Restoring Henry F. Tenney's Wife's VHE

[allen newell]

The double I received the other day and purchased from a friend of the family (who just wanted to unload it) turns out to be a VHE, not the VH he initially told me. Turns out this double belonged to the wife of Lawyer Tenney. The LOP measures out to about 13 inches. The stock was apparently cut and a Jostam or Hawkins recoil pad was installed for the Mrs. The pad is now gone and all that remains is the red spacer. I need at least 14 1/2 " of LOP to shoot this double comfortably. I'm sending it to Brad Bachelder next week to have Brad refinish stock and forearm, dissassemble, clean and lube, replace missing mid rib ivory bead and install a new recoil pad. Will be talking with Brad after he receives this double about merits of doing a total restocking, or adding some wood to butt end or go with a 1 1/2" suitable recoil pad to give me most of the LOP I need to shoot this double without recoil killing my index finger each time it fires - shorter stocks tend to do this to me. Apart from the stock having been cut short for the Mrs., the wood is like new except for a few dings here and there and a shade line on the butt end where it looks like someone had something like a limsaver slip on boot over the butt end which left the finish with a discoloration line. I'll include some pics. $$ is not the issue. Any thoughts from the gallery on what fix on the stock would you recommend. I really appreciate all the thought and experience PGCA members show in their replies on this forum. This double is tight as a safe. Barrels bright. and case colors are probablt around 50%. I intend for this to be a shooter and something to leave my grandson. Bite the bullet and go for total restocking or what?

[allen newell]

stock pics. The second pic shows where I believe something like a Limbsaver slip on pad might have been on this butt. see discoloration.

[John Campbell]

If the gun were mine, I would add a black spacer beneath a period pad to lengthen the pull. Those pads with simply "more rubber" look odd to my eye.

Adding wood will be VERY obvious unless it is grained into the existing stock... which is itself fairly plain.

Bachelder can do any of this.

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, that gun is high original condition and shouldn't be restocked. 1/2" black spacer under a Griffin and Howe repro Silvers pad, properly installed. Personally, I would install the pad without the spacers and use a boot when shooting it. However, I do have a nice Parker with two spacers and a Silvers that I had installed in 1986 and I like it a lot.

[Brian Dudley]

I recently put a recoil pad on a Lefever which had that same type of red spacer nailed onto it. Just like yours. Odd. I pulled all the nails and ditched the spacer for a new pad.

Anyway... By all means, the best solution to your issue is to put on a 1.5" silvers pad from galazan. It will look right on the gun and it will get you out to be lop that you need.

Adding a wood extension can be done, but it woul have to be worked over by someone like Larson to look right. And restocking is a lot of money for an easily fixable problem. Believe me, I know all about that... But it all depends on what you are looking for.

Very nice gun though! I think a silvers pad would be perfect on it.

[allen newell]

First off, thanks to all for their thoughts and recommendations. I took the VHE to the NE Show today and showed it to Edgar and George. They're opinions are consistent with yours. Don't mess with the VHE, install a period appropriate recoil pad and enjoy it. Edgar was kind enough to give me one of his Hawkins pads which can be fitted to the butt stock easily enough. We'll keep the wood and maybe just tweak the finish a bit to smooth out the discoloration that's on one side of the stock.

[allen newell]

This is an update on this 'restoration'. I sent the VHE last week to Brad Bachelder. I had heard so many good things on this forum about Brad's work that I thought I'd give his shop a shot at this double. After receiving the gun and per my letter of instruction, Brad called me to discuss his findings. He had taken the gun down and was ready to go over his findings. I was struck and very impressed with the level of detail as Brad reviewed the condition of the VHE from stem to sterm. Very thorough and professional. We talked about how thew restoration work would be done from refinishing the stock, de-oiling those part of the wood that showed oil etc, bedding, re-cutting the checkering, 'striking' certain parts of the external surfaces of the barrels that showed some minor pitting and the depth of the metal etc, fixing a small deformity in one choke, cleaning and lubrication of all internal parts, checking out the ejectors, springs. etc. etc. I was left with the feeling that this double is in very good hands and will be restored in the most professional and period appropriate manner. Some of my PGCA brothers have asked me in their pm's to let them know how this turns out. This is just an interim update. Will post pics when Brad finishes the work we've jointly agreed makes sense to do. But I am really feeling good about the choice I've made. one.

[Dean Romig]

I would have put the Silvers pad on it, touched up the finish where the slip-on had compromised it and left everything else as is... but then, it's not my gun.

[allen newell]

I gave that a lot of thought Dean but I'm doing this as much for my own use and enjoyment as I am for my grandson who will one day inherit it. What Brad is going to do will preserve this double for several more generations of use. We are putting a Silvers pad on it and i'll give edgar back the Hawkins pad he graciously offered to me for the VHE. I just like the look of the solid pad more and I think that over the long term it will hold up fine.

[edgarspencer]

Brad will do a nice job on the gun, and you'll like it when you get it back. Unfortunately, no one will know whether it was a 10% gun before refinishing, or, in your case, a good strong 75% gun. The original checkering was better than that, but it will now shout "Recheckered". Barrels were a good 75-85%, and now will just be another set of re-blued barrels. You got a great buy on that gun, if not out right stole it. It will be worth what you paid for it when your done. If you're keeping it in the family, no problem. Whatever makes you happy. It certainly wasn't going to deteriorate in the condition I saw it in. Restored, or refreshed guns are everywhere, but, sadly lots of them used to be good honest guns. A perfect example of this is when a well known gun dealer, who had one of the best gunsmithing shops, told my dad he would love to 'spruce up' the 16 ga. my dad bought, at Parker in Meriden, on his 16th birthday. The gun looks nice now, reblued, recut checkering. I'll never sell the gun, and hope my son won't either. Sadly, it is completely devoid of any of the signs of my dads many years of hunting, and love for his gun.

[allen newell]

Gents, I knew when I posted the recent update that it would spark some differing views on restore or not to what is an 'honest' gun. While extremly tight and with good case colors remaining (which will not be touched), Brad disclosed to me then when the gun was disassembled they found the wood under the forearm was somewhat punky from oil soaking in over the years and there were the beginnings of some cracks in the stock at the head behind the top tang - which will need to be taken care of. The fix to one of the barrels where at the muzzle end there is a small dent or rather a mish-shaping of the muzzle choke is necessary to bring the choke back to where it was when it left the factory. Any refinish to the stock will be done per period factory finish - which was oil and shellac I believe, also period appropriate. The rust aloing the sides of the rib and the external pitting which will be addressed come not from being an honest gun but from mis-use in the innapropriate storage of the gun for the past 6 years. Brad and I have an understanding which is to not make the gun look new so much as to bring it up to an appropraite period level. When my grandson inherits this nice VHE, he'll have a lifetime of use with it without worry and plenty enough of legacy from 'Papa'. I respect the concerns expressed by Dean and Edgar and those other collectors of these great firearms that we all want to see preserved and protected.

[allen newell]

Brad called me today to report that when they pulled the action off the stock, there was a good deal of rust in the mechanics. The springs will have to be replaced and Brad felt it was surprising that the top lever could move at all given the amout of rust. This will all be taken care of after boiling out the entire action/frame but it goes to the point that external looks to these old guns can be very deceiving. Oh, turns out we'll be using Edgar's Hawkins pad as the Silver pads screw holes will not fit the buttstock as well as the Hawkins. (So Edgar, the original Hawkins pad will not be coming back to you.)

[John Campbell]

Every time I pull the bottom plate off an old Parker, I'm reminded of Marlon Brando's famous line at the conclusion of Apocalypse Now -- "the horror, the horror."

[allen newell]

That's right Kensal. Brad indicated that from the looks of the internals, the gun had never been taken apart and cleaned. Good news is only the springs will have to be replaced, everything else inside will clean up fine. What's that they day? You can't judge a bok by its cover". It may have looked to most from the outside, a decent honest gun, but unless you know the history and how previous owners took care of it, I think you play it safe and have a competent smith' like Brad (there are others for sure) tear it down and check everything out. We can't forget that it's not the 60's anymore and these guns are only 30-40 years old, most are more than 80 years old today! They're not indestructible, they wear and tear.

[Dean Romig]

That's the catch basin for all the field chaff and crud.

[allen newell]

You know Dean, the irony of all this is the from the pictures previously posted and a visual inspection of the VHE would generally support not 'touching it much'. You just don't know what underlying problems exist with these old guns until to you a detailed takedown and cleaning. And it really helps to have professionals like Brad and others who participate in this forum (as members) and who support the goals and objectives of the PGCA available and working with those of us who want to preserve thes guns for future generations.

[edgarspencer]

You know Dean, the irony of all this is the from the pictures previously posted and a visual inspection of the VHE would generally support not 'touching it much'. You just don't know what underlying problems exist with these old guns until to you a detailed takedown and cleaning. And it really helps to have professionals like Brad and others who participate in this forum (as members) and who support the goals and objectives of the PGCA available and working with those of us who want to preserve thes guns for future generations.

It may surprise, but there are a lot of members on this forum, as well as collectors and shooters of other guns, make a regular practise of some degree of disassembly, cleaning and of oiling their guns at the end of the hunting season.

[allen newell]

I'd be happy to take a lesson from anyone who knows what they're doing.

[edgarspencer]

If a person is completely honest with himself, he'll know if it's within his capability. The average shade tree mechanic will probably bugger the screws before he knows it.
The best Snap-On screwdrivers can be tossed back in the toolbox. Goes without saying that the Sears tools aren't for this job either. If you're comfortable with fine detailed mechanisms, invest in a quality set of gun smithing screwdrivers from Brownells or Midway. English and European guns have finer screw slots, but if you're only working on your American guns, a good 20 piece set of fixed blade drivers is all you need.
Removing the sear pin isn't necessary for the end-of-season maintenance. Just removing the trigger plate will get you to everything that needs a good rinse and lube. If the hammer springs need to come out, you're better off sending it out.
I have done instrument repair as well as supporting my other hobby of clocks, watches and music boxes. My Land Rovers take an entirely different mind set.
Barrel rusting, dent removal, putting a gun on face; they go out. Even I know when to hand those jobs off to the pros.
If toaster operation and ink cartridge changing is the limits of a persons level of machine work, send it out.

[allen newell]

Edgarhas just raised an important aspect of Parker preservation. Maintenance therof.

How about a new section in this Forum that deals with (how to) maintenance of Parkers etc. It might help those Parkerphiles who while maintaining the external features of their doubles routinely may be less familiar or comfortable getting inside the frames etc.

[John Campbell]

Allen:
While I'm sure your suggestion is based on the best of intentions, it has a major downside:

Encouragement of the average owner to "get inside" a Parker. This will virtually guarantee the ruination of even more nice Parkers. Sorry. But not everyone is qualified to do brain surgery - or work on Parkers without messing things up.

A good professional strip-&-clean every two years is your best protection.

Just my opinion.

[allen newell]

Thanks John, my post was intended to illicit responses like this and it will be helpful; and instructive to the Parkerphiles who are not as mechanically inclined, intimidated by thought of getting one of these opened up (my dad who was a First Class Machinest during WWII at the Charlestown Navy Yard in Boston opened up a Parker and inadvertanly broke the wooden 'pillar' inside, he eventualy fixed it but it was a good lesson).

Maybe the lesson here is this: If your skilled and know what you're doing, go ahead. If not, learn how from someone who does and do it with them a few times before o your own and if you're not skilled and are just too intimidated (or just choose not to), then have a pro perform the periodic maintenance. The bottom line is 'maintain them and they will last'

[charlie cleveland]

the bottom line is maintain them and they will last........allen wrote this... these words are the secret to all things that we own be it a parker lifter or a invincible..goes true for our homes and our cars....just wish my grandpa had known this and kept up that 34 ford roadster... charlie

[edgarspencer]

How about a new section in this Forum that deals with (how to) maintenance of Parkers etc. It might help those Parkerphiles who while maintaining the external features of their doubles routinely may be less familiar or comfortable getting inside the frames etc.
There are already good tutorials s on here describing how to disassemble and reassemble hammerless Parkers. My recommendation is if you are not entirely comfortable working on your own guns, don't. Gunsmiths are there for all of us, and taking a shortcut, or trying to save a few bucks by not sending it out may cost you dearly. They aren't miracle workings. It's possible to rectify slightly damaged screw slots, but not all of them. These guns were built with very close fit tolerances between trigger plate and frame. The slightest amount of crud in the recess can result in a bent trigger plate.

[allen newell]

I sent the VHE to Brad Bachelder for a number of corrective actions. I'm anticipating delivery tomorrow morning. Looking forward to seeing Brad's handiwork and shooting it this weekend at Addieville. Will post some pic of the finished product.

[Richard Flanders]

Allen: I'm afraid that the mess Brad found inside your new VHE is far more the norm than the exception. I don't even know how many Parkers and other vintage dbls I've dismantled and cleaned but only one was clean inside. Most every other one was so filled with grease, oil, grunge, rust, sticks, bugs and gravel that it was a wonder anything worked at all.

[allen newell]

makes me wonder how all that stuff get's in there. It's not like the inside of the frame is wide open but I guess over time, stuff finds its way.

[allen newell]

Received my VHE back from Brad Bachelder. Needless to say, another professional job very well done IMHO.

The refinsihing of the stock shows the most dramatic change, but Brad did other work on this VHE including striking and rust bluing the barrels, installation of a new ivory middle bead (replaced one that was missing), cleaned frame and all mechanics, re-blued the trigger guard/bow and safety etc.

This one pic is Before, following are After:

[allen newell]

Before and After pics (If I had a better camera, the pics would be better - that's my story and I'm sticking to it)

[Mike Franzen]

Wow! That's a great gun Allen

[allen newell]

Thanks Mike. I had the oppoortunity to shoot it at the recent Addieville sporting clays shoot and it really felt good. So good in fact my score jumped 20 points over what I shot the last time down there.

[Dennis V. Nix]

Obviously not my business but I agree with the others about NOT refinishing the gun. I would have Brad Batchelder replace the recoil pad, clean and lube the gun and send it back to you. As many said above refinished Parkers are all over the place. I doubt I would buy one as everyone has one. But give me a good condition original gun and I will use it forever. Let your son refinish it if you get it really dinged up.

Dennis

[allen newell]

Dennis, in the main I would agree with you but this one was poorly stored and while the original pictures didn't show it, the barrels had rusted on the outside with pitting that could not be left alone. The original finish on the stock was practically gone and it looked terrible. Inside the frame there was rust etc. that had to be thoroughly cleaned with some parts replaced. There are no plans to sell this VHE but there are plans to use it heavily and it will be left to my grandson when I'm gone. I'm not going to leave him a piece of crap or something that he has to pay for restoration. If the gun had been better cared for, half the work would not have been necessary. But I appreciate and respect your comments and as I said above, in the main we are in agreement.

[edgarspencer]

Brad will do a nice job on the gun, and you'll like it when you get it back. Unfortunately, no one will know whether it was a 10% gun before refinishing, or, in your case, a good strong 75% gun. The original checkering was better than that, but it will now shout "Recheckered". Barrels were a good 75-85%, and now will just be another set of re-blued barrels. You got a great buy on that gun, if not out right stole it. It will be worth what you paid for it when your done. If you're keeping it in the family, no problem. Whatever makes you happy. It certainly wasn't going to deteriorate in the condition I saw it in. Restored, or refreshed guns are everywhere, but, sadly lots of them used to be good honest guns.

Remember, way back in the beginning of this thread, when I said this? Well, I now have the benefit of seeing your gun now that it's back from Batchelder's.
What I said in the first sentence above is now proved; he did a great job.
Going back to the beginning of the thread gives everyone else the benefit of seeing before pics, but I got to inspect the gun closely. I stand by my original position. That gun was what everyone looks for. The minor pitting on the barrel was so minor, it was almost imperceptible, but "striking" them down is draw-filing metal, and in doing that, you've reduced the barrel wall thickness. Maybe not a lot, but doubtless enough to show up when gauged. This might not matter much on a big ole 2 frame, but it does on small frame upland guns.

[allen newell]

Hello Edgar, just a short note as I don't want this thread to become something like a few other threads where we beat a dead horse to death.

Everything that was done to bring this gun back was discussed in every detail with Brad. We agreed to only those steps that would be consistent with those that one might wish to do in the 1920/30's by sending it back to the Parker Bros and/or Remington shop for 'reconditioning'. I'm very happy with the results, have no regrets and will bequeath this VHE to Logan, my oldest grandson who's eyes grow wide every time I pull it out of the gun safe, show it to him and remind him that it will be his one day. The only thing I regret is not engraving my initial 'N' on the shield. But I'll have Dan Cullity do that locally. I do appreciate and respect the views from the 'collectors' and other perspectives.

[edgarspencer]

I don't want this thread to become something like a few other threads where we beat a dead horse to death.
Umm, how do you beat a dead horse to death?

My only thought is that if I were looking at a rack of Parkers, and your old gun was standing next to your new gun, priced the same, It would be the old one I'd pick up.

[allen newell]

We beat a dead horse to death by flogging and generally the flogger doesn't realize the horse is already dead. :)

[Dave Suponski]

Like this....:dh:

[allen newell]

Dave, where do you come up with this stuff? lol

[Mark Ouellette]

Gentlemen,

While the restore or leave original horse may not be dead, it is has been put into the pasture.

This thread is closed by request.

Respectfully,
Mark