the silent auction 8 ga

[charlie cleveland]

as most of us know there was a 8 ga parker in the silent auction ...well MILLS won that auction...as most know this gun was in the worst shape a parker could get in...it hadmore wiggle in it than a red worm trying to be threaded on a hook...seriosly there was a 3/16 gap between the barrel and breech face...there was a bent loop made out of 1/2 wide steel band that slipped on the barrels and down to the britch to keep the gun from opening...the gun would open and closed but there was very much play side to side...the barrels were so rusty you could not force a shell into the barrels...i would safely say this gun had not been fired in90years or better...you just cant imagine how this old gun was treated and abused...the stock has lots of breaks in it...a sheet of copper was used with nails and srews to strenthen the stock then they took copper wire and wrapped it around the copper patch and stock. then they silver soilder that wire all over.. it made for a very unusal patch but a strong one...surprizingly the hammers and firing pins worked pretty good... the barrels were 34 inch when they left the factory but are now 27 inches...the top rib has been replaced with a half inch tall piece of iron bar stock and has at least 2 lbs of silver soilder on the top rib and bottom of barrels.. the bottom of the barrels were the barrel latch is located had 1/4 inch of slack in it the weld had broke loose... MILLSwas really happy with this gun and was going to try and get it in shooting shape so he carried it down to DARLINGTON GUN WORKS AND THEY TOLD HIM IT WAS NOT WORTH FIXING...ANDi guess they were right money wise...so i had asked MILLS about the gun and he let me have the gun...... so i m gonna try to fix it.... charlie

[Rick Losey]

way to go Charlie

pictures as you go please

[charlie cleveland]

well after breakfast i grabbed the old 8 ga fishtail and went to the shop...i first broke the gun down...the barrel latch and the ejectors would move 1/4 inch they just slid back and forth on the barrels...i lined them up and center punched them then i welded them in place...then after about 2hours of filing and fitting they were back in good shape...next i worked on getting shells to go into the barrels okthis was another hour....i then cleaned out the barrels with a 10 ga copper brush...30 minutes doing this i then fitted paper shims to the barrel lugs and the forearm musta took an hour doing this...i know metal shims will soon be put there...i then loaded the hulls and fired them 3 times each in the barrels...i had a problem with the ls fireing pin sticking in the primer but soon had that fixed...well i deemed the barrels plenth thick and safe to try and shoot...i used tripple 7 a black powder substitute...first i started out with 30 grains shgot ok but like shooting a 22 no recoil..i then upped it to forty grains and a 1 1/4 ounce of bb shot...set up can at 35 steps the old gun really rolled that can...next i upped the powder to 50 grains and 1 1/4 ounce of bbs.... had a old mailbox so uesd it as a target at 35 steps...manif that had a been a turkey it woulda been all over for him....put those bbs thru and thru that mailbox... still got a lot of work to do to it but hay ive brught back another old parker from the grave... and its a 8 ga to boot... more as progress lets me... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

I've seen the gun and Charlie's description was benign. It is much worse. However, if someone would be interested in a Test Fire with the replacement breeching mechanism in place, I would be willing to conduct the test fire and get a video to prove that such a gun could be safely fired. Let me know. I have the ammunition for a Sherman Bell type test but not to the level of destruction. My opinion is that this gun, if brought up to a level of fairly close headspace, would survive testing. What a video to show at a PGCA annual meeting.

[Mills Morrison]

Charlie reports that the gun is back on face and has been fired without the loss of any bodily parts. In fact, it is on schedule for another test fire.

[Mike Franzen]

Is this the 8 gauge wreck that was on Gunbroker a couple years ago?

[charlie cleveland]

it is the same gun.got given to the pga some way...they put it in the silent auction and MILLS won it and let me have it...sure wish i hada kept up with who first had this gun woulda liked to know some of its life history... charlie

[Mike Franzen]

I bid $600 on the gun and was high bidder. Never could get a reply from the seller about buying it. I might have some info from that auction. If I can find it I'll pass it on if you like.

[Mills Morrison]

I am sure the turkeys and deer are less excited about this than we are.

[Bill Zachow]

Charlie, you da man!!!!!

[allen newell]

Bill Murphy said: "What a video to show at a PGCA annual meeting." This is just the kind of video that would be great to show at various sporting show events where the PGCA has a booth. And videos depicting the restoration of this Parker or any Parker fo that mater would underscore the very reason for PGCA's existence and would help to communicate the message to the visitors at these events that these old double guns are a national treasure and worth the saving. Just my 2 cents

[charlie cleveland]

mike i would like to have this info if you still have it... i also bid on this gun too 500...dont remember the final bid but i remember it did not reach the untold reserve...wonder how the PGA got it....lots of questions on this old gun it sure has seen a lot more hard action than any old clunker ive ever had... charlie

[Mills Morrison]

I have a video of the gun in its "before" state that I would be happy to contribute. It is not too pretty and makes it all that more amazing that Charlie has it working.

[Chuck Bishop]

Do you believe in miracles? This restoration will be one. Best of luck to you Charlie, it will be a real project!

[edgarspencer]

Charlie, you crack me up. I had a pint of syrup boxed up for you, but changed my mind and am sending you a quart. I swear, you are the new Popcorn Sutton.

[Dave Suponski]

Okay...I give up. Who is Popcorn Sutton?

[allen newell]

Dave
He was I believe a now deceased Moonshiner!
A

[charlie cleveland]

thanks edgar a quart is alkways better than a pint.... fellows i m not restoring this old gun all ive done is get it back on face and tighen it up with shims...first i dont have the money to restore this old gun...the old gun was in a sad state but it is in shooting shape now...bout any of you with a welder and a file could have fixed this old gun to the point i have it..charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Charlie, that's exactly what I had in mind. We would like to see a video of the test fire with "before" pictures in the introduction.

[Mills Morrison]

What Charlie is doing is exactly what this old gun needs - a restoration to shooting condition, but otherwise leaving the character it has acquired in its hard life.

PS: Nothing beats some good 'shine either

[charlie cleveland]

if mills has a viedo what it looks like before it was worked on an can show it i will get my wife or somebody to viedo the test fire... ive still got to put steel shims in some ares will also try to get this in the viedo.. bill im gl.ad you and others thought of this viedo. does gun need to show work done on the viedogive me some ideas fellas...charlie

[Marc Retallack]

Okay...I give up. Who is Popcorn Sutton?

Dave, just one of many youtube videos of Popcorn Sutton http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsLRW_XqOzc If you ever have a chance to watch the entire length of "The Last One", be careful, you may find yourself wanting to sneak off to some secluded spot in the New England woods to do things your government deems unfit. Oh, that's right, many of us are already doing that...

Cheers
Marcus

[Dave Suponski]

Thanks Marc!

[Mills Morrison]

Here are a few "before" photos. Note the C-clamp marks on the stock. These marks are on both sides of the stock and the theory is that the gun was clamped down on the end of a boat as a punt gun or battery gun.

[Mills Morrison]

Here are the photos. Computer ate them in the last post. :throw:

[Rick Losey]

nice umm :rolleyes: patina :rotf:

[Mike Franzen]

That gun was strictly somebody's tool. It wasn't a collector piece, an heirloom or an investment. It was probably an essential component to someone's livelihood and survival. I don't think I've ever seen a gun that speaks of it's past like this one does. It is unique and if you're able to get back to shootin shape then you have restored it to it's intended purpose. I hope you never take it any farther than that. I love that gun!

[Mike McKinney]

Dave,
Popcorn Sutton spent most of his life in Maggie Valley. He was the self proclaimed "best moonshiner" in this area and promoted himself through his videos which really is a chamber of commerce statement for our mountains--pun intended. I think there is a TV show, possibly called "The Moonshiners" that airs in your part of the world as well as here.
Mike

[Eldon Goddard]

I love it. If you can get pictures of the test fire that would be something to see.

[Dean Romig]

More pictures of Charlie's 8



.

[Dean Romig]

And a few more pics of the Big 8




.

[Eric Eis]

Wow.... That is a project....:shock:

[George M. Purtill]

It just goes to show you how well built Parkers are.
And I am so glad Mr. Eight Bore has this gun.
Charlie- what are the chambers? 3 1/2?

[charlie cleveland]

thanks DEAN.... boys this old gal has lived a rough life in my book..wish she could tail us her past adventures...does anybody out there know any history at all about this old gun... we know she was sold in CALIFORNI and has been to the PGA and to visit MILLS IN GEORGIA and then to se me in MISSISSIPPI...HOPE TO FILL IN SOME GAPS... charlie

[charlie cleveland]

GEORGE i have not got to measure the chambers as of yet but i suspect 3 1/4 inch...hope ther longer just for the sake of it ...always wanted a 4 inch chamber gun but dont think this is it.... charlie

[Mills Morrison]

My new plan is to save up and get a Parker 8 gauge in original used condition. What I really want is a hammerless with uncut barrels that does not need too much work to get shooting. I say that but Charlie had this one working faster than most gunsmiths can open chokes. Have a long way to go on my fundraiser, but Charlie's check was the first step.

[Mills Morrison]

Here are two links to the first appearances of this gun on the internet.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-590742.html

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4240

[George M. Purtill]

My new plan is to save up and get a Parker 8 gauge in original used condition. Have a long way to go, but Charlie's check was the first step.

You will have to save more for that Guerini!

[Bill Murphy]

I would like to see a closeup picture of the breech after Charlie fixed the headspace issue.

[Mills Morrison]

You will have to save more for that Guerini!


That seems to be passing. It actually irritated me that the guy dumped on Julia's guns that she enjoys shooting and which fit her just fine. All he was trying to do was sell her a gun and I think she realizes that.

[Eldon Goddard]

Charlie are you cleaning up that soder or are you going to leave it as is?

[Dean Romig]

The only history I can offer is pure speculation, but here goes ----

On both sides of the stock atr circular depressions pressed into the wood in nearly the same spots. They are about 1/2" diameter in size and there are an equal number of them per side. I believe the gun was clamped into some kind of mount and possibly used as a punt gun. Again - this is just speculation... for what it's worth.

[charlie cleveland]

i will leave the soilder as it is only thing ive done is weld the britch block back in place on gun...still got to make some shims to put on main roll pin ansome on the fore arm..only thing i removed is the homemade barrel band...but i am keeping this with gun...have tested the gun with 50 grains of triple 7 but will up it to 60 and then 70...will do this in the viedo of the old gun being test fired again...its been to cold today to work on the old gun all ive wanted to do today is talk and look at the old gun today... charlie

[Ed Blake]

How in the world does something become that beat up? It's like someone was trying to wreck it.

[edgarspencer]

How in the world does something become that beat up? It's like someone was trying to wreck it.

Marry my ex wife, you'll find out.

[Rick Losey]

Marry my ex wife, you'll find out.

so - you're saying I am better off not knowing what happened to the missing stuff from those dark days.

[Bill Murphy]

Charlie, don't mess with that solder. It is the best thing the previous owner could have done for it.

[Mike Franzen]

...wonder how the PGA got it....lots of questions on this old gun it sure has seen a lot more hard action than any old clunker ive ever had... charlie[/QUOTE]

I'll bet Bill Murphy might know how the PGCA got it.

[Dean Romig]

It was donated to the PGCA for the silent auction. It arrived at my house in July of 2012 from the west coast. The shipping cost was something like $57 not to mention the expense that went into the box and packing required for a 12 lb. gun. The person who donated it bought it hoping to be able to resurrect it but when he considered all that would be required to do so he chose to move it along. I think we saw pictures of it here on the forum about three years ago.

[charlie cleveland]

well we know now that the old gun was sold in california and came from the west in 2012...lots of gaps to fill in on the old gun....mike has the gunbroker auction of this gun he thinks and mills has the vidio in its old state of repair... so when we get the proof testing on vidio and a little more info put together this should make for a pretty good storey..but all of our old guns have good or bad storeys behind them... charlie

[Mills Morrison]

One of the old links said that it had been sitting in a barn in New York state for some number of years. It is interesting how these guns move around. The best part of getting a research letter is finding out where it began its shooting career and imagining what hunts it must have been on in the early years.

[George M. Purtill]

The best part of getting a research letter is finding out where it began its shooting career and imagining what hunts it must have been on in the early years.

There is no doubt that a letter is the best place to start for a provenance buildout. we are so fortunate to have the records we have. I just wish those scoundrels who have the missing books would return them.

[Ken Descovich]

I am the fellow that donated the 8 ga. to the silent auction, when I purchased it (as Dean had mentioned) I had some hope of resurecting this shotgun but quickly realized that I neither had the skill or the money to pay to have it restored.
I figured that the best place for this shotgun was to auction it off to a lover of Parker shotguns plus help the Parker collectors association in the process. I do not have any history on this gun other then that I owned it for a short period of time. I am pleased that Charlie has got her shooting again and please keep us updated on any further progress.:)

Ken Descovich

[Mike Franzen]

Charlie I don't have the auction info anymore. It was lost when I formatted the hard drive. But, maybe Ken can tell you who he got the gun from and go from there. I'll be happy to help any way I can. I think you have something real special in that old gun.

[Mills Morrison]

There was a D Grade 8 gauge hammer gun on Shotgunworld a while back. Does anybody know what became of it? It was quite a beautiful gun.

[charlie cleveland]

we have a letter for the old 8 ga silent auction gun....we know it was ordered byE. T. ALLEN OF SAN FRANCISCO CALF.. know that it was on gunbroker know that KEN DESCOVICH got it then donared it to the PGA then MILLS won the auction then MILLS let me have it...then we know its been shot 6 times so far...thanks fellows for all the info so far...im trying to get some of the pieces of the old guns storey together looks like the old gal has had a long hard road...maybe she ll see a hunt for turkeys this year who knows... charlie

[charlie cleveland]

this old 8 ga is marked in the parker letter as a R QUALITY GRADE GUN... i know this gun is just a plain jane maybe a o grade gun..but why did they call it a r grade in the letter... anybody know what the r grade stands for... charlie

[George M. Purtill]

this old 8 ga is marked in the parker letter as a R QUALITY GRADE GUN... i know this gun is just a plain jane maybe a o grade gun..but why did they call it a r grade in the letter... anybody know what the r grade stands for... charlie

I think someone just answered this question in another thread Charlie. Its about the XU grade gun.

[Mills Morrison]

According to the Parker Story, Quality R was 0 Grade, pistol grip, twist barrels, manufactured between 1882 and 1918.

[Bill Murphy]

Charlie, E.T. Allen was an outfitter and sporting goods dealer at 416 Market Street from at least the late 1870s to the late 1890s. He was quite the Parker dealer, sending Parkers to other parts of the country as well as California. He must have advertised in the sporting press of the day. He ordered loading tools as well as parts from Parker Brothers. One 1890 order in my junk pile was for 30 extracters for the new hammerless guns, 20 in ten gauge and 10 in 12 gauge. Parker billed him a buck each. He must have thought they were going to break often. Allen made or marketed Bowie knives and other knives under his own trade name, "CLUB" I hope this helps with the history of your new gun. How are your hulls holding up?

[Bill Murphy]

Parker salesman Arthur W. DuBray bunked up at the Sutter Hotel just a couple of blocks from E.T. Allen. I'm sure there was quite a bit of contact between the two. Unfortunately, I don't recall DuBray's period of residence in San Francisco.