stamps, etc--and did the old 'losers weepers, finders keepers' bit and kept it hidden away.

Now it resurfaces and is in the hands of a organization that stands to make 30% from the over-hyped sale- so let's say it goes out at $300,000 even when the hammer drops and the deal goes down- that puts about $90,000 in Mr. Julia's pockets for a stolen gun with questionable provenance, IMO.

Yes, Wes Dillon has apparently "authenticated" this Fox 12 bore- Of course he has, he works for Mr. Julia. What is he going to do, counterdict his boss, the man who signs his paychecks. I think NOT.

This whole sad business stinks- like the skunk analogy, and I am grateful for many things: good health, good vision and physical strength,a few good shotguns and a few good friends to enjoy shooting with on occasion, and for the fact that I don't have the 'depth of pocket" to even enter the bidding ring for 90% of the items Julia's offers in their catalogues--

One of Nash's best friends was the late Captain Paul A. Curtis, and he once wrote these timely words: "The field is the touchstone of the man"--Nash Buckingham lived up to those words all his 91 years, and I am saddened by the circus the pending sale of a Fox gun that might have been his prized possession being hawked by profiteers.:crying:

[Tim Sheldon]

Has anyone taken an original Olin shell out, shoot her and hear if she screams "BO WHOOP"?

Tim

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Russ Bickel and I have discussed those shells actually, neither of us has ever seen a box that was loaded with what Nash talks about. The originals were supposedly 3 inch paper cases, 1 3/8 ounce of Lubaloy shot. I'd love to find a box and so would Russ, but ol' Nash must have shot them all up I guess......

Destry

[Jerry McCarty]

Hello Mr. McCormack,

Being a big fan of A.H. Fox guns and Mr. Buckingham's story, "The Family Honor" which tells of Marse Henry's venue on the Potomac, your description of the Henry property leaves me with a question that you could perhaps answer...

Actually an ante-bellum "farm" lying between Broad and Swan creeks east off the mainstem of the Potomac River, between Fort Washington and Marshall Hall plantation in Prince Georges County, MD

I used to have a 'stake' off of the main stem just up stream of Swan Creek along the shoreline of an old farm which I thought might have once belonged to Marse Henry given the description in Mr. Buckingham's tale that it was between Swan Creek and Broad Creek (if memory serves). Your description that the property lies between Fort Washington and Marshall Hall would put it down river from where I used to hunt but never the less, there were canvas back to be shot. This was however, was prior to the development of Washington Harbor which caused a lot of damage to the grass beds of Smoot Bay and thus the decline of the diver shooting along that stretch of the river in my opinion. Any how, just curious if you know if I'm way off in my assessment of the old Marse Henry farm. By the way, another interesting location along that shoreline is south at Chapman's Landing where Herbert Hoover had a 'duck camp' and the remnants of the building are still there at the south end of the marsh.

Regards,

Jerry

[Tom Kidd]

Here You Go!

[Destry L. Hoffard]

That's the stuff!

I've got two boxes of 3 inch 1 5/8 ounce of Lubaloy #6 but they're in plastic cases. That's the closest I've seen until now.

A friend from Tennessee just found me 50 pounds of Lubaloy #4 shot and 25 pounds of #7 1/2. Would make a fun loading project if I could find some 3 inch paper cases.


DLH

[Kevin McCormack]

Jerry McCarty -

You are correct; the stretch off the mainstem of the Potomac River lying between Fort Washington and Marshall Hall is indeed south of Henry Bartholemew's farm, lying between Swan and Broad Creeks to the north. I actually located the property one afternoon in late winter by cruising neighborhood streets in the subdivision just south of Riverview Rd. off of Fort Washington Rd. which runs north-south off of Indian Head HWY south of I-495.
I eventually came to a street running E-W that had houses on the south side but large open fields to the north. This may have been Riverview Rd.; I don't remember since its been years ago. Broad Creek would have been north of these large open fields; Swan Creek Rd. is further south by at least a half hour. As I drove along, I remarked how the south side of the street had been built up but that the north side had remained open fields.
About that time I passed a pair of brick pillars on which were hung a pair of large wrought iron gates. In the center of each gate was a large oval framing the letter B. The letters faced each other like a true mirror image; sort a pair of stylized Greek letter Betas. I'm virtually certain that this gate was one of the entrances to the Bartholemew estate.

Nothing else was visible over the aspect of the field elevations, which is why I was equally certain that the property fell away to the creek to the north. This has been at least 10-12 years ago; I have no idea what disposition of the property is today.

BTW, are you any relation to John S. McCarty, perhaps the first President of the newly-minted American Trapshooting Association in the late 19-teens; early 1920's? If so, we need to talk - I'm pretty sure I have his Parker BHE trap gun.

[Jerry McCarty]

Kevin,

I'd have to retrace my steps as well to know if where I hunted was along the shoreline of where you found the Bartholemew farm however I think I recall there being an old 4 board fence underneath all of the overgrowth. It was definitely an older house that sat on this property. The shoreline however, was fairly featureless as I remember it.

No relation to John S. McCarty that I'm aware of. Do you know where he lived?

BTW - I'm the guy who lives in Oakton with the duck boat occasionally parked out front.... Would like to talk double guns & hunting over coffee sometime if you care to.

-Jerry

[Kevin McCormack]

Yeah; we see each other at the Chantilly show regularly. Me and my bunch will not be there in April because we're all going to the Southern SxS in Sanford NC. But we will be back in force for the July Chantilly show. Also catch us at the upcoming Old Baltimore Show March 20-21 at the Fairgrounds at Timonium MD; tables B4 & 5 A full 800 tables of antique arms with NO jewelry, black guns, beanie babies, ratchet tool sets, tac rails, laser sights, or bulk mil ammo! - Think of it - a REAL old-time gun show!! See you there.

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, as Kevin implies, the Bartholomew digs are on Riverview Drive. The property was on the Maryland Farm Tour several years ago, open to the public for a weekend. I found out about it too late. I thought it was an annual event with the same itinerary. I was wrong, the itinerary changes every year. A couple of our members have been to the property when Henry's guns were being sold. I don't know if they have been back since. In fact, the pictured box of shells came from the Bartholomew home.