Scholarship?

[allen newell]

Has the PGCA ever considered establishing a scholarship fund for the sole purpose of assisting youth who wish to go to gunsmithing school and learn the trade/skill? Just a thought, this could be a fund that would be targeted towards a son or daughter of a PGCA Member who wants to learn this trade.

Not trying to rock the PGCA boat or step on any toes (I'm a relatively new member). This could be another thing we could do as an organization to build more support in the restoration business, underscore the value we place on collection and restoration where necessary and prudent. Help youth develop an occupational skill etc. etc. Is this something the PGCA BOD would be will to discuss? I'd be willing to make a contribution to such a fund if there is broad based support for same.

[allen newell]

56 views and no one has an opinion ? Interesting. "You'll never see a Brinks Truck following a hearse."

[Bill Zachow]

Personally, I think it is one hell of a good idea. Thanks for suggesting it. I agree, the BOD would have to discuss/analyze/approve and come up with eligibility criteria. Perhaps a selected student, after completing the appropriate course of study, might then work as an apprentice to some of our excellent gunsmith members to specialize in Parkers. Good idea

[Bill Murphy]

The NRA got ten grand without asking. A deserving student should be able to get a PGCA grant if he presented a good case for his gunsmithing goals. I suggest that a deserving student could step up.

[allen newell]

I think we can say that the PGCA stands for the collection, preservation and restoration of these fine specimens of true American craftsmanship. Many of us, I dare say, the majority of us are to some extent dependant on the services of highly skilled gunmakers/gunsmiths to preserve and protect these fine doubleguns that we often inherit, acquire are given etc. It would be a nice way to help actualize these principles and help those sons AND daughters (grandchildren for many of us?) among our membership who might wish to pursue a career in this field. "you will never see a Brinks Truck follow a hearse"

[John Campbell]

I have no idea of the PGCA's disposable finances... and I think the proposal here has merit.

But, considering the existing assault on guns of any kind, I would think that every dime that can be spared should be spent on keeping or Second Amendment Rights. And our double guns.

Then, after that's secured, think of scholarships.

[D.P.Warden]

I think it's a great idea. The existing assault is on assault weapons, high capacity clips and those wanna be GI Joe's that play in that pool. I'd like to be the first double gun owner to put his money where his mouth is, Let me know where to send the check and who to make it payable to. It's time to get the next crop planted. This society can't die with us.

[allen newell]

Merit or not this is something that the PGCA Board may want to take up for discussion and action if it feels there's sufficient merit and support within the organization. If the Board decides to establish a PGCA scholarship fund for our youth who wish to learn the art and pursue a career in gunmaking/gunsmithing I will gladly contribute to such fund. The Board could ask a number of interested senior PGCA Members to form a scholarship committee to develop and propose a set of guidelines and objectives for developing a fund and implementing same. If this were to come about, I would commit to contribute $500 to the pot (and forgo a few sins for the next few years!). My 2 cents.

[Eric Eis]

I think if we could fund the NRA ten grand for a couple of years we should be able to help with a scholarship for some young person to keep this art alive.

[Jeff Kuss]

I think that this may be a project for the PGCA Foundation. I believe that a fund could be set up with the foundation to fund a scholarship.
Jeff

[Dean Romig]

We continuously try to keep a cap on expenses despite the fact that those expenses that we have been absorbing for years continue to escalate with each new year... even more often in some cases. I don't pretend to speak for the Board of Directors nor especially for our treasurer Allan Swanson and CFO Mike McKinney but we are all very aware of where and how your money is spent. Such suggestions, even seemingly worthy ones like this suggestion of Allen's will warrant considerable discussion by the BOD and nobody can predict the outcome of such a discussion at this point. Our Annual Membership fee is a true bargain and the last thing we want to do is to raise it because there is a large silent core of members who are not connected to the internet and have no idea these discussions are going on... and despite all the positive responses here on the forum - there are probably a great number of 'silent' members who may not be in agreement. Your BOD has to be ever watchful of expenses bucause we owe it to ALL members.

[Bruce Day]

the annual membership fee of $40, about what it takes to fill a Honda, barely covers the cost of Parker Pages. By tradition, directors and those who some have termed "the inner circle" have covered all their expenses themselves without any recompense by the PGCA .

[Jeff Kuss]

Dean,
I would expect that such a fund would be a stand alone fund that members would donate to. I would not expect that it would come from the general fund.
Jeff

[allen newell]

Jeff, that was my thinking as well. If the PGCA BOD were to decide this would be in the interests of the PGCA to promote, it should be funded from individual donations and not from the PGCA's operating revenues. At various PGCA events, we could also solicit donations.

[Bill Zachow]

Have the Bod consider setting it up as a function of the Parker Foundation which was established some years ago. Also, the PGCA had a fair amount of uncommitted funds (in excess of $100,000 3 or 4 years ago). What is the financial status today?

[Rich Anderson]

As a PGCA member I don't recall ever getting a copy of a financial statement to see where the organization spends it's money or how much is in the treasury. $100K in uncomitted funds:shock: In today's political climate of gun grabbing politicians we need to promote not only the nich market that is the PGCA but also foster new generations of firearm enthusiasts. Just as there is a finite number of Parkers we need in isure that there will not become a finite number of people that enjoy them.
The idea of a scholarship to a gunsmithing trade school is a great idea and if it's supported by the PGCA and funded by contributions from both members and non members than it's a win win for everyone.

[greg conomos]

"The existing assault is on assault weapons, high capacity clips and those wanna be GI Joe's that play in that pool."

Wow, talk about divide and conquer working at it's finest. You're not looking very far into the deck if you think that's all that's going on. First they go after that crowd - then you're next. Don't kid yourself to think otherwise.

It's like they say - you peel an onion one layer at a time.

[Bill Zachow]

Yes, our organization did donate $10,000 to the NRA. I was there and saw the check presented.

[John Dallas]

I've been a member of, and chaired a number of 501(c3) organizations (OK, I realize PGCA is not a charity) but an surprised that the finances of our organization are not open to the members who pay dies.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I think it is a good idea to fund it with donations from the membership, We need this interest in double guns to pass to the next generation, Did not know if any one has noticed but the membership is greying rapidly! Gary

[Pete Lester]

The organizations finances are matter of public record (IRS Form 990) available to anyone as the PGCA is a 501(c)7 organization in the states of VT, MN and VA over the years.

This is easy information to find but it will be 2 years behind at best.

[Tom Carter]

When you say sponsor a youth in gunsmithing, what age group are you refering to? Gunsmithing schools are trade schools with some students minimum ages around 20 years old, and right out of high school. Not old enough to own a hand gun. The course of instruction covers all aspects of gunsmithing. I am not particularly interested in sponsoring a student to study AR-15's. I would be interested in sponsoring a student who participated in an extended specified course of study on side by side shotguns taught by a well qualified instructor like Dennis Potter or someone of his caliber and I don't especially care how old the student is as long as the student has productive years left.
I have looked for such a course on side by sides for several years and all I can find are 2 week NRA courses at Trinidad, Colorado. Montgomery Community College in Troy, North Carolina, has an excellent gunsmithing course but they can't find an instructor to teach the 2 week NRA side by side course.
Something to consider might be an internship for a promising student at one of our better gunsmiths after the student graduates from the gunsmith school. A 12 month internship with emphasis on side by side shotguns should produce a pretty gun gunsmith. And if you would want to establish a maximum age, great.

Just an old man think out loud.
Cheers, Tom

[Robin Lewis]

Have you looked here....
http://www.pagunsmith.edu/index.php

[Robin Lewis]

The organizations finances are matter of public record (IRS Form 990) available to anyone as the PGCA is a 501(c)7 organization in the states of VT, MN and VA over the years.

This is easy information to find but it will be 2 years behind at best.

Not out of date at all! This is found on the web at
http://nonprofitdirectory.com/vermont/windsor-county/springfield/the-parker-gun-collectors-association-incorporated/541725809

IRS Financial Data for 2011:
Assets: $247,009.00
Income: $84,158.00
990 Revenue (http://nonprofitdirectory.com/glossary): $68,745.00

[Pete Lester]

We continuously try to keep a cap on expenses despite the fact that those expenses that we have been absorbing for years continue to escalate with each new year... even more often in some cases. I don't pretend to speak for the Board of Directors nor especially for our treasurer Allan Swanson and CFO Mike McKinney but we are all very aware of where and how your money is spent. Such suggestions, even seemingly worthy ones like this suggestion of Allen's will warrant considerable discussion by the BOD and nobody can predict the outcome of such a discussion at this point. Our Annual Membership fee is a true bargain and the last thing we want to do is to raise it because there is a large silent core of members who are not connected to the internet and have no idea these discussions are going on... and despite all the positive responses here on the forum - there are probably a great number of 'silent' members who may not be in agreement. Your BOD has to be ever watchful of expenses bucause we owe it to ALL members.

Dean I think the BOD has done a remarkable job, looking at the "books" from 2004-2010 shows we have been sailing on a pretty even keel, with a net revenue in the black in 5 out of those 7 years, and + far exceeded the - overall for the period. The 990's show net assets are 142% greater at the end of 2010 from the start of 2004.

[Dennis V. Nix]

Forgive me but I am thinking out loud here; what about somebody such as Keith Kearcher or Brad Batchelder who are already recognized gunsmiths who deal with double guns to possibly take somebody who is interested in double guns to train that person such as an apprentice. I don't mean Brad or Keith necessarily but somebody in that capacity who does the type of work they do. It would sure save money for the membership and might be a great find for the gunsmith and for the membership over the years. Obviously I am not speaking for anybody but myself but that seems to me like a better idea than sponsoring somebody on a scholarship to a gunsmithing school.
I sure hope this makes sense.

Dennis

[Tom Carter]

Hi Robin, Thank you. Yes I did, but it was a few years ago. And like the others, very little on side by side shotguns. Very good coverage on handguns, bolt action rifles, auto loading shotguns over/unders, and black guns. There just is not very much formal instruction out there for those wanting to learn side by side shotguns.

If our group is serious about this I suggest we sponsor an internship for a graduate from a gunsmithing school for about $6000 a year ($500 a month) to help cover living expenses. The gunsmith would pay the intern some salary and we would supplement that salary. Establish a committee to develope an application and qualifications and send an announcement and application to all the recognized gunsmithing schools. I think we would need a contract with the sponsoring gunsmith saying the intern would have to spend X amount of time on side by side shotguns. I don't think there is enough time for this graduating year but 2014 could work. I would certainly donate to that.

Cheers, Tom

PS: I don't think this money should come directly from the PGCA. I think it should come from donations from members and the PGCA should recognize these members in some fashon.

[Robin Lewis]

Text deleted.

[Pete Lester]

Yes, our organization did donate $10,000 to the NRA. I was there and saw the check presented.

I would keep this very quiet in the current political environment as it could jeopardize the non profit status 501(c)7 of the PGCA. The two things a non profit is prohibited from doing is transfering any profits to a private individual or shareholder and actively lobby for or against a political candidate. I don't know if financial support to the NRA, which lobbied against the re-election of the President would be a violation but it's close enough a case could be made.

[John Davis]

As I recall, the donation was made to a 501 (c) 3 arm of the NRA.

[allen newell]

We have a few lawyer Members who could advise on this question. But let's try to keep this discussion on the merits of whether or not the PGCA should consider establishing a scholarship fund as previously proposed. I have served on a number of Boards and know full well that this is ultimately a matter for the PGCA Board/Powers That Be to take up for consideration or not. A healthy discussion and even debate on this idea within this Forum will be productive and may serve to guide the Board. Boards do benefit from knowing the sentiments of their organization's members and are often guided by them as they deliberate in determining what is in the best interests of their organizations.

[Pete Lester]

Personnally I would rather see the PGCA sponsor any youth shooting in any recognized double gun event, the Southern, Northeast Side by Side Championship, Vintagers shoots etc as way to educate and support their interest and use of American classic double guns. It could be a competitve scholarship of sorts where we pay entry fees and shells and perhaps a daily per diem to those selected.

[David Weber]

Personnally I would rather see the PGCA sponsor any youth shooting in any recognized double gun event, the Southern, Northeast Side by Side Championship, Vintagers shoots etc as way to educate and support their interest and use of American classic double guns. It could be a competitve scholarship of sorts where we pay entry fees and shells and perhaps a daily per diem to those selected.

PGCA Goals are:

Promote Parker Shotgun Collecting;

Publish our quarterly membership journal: Parker Pages;

Obtain the Parker records and offer a factory-type Letter to authenticate Parkers;

Provide members with a forum for their Parker research; and

Conduct an Annual Meeting.


Nothing in there about shooting events.

[Bruce Day]

Personnally I would rather see the PGCA sponsor any PGCA LIFETIME SENIOR AND THEIR GRANDCHILD in any recognized MIDWESTERN double gun event, the DULUTH DOUBLE GUN CLASSIC, SHOW-ME CLASSIC, etc as way to educate and support their interest and use of American classic double guns. It could be a competitve scholarship of sorts where we pay entry fees and shells and perhaps a daily per diem to those selected.


Fixed it for you.:)

[Pete Lester]

PGCA Goals are:

Promote Parker Shotgun Collecting;

Publish our quarterly membership journal: Parker Pages;

Obtain the Parker records and offer a factory-type Letter to authenticate Parkers;

Provide members with a forum for their Parker research; and

Conduct an Annual Meeting.


Nothing in there about shooting events.

Nor is there anything in there about gunsmithing school. Like any organization with income and assets, goals can be expanded or reduced as finances allow. However sponsorship of a youth interested in learning more and shooting a Parker in competition would seem to fit under "Promoting Parker Shotgun Collecting" listed above.

[Bruce Day]

Hard to make money, easy to spend it.

Twenty years it took to build a comfortable pad through the hard work of a handful of people in order that the association might survive a hard time or be prepared for the unexpected. Thankfully we have tightfisted stewards who guard our assets.

If a person wants to be involved in a scholarship, there is always the Oscar Gaddy Fund. Donate to that, although we never could generate much interest in that beyond a talking phase, and it drew plenty of discussion when Dr.Gaddy passed, about how people were going to fund gunsmithing, young shooters, etc. Day after day of talk about how much money was going to pour in, and much discussion about a board to administer it. In the end; $1000, and the talk moved on to another subject.

[King Brown]

You just lost me for a life membership. I've been considering it seriously for my years of enjoyment here. I'd contribute to a scholarship. Not to one of the most influential and well-heeled lobbies in Washington. I am not an admirer of NRA's leadership. I have no fears for the integrity of your Second Amendment on the evidence of a national debate about GI Joe wannabes, background checks and magazines. Twenty life memberships will pay for your $10,000 NRA gift and with my luck one of those would be mine.

[Bruce Day]

King, the PGCA money did not go to the political action arm which is the one with tactics and statements that many find fault with. The PGCA money went to the charitable education side of the NRA that funds youth shoots, marksmanship training etc. I am involved with Boy Scout shooting sports and we partner with the NRA side that received the PGCA donation.

The NRA is not all black guns and rhetoric, regardless of where a person comes down on the gun control issues.

Also, on an accounting basis, at least when I was on the board, we set aside life member funds from general revenues knowing that they would eventually be used up , and depending upon longevity, perhaps even a loss. Dollars that were available for other than Parker Pages expenses were derived from raffle ticket sales and other income. Not being an accountant, perhaps I haven't used the proper terms, but that's the concept. So no, your life member money doesn't get sent to the NRA, not even the NRA education side. That is the status as I know it.

[allen newell]

"Some men see things as they are and ask why I dream things that never were and ask why not" (George Bernard Shaw)