Interpret this

[Chuck Bishop]

I'm doing a research letter on this 16ga gun. Here is an entry in the Order Book for the repair. I'm not sure exactly what it says and what it might mean. Opinions welcome!

The owner indicates that the barrels are now 25 1/2", they were originally 26". I'm thinking this indicates that there was damage to the muzzles and they were factory shortened to 25 1/2". Why wouldn't they just say muzzles damaged, shorten them?

[Robert Beach]

Chuck,

Appears to me to read "Whole Gun" (entire gun sent in for repair rather than just a part), then "Bbls Stretched at Muzzles"

This is a challenge that I run into with some frequency when reading our archived ledgers. The handwriting can be beautiful but difficult to interpret.

Bob Beach
Griffin & Howe, Inc.

[Richard Flanders]

That's what it looks like to me also.

[Chuck Bishop]

Bob, that's what I'm thinking too. They used the word "stretched", we commonly use "bulged." This is the first time I've seen this type of notation.

[will evans]

I see the same thing - whole gun bbl stretched at muzzles.

[Bill Murphy]

I believe there was some kind of bulge that had to be cut off. At least we know that the factory probably did the cutting.

[Dave Suponski]

Chuck, I agree with the guy's. Muzzles stretched.

[Dean Romig]

I find it hard to believe that somehow somewhere in the last 1/2 inch the barrels developed a bulge. I find it more believable that the barrels, or at least one tube got dented or possibly something was forced into or against the muzzle causing the metal to be "stretched" or distorted.

[George M. Purtill]

How in tarnation does a muzzle get stretched?

[greg conomos]

Probably the gun had been ordered with 26" barrels, and they accidentally cut a little too much off, so they just planned to stretch out what was left to make up the difference. I suspect this was back in the old days, when they still knew how to do such things.

[Rich Anderson]

My interpretation is he shouldn't drink befor making notes:rotf:

[John Truitt]

Looks about like my hand writing, maybe better.

I agree with Mr. Beach's interpretation.

I am curious about the time frame of this ledger. Remember that terminology was different back in the day. Cursive was the norm. Heak they are not even teaching it in school anymore these days.

The old boys used alot of different terms. For example ever look at chemicals from that time or a chemical receipt written back then. They called stuff by common names or made up names but very rarely by the elemental table listing.
There was probably some gun jargon/ slang that these guys used as well.

IMO looking back at these ledgers and books and personal memiors is some really great fun. It is a puzzle sometimes but once you break the code you really can learn some stuff.

But I can also get Mr Bishops frustation. My hat is off to you sir and thank you for all of you hard work with the letters.

John

[Chuck Bishop]

I think we pretty much agree that some type of damage was done to the very end of the barrels and 1/2 inch was cut off at the factory. The problem with reading their writing is that they used fountain pens which made the lines thick and couple this with the style of writing and how they formed their letters back in those days does make it a challenge. There also extraneous marks such as dots and other marks, probably dirt or something else that was then copied when the records were copied. The first word "Whole" could be read as White but it wouldn't make sense. Also note the small dash through the "o" and a small mark at the "l" which could have been interpreted as a "t", and the "e" at the end of the word could be a "r". Also note in the word "stretched", the first "e" is the old style of "e" and the last "e" is the newer style.

Thanks for everyone's help.

[Chuck Bishop]

I agree Jent, I handled that gun. More than 1/2" was damaged on that gun!

[George M. Purtill]

My interpretation is he shouldn't drink befor making notes:rotf:

I'm thinking hemp. They are so laid back.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

There you go george, gongha thats was the cause!

[Fred Verry]

Chuck, my first impression is that it said white gun barrel scratched at muzzles and the long cross stroke is only meant for the t. Barrels in the white before blacking. The abbreviation of barrels and a letter maybe left out of scratched looks like some of the notes I write when in a hurry.

[tom leshinsky]

may have been stretched when someone shot a slug and blew out the choke.

[Bill Murphy]

Chuck, what is the date of that order book entry. It looks fairly late.

[Chuck Bishop]

Bill, it's in the Repairs order book #80, Aug of 1910

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Chuck, It takes a while to decipher the old script, Ron Kirby said he would look at an entry several times he finally sort of broke the code so to speak and was very proficient at reading it in the end. Sorry he is no longer involved he is a good man and dedicated to his work, My two cents Gary

[George M. Purtill]

Sorry he is no longer involved he is a good man and dedicated to his work, My two cents Gary

I would say that was about a buck's worth. But most forum members dont know who the hell you are talking about!

[Bruce Day]

The PGCA would have died an early death if it had been left in those hands. As it is now we have 1200 members and we are a strong organization.

If you want to continue this off web, call me. Opinions differ.

[Bill Murphy]

Mr. Kirby learned to decipher the Parker records at the same rate as the other members of the 1997 and 1998 PGCA Research Committee, no faster, no slower. Mark Conrad spent more time in the books than anyone and read more pages than anyone. Consequently, he knows more about the books than anyone. For once, oh, maybe twice, I agree with Bruce. Of course, Mr. Kirby was not PGCA's only problem child in those days, but he was a problem.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

We still have our problem children even today. Bruce knows all the dirty secrets, talk to him off the web and perhaps he'll initiate you into the "Inner Circle of Parkerdom"......

DLH

[Pete Lester]

My first contact with anyone in the PGCA was Ron Kirby back in 2001. It was an extremely positive experience that encouraged me to join the PGCA. He took a lot of time and went above and beyond for a new guy with just a Trojan at the time. Mark Conrad went above and beyond with an odd VH I acquired. As a member I have appreciated what both men have done for me and I look forward to future interactions with Chuck.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I did not know that this was still a hot potato or I would not have mentioned the name. I surely do not intend to rub salt in the wound, Just was sort of in the conversation about reading old records. I for one do not want to do anything to hurt this fine organization, as I try to promote it every chance I get. Sorry I stepped on toes, Gary

[Dean Romig]

Yes you do Gary and you do it with style and humility.

Thanks for all you do!

[Chuck Bishop]

I have never met Mr. Kirby but we can be thankful that he kept many pages of letters and faxes from the early days of the PGCA. They are now part of the PGCA library at my house.

[Bill Murphy]

I give Mr. Kirby credit on a regular basis for his hard work and interest. He gave me a VHE .410 Skeet Gun even after we had some differences of opinion. He had many good traits, but finally succumbed to the bad ones, not an uncommon malady.

[Rich Anderson]

Bill, I also have good traits....and some bad ones and I could use a VHE 410 skeet. you have my address:rotf:

I never had any dealings with Mr. Kirby but one must give credit where credit is due and I'm sure we wouldn't be where we are today as an organization without the effort he and others put in.