what was the standard LOP for a 12 ga VH

[allen newell]

What was the standard LOP for a Parker Bros 12 ga VH 28 " bbls? Was there a standard length their stocks were cut to with their standard black butt plate?

If a customer ordered a 12 ga Vh with a recoil pad, and didn't specify any particular length, what would Parker measure the stock out to without the recoil pad installed.

[Bruce Day]

Per Parker catalogs:

"drop about 2 3/4 inches, length about 14 inches"

There are also ranges of normal specifications published in pre 1930's catalogs.

Skilled Hands catalog:
" Stock dimensions, unless otherwise specified, 14 inches long, 2 1/2 inches drop at the heel, 1 5/8 inches drop at the comb."
p.21.

These answers are for V grade standard guns. Skeet and trap guns have different standard dimensions, as one would expect.

As to your second question, any padded butt was "made to order with stocks 13 1/2 to 14 1/2 inches........without extra charge." Because a padded butt was strictly made to order, a length with pad would have been specified. It would only be an assumption that a default total length would be 14". The wood length would be dependent upon the pad thickness, as you know, different pads had different thicknesses.

[allen newell]

Thanks Bruce
Here's the story. The gun is the Henry F. Tenney double that I mentioned in a prior thread. The gun arrived today and it's not a VH but actually a VHE!. All original and ser # 231162.
The LOP measures approx 13 1/4 " and it apparently had a recoil pad of some sort (Josten, Pachmayer or Silver perhaps) installed but all that remains on the butt end is a 1/4 inch red spacer. I'll post pictures. It is a 12 ga 28 inch double on a 1 1/2 frame. I can't tell from any of the markings on the water table or under the barrels what the chokes are but will have them measured anyway. I'm guessing they will be M/IC or F/M. we'll see. Pictures to follow on a new reply. Still figuring out how best to post pics on here. I made an offer of $900 on this and it's been accepted.

[allen newell]

Pictures of this 12 ga VHE just purchased today. I want the stock and forearm striped and refinished and an appropriate rewcoil pad for the era installed. The screws have not been touched and are timed/regulated. This will be an honest shooter for me and something to leave for my grandsons. It is extremely tight to the face with absolutely no wiggle room what so ever.

[allen newell]

additional photos. what does 1G2 markings mean? are these the chokes? The stock looks to have been cut short as the LOP is about 13 1/4 " and with a recoil pad would bring it up to 14 1/4 ". One owner only to our knowledge. I will request a Letter on this double so we'll see.

[Bruce Day]

Jostam Hy-Guns and Hawkins pads were very popular on guns made in the 1930's. Put one of those on and the LOP will be back to 14 or 14 1/4.

You asked what the 1 G 2 stamp on the back face of the barrel lump means. I have no idea.....that I have never seen before.

A remaining thin red spacer may evidence what is left of a Jostam sponge pad......they are seldom seen today . I believe the gun had this on it. They came in two and three layer variants:

[Frank Cronin]

My guess, it looks like at one time a Jostam 2 Ply Sponge Pad was installed and the sponge separated / fell apart from the slice of rubber tacked to the stock.

[Frank Cronin]

Bruce beat me to the post. I didn't see Bruce's reply while I was typing away and trying to find a picture of my Jostam Pad....

By the way, nice VHE Allen.

[allen newell]

Thanks Frank and Bruce. I feel like I've been living in the dark all these years and along comes the PGCA to show us Light! Great forum and really, really great gentlemen in the PGCA. We should host regional PGCA banquet or other events to give more members the opportunity to meet and greet. Just PGCA events. I worked for years on DU committees and would be happy to apply my obsessive (but not compulsive) organizational skills to work with others in making this happen.

Regarding this new found VHE, I think I'll ship it to Brad Bachelder and have Brad go through it entirely, strip and clean, refinish the stock, install a missing ivory bead on the mid rib (the muzzle end bead is fine) and install an appropriate recoil pad. I appreciate Brad has a 4-6 mos backlog but I expect to live that long!

[allen newell]

Bruce and Frank
That would explain all the tacks that show on the butt end.

[allen newell]

Gents, apart from measuring the muzzle ends to determine chokes on this VHE, wouldn't there be some markings on the water table or under the barrels at the breech end?

[Daryl Corona]

Allen;
Nice gun and a great price. Your gun was made in 1929 so there would be no choke markings stamped on the barrels or water table. That did'nt start until the Remington era. You'll have to measure them with a bore gauge. I've never seen that 1G2 marking on a lug before. Maybe some other member may have some info on it. Enjoy your new toy.

[allen newell]

Thanks to The Republic of Maryland!

[Chuck Bishop]

Duh, it's not 1G2, it's the last 3 digits of the serial number 162. Does everyone but me need glasses:whistle:

[Daryl Corona]

Duh, it's not 1G2, it's the last 3 digits of the serial number 162. Does everyone but me need glasses:whistle:

:banghead: Duh. My bad. Should have looked at the picture. Kinda looks like a G. Good work Research Guru. Guess it's time for a drink.

[allen newell]

duh, yup, i need glasses, one for scotch and the other for a nice bourbon

[Craig Larter]

Posted on the wrong forum sorry

[allen newell]

OK, but what would've been the point of stamping in the last 3 digits of the bun's serial number on the end of the barrel lug? Why would Parker have done this - if it's not customarily done on other parkers (as one has indicated)?

[Bill Zachow]

All Parker significant Parker parts were numbered to the gun. Large parts (barrels, forearms, stocks, locks and hammers on hammer guns) were numbered with the complete serial number. Smaller parts, like your 162 part were numbered with the last two or three digits. The numbering was done to keep all the parts together as they moved through the manufacturing process. Also, to reunite parts as manufacturing steps were done in batches. Parker parts were all hand fitted after initial part production and thus, finished parts were not normally interchangeable.

[allen newell]

domo arigato bill

[edgarspencer]

Allan, Why refinish the stock? That gun is as honest as the day is long. Far better than anyone deserves for that price, and the stock finish appears very good. Refinish it and it will scream " look at me compared to my metalhead neighbors". There are lots of things a gunsmith will do when asked, but sometimes telling you not to do something isn't one of them. Value won't be higher, and possibly lower.

[allen newell]

Edgar, let me post a better and fuller picture of the stock or better yet I can bring it to the show today and let you see it in real time. Would that be better? I plan to leave here around 9 am and would expect to be at the Convention Center around 11:30. George tells m he's got a court date (what's he being charged with now one wonders?) this morning and expects to arrive God willing around noon or so. He's also asked me to bring the BHE (for display only).

[edgarspencer]

Good idea. I may even have a good pad.
As George and I are setting up, and traveling together (Kristie has arranged for this old cripple to have a parking spot at the loading dock.)

[allen newell]

closer pics of the stock. The stock was apparently cut in order to fit mrs. Henry Tenney (it was her gun) and pad installed. no pad remains today except spacer. LOP measures about 13 inches and I need at least 14 1/2 (15 would be even better but I don't want the stock to look like one big recoil pad attached to some wood!). My concern. This is not going to be a safe queen but a shooter to use and leave to one of my grandsons. Legacy is imprtant to me.

[Frank Cronin]

Allen, listen to Edgar. There is nothing wrong with that stock. Just leave it. It just needs a nice period correct pad. Maybe even with a pad installed the LOP my be a little short but that can be corrected with a slip on pad.

When I see you Sat to get the dekes I will bring a unused two ply Jostam pad. If it fits, it is yours.

[allen newell]

Ok Frank and thanks. Suggest you get here in the morning - early is better as they are forecasting 3-6 " snow starting in the afternoon with heavier amounts along the south coast which means us, argh! thank God for snowblowers though!

If you get here by 10 am or so (earlier is ok too as we are early risers) you'k be fine.

[edgarspencer]

3-6" ? That's just a dusting.

Allan, If the gun left Meriden with a pad on it, it would not have had a widows peak, and the pull to the end of the wood was probably right where you are now. I doubt it was cut, as what you have plus a proper Hawkins or Jostam pad would be exactly where Parker advertised guns to measure.