Calling all 3 Frame 12 gauge's

[Pete Lester]

The thread discussing Dennis Nix' latest purchase of a 3 frame VH on got me wondering. Factory records I believe did not record frame size. It would appear to me Parker Bros. occasionally built 12ga guns on 3 frames I believe to achieve a desired heavier weight. 3 Frame 12's are not rare but are certainly uncommon.

So how many are out there among us and what are they?

I have a VH with 32" barrels F/F built in 1900 on a three frame, barrel weight stamp is 5', gun is 9 lb even. It was ordered and shipped to the general store in a small Illinois town on the bank of the Mississippee river. 9 pound weight was requested. A lot of barrel swamp. No doubt intended to be and used as a Fowler. The gun was solid with modern dimensions but pretty messed up. Couple of mechanical issues, cold blued frame and barrels and checkering refreshed with a steak knife. I had Larry DeGrego & Son bring it back 100% in 2008.

[Stephen Hodges]

Hey Pete, how about some pictures of your 3 frame:corn:

[Mark Ouellette]

Pete and all,

I own a high condition DH Damascus 34" 12 gauge built on a #3 frame. This Parker weighs 10 pounds even and is choked with .040" in each barrel.

Mark

[Don Kaas]

I have a 34" DHE 12 gauge straight grip on a 3 frame. A friend down in Mississippi has a 32" DH on a #3 frame I used to own as well. Destry has a #3 frame DHE he is quite fond of:shock:

[Pete Lester]

Steve asked for pictures. Reminds me I need to take some. I think after nearly 5 years the cc has faded some but this is how it looked when I brought home from LD&S in '08. My recall is both barrels are .036 constriction.

I'd like to see pic's of those D grades.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/nhshotgunner/100_0307.jpg

[Mills Morrison]

I have 12 gauge, 30", size 3, Twist barrels which are going on my DH 10 project.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Don is correct, "The Swamp Angel" and I are near constant companions in the duck blind. I think I killed every goose I shot last year with it as well. The big magnum 10 gauge was jealous, it's not been out of the house in a couple years.

Destry

[Eldon Goddard]

I thought since it is the only Parker I own I would put in some pictures of mine. It is aVHE 12 gauge 3 frame 34'' barrels made in 1912. I bought it in 2005 several parts were parkerized including the barrels. I had the barrels reblued by Turnbull and am still working on saving for a complete metal restoration. I put some pictures of the forearm on to get an collective opinion on whether or not I should do a complete restoration. As far as I know the wood is untouched it has the exact dimensions as the letter gives 15'' LOP and 3 1/2'' drop at heel.

[Eldon Goddard]

Some more.

[Bill Murphy]

What a great gun for your only Parker. Some years ago, I traded a wonderful minty postwar 38-44 Outdoorsman for my cased DH 12 gauge Damascus factory two barrel set on the #3 frame. It's a pretty nice gun with pinned cheeks and outrageous barrels, 30" and 28", and skeleton butt. My DH Lefever sleeved mag ten was originally a #3 frame 32" Damascus twelve, also with skeleton butt. My "new to me" ex Austin Hogan extremely late lifter 12 is also on a #3 frame. In my experience, this is a real rarity, but I may be wrong about that. Of course, my little 28" 16 gauge Wisconsin grouse gun is also a #3 frame, but I guess this thread is about 12 gauges.

[Ed Blake]

Who needs a Super Fox.

[Bill Murphy]

We want those too.

[wayne goerres]

I would take the money that I was going to pay turnbull and buy another great parker. I realize you reblued the parkerized barrels but the rest of that gun looks pretty good especially the case colors. I am no expert but guns have to be pretty bad before you start working on them.

[Daryl Corona]

Who needs a Super Fox.

Don't need one Ed, just want one but would also love to have a 3 frame 12 with looooong barrels.

[Pete Lester]

I thought since it is the only Parker I own I would put in some pictures of mine. It is aVHE 12 gauge 3 frame 34'' barrels made in 1912. I bought it in 2005 several parts were parkerized including the barrels. I had the barrels reblued by Turnbull and am still working on saving for a complete metal restoration. I put some pictures of the forearm on to get an collective opinion on whether or not I should do a complete restoration. As far as I know the wood is untouched it has the exact dimensions as the letter gives 15'' LOP and 3 1/2'' drop at heel.

What a great gun for your only Parker, it looks great! What other parts are Parkerized? Does not look like you very far to go to make it right.

[Mark Ouellette]

Here's my 34" #3 frame 12 gauge. "34 for 4"

[Eldon Goddard]

The top lever, trigger guard, and forearm latch. I was going to recase color it as I was told that it is not original style. I forgot to mention it is 9lbs 8oz.

[Pete Lester]

The top lever, trigger guard, and forearm latch. I was going to recase color it as I was told that it is not original style. I forgot to mention it is 9lbs 8oz.

The trigger guard should be blued. Another option to consider is replacing the top lever and forend latch with original worn condition parts, as the worn parts might fit/blend better with the original/worn cc on the frame. You might be able to find those parts on this site if you ask around.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I have a grade 3 hammer gun on a 3 frame it is a 12 ga, I will get some photo's tomorrow Mark that is a beautiful gun and a killer piece of wood! Gary

[Eldon Goddard]

So you think I should not redo the frame?

[Pete Lester]

So you think I should not redo the frame?

Not from what I can see in the pictures.

[Mark Ouellette]

Eldon,

I've had a lot of vintage guns restored but if I owned your Parker I would leave it as is!

Mark

[Daryl Corona]

Here's my 34" #3 frame 12 gauge. "34 for 4"

Beautiful gun Mark. Radar looks pretty proud too.

[Eldon Goddard]

Thank you guys for the input. If I left it as is it certainly would save alot of money.:bowdown:

[Mark Ouellette]

Eldon,

Guns are like fancy cars. Sometimes they both need and deserve to be restored.

34" #2 frame PHE with the action and barrels restored by Brad Bachelder. The gun was used by a guide on Lake Erie and was a gift from his clients.

PS: I should state that before restoration the action and barrels looked much like the condition that Dennis Nix's new to him #3 frame Vh is in. The wood was in decent so Brad was instructed to simply refinish rather than restore it.

[paul stafford jr]

great looking gun mark, the colors look great. brad can sure do some nice work.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Mark, Are you cornering the market on those P grades, nice 34"

[Patrick Lien]

1903 GH 3 frame 12ga. with 32" Damascus barrels, The gun weighs 9 pounds 6 ounces.

Patrick

[Eldon Goddard]

The trigger guard should be blued. Another option to consider is replacing the top lever and forend latch with original worn condition parts, as the worn parts might fit/blend better with the original/worn cc on the frame. You might be able to find those parts on this site if you ask around.

One last stupid question. Are these parts interchangeable by frame size or are they specific to a frame size?

[Pete Lester]

One last stupid question. Are these parts interchangeable by frame size or are they specific to a frame size?

As they say, there are no stupid questions. I am pretty sure the forend lever would be the same. I "think" the lever would be the same but I there are some different styles of levers. Somebody with more knowledge of smithing will chime in hopefully.

[Mark Ouellette]

Mark, Are you cornering the market on those P grades, nice 34"

Gary,

I just buy the good ones when I can! :whistle: Of course I heed George Washington's parting advice to his officers, "Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.", such as you and my Parker mentor, Eric. :bowdown: There are of course others whom I am thankful to such as Brad, Kurt, Eric, Paul H. and probably a few more whom I'm forgetting in this early morning ramble...

Mark

[Pete Lester]

So only five 3 frame 12's among the active posters? Seems low, are they that uncommon? I have seen only 6 or so for sale over the last 5 or 6 years.

[John Truitt]

I am aware of four others.
Two VH each 32" (they were both for sale thru Ivory beads a few years ago. I think one of those is for sae wiht another dealer now may be Steve Barnett but I am not positive)
Two DH's.
One 32" damascus that resides in Northern VA as of three years ago.
One 28 " unknown where abouts.

I have shot one of the 32" VH's and she is one hell of a shooting iron.

#3 frame guns are very cool.

PS:
I do remember seeing a #3 framel 36" 12 VH about two or three years ago at the Spring Southern

[Pete Lester]

I am aware of four others.
Two VH each 32" (they were both for sale thru Ivory beads a few years ago. I think one of those is for sae wiht another dealer now may be Steve Barnett but I am not positive)
Two DH's.
One 32" damascus that resides in Northern VA as of three years ago.
One 28 " unknown where abouts.

I have shot one of the 32" VH's and she is one hell of a shooting iron.

#3 frame guns are very cool.

PS:
I do remember seeing a #3 framel 36" 12 VH about two or three years ago at the Spring Southern

George Lander had a high condition 3 frame VH for sale a couple of years ago and I recall seeing a 3 frame D grade on Safari Outfitters a couple of years ago too. I remember the Ivory Bead guns as well.

[Mills Morrison]

This has me more excited about my DH 10 project and also glad I jumped on the set of 12 gauge barrels for it.

[Ed Blake]

A 30" DH was sold in 2011 on Gunbroker by an individual in Washington State. A 28" flat-rib DH was also sold on Gunbroker in 2012. That was a very cool gun.

[John Truitt]

Ed you and I know of one #3 frame 32" VH 12 for sale.

[Ed Blake]

Yes. I have my name on it.

[Bill Murphy]

Pete, there are actually Parker records that record frame sizes. Stock books in certain eras list frame sizes. Also some order book entries specify the "2 1/2" frame, which is the #3 frame.

[Pete Lester]

Pete, there are actually Parker records that record frame sizes. Stock books in certain eras list frame sizes. Also some order book entries specify the "2 1/2" frame, which is the #3 frame.

Bill were you able to get any sense of % or production of 12ga on 3 frame from those records?

[Bill Murphy]

You might ask Chuck Bishop about that. I think we have a good idea about the percentage of 12s that are on the #3 frame. Less than 1% would be my empirical guess. Empirical guess is an oxymoron, but probably correct.

[Daryl Middlebrook]

I have a 1916 12ga. VHE 3 frame equipped with 36" barrels. I bought it from somebody on the West coast. Can't remember his name.

I would love to know how many of these that Parker made.

[Frank Cronin]

I have a 1916 12ga. VHE 3 frame equipped with 36" barrels..

what an amazing gun :bowdown:

[George Blair]

Not nearly as amazing as some of the previous 3 frames, is my 1901 Gh damascus 32 in. 12 Ga.. Dented , used and abused it was brought back to pleasing to the eye configuration by Craig Smith (barrels), and Tom Geasey (stock). Balances on the pin at 8 lb 11 oz.

[Bill Murphy]

Amazing is some of the work turned out by backwoods gunsmiths. George Blair's mention of Tom Geasey is an example. I was in a friend's gun room not long ago and asked about a rifle that appeared to be a product of Griffin and Howe or some such. It was just a perfect example. I would have written a check right there. It was built by Tom Geasey.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

OK, Here is a grade 3 hammer gun in 12g a on a three frame, the letter does not mention the frame size but as you can see for a 30" gun it weighs in a 9lb bear with me I do not know how to post more than 5 photos in one post so I have three post Gary

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

look at the dogs expression

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

again

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

The last

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I guess you all know that you can double click and get a close up of these photo's

[charlie cleveland]

them 3 frame 12 s sure got thick breach ends...and gotta love the 36 inch barrel one... charlie

[charlie cleveland]

keep them 3 frame 12 s a coming.. charlie

[Bill Murphy]

The three that Jent knows about brings us up to 14 or 15 different guns on this thread. For those searching for records on #3 frames, the order for gun #125,757, a 12 gauge DH, includes the notation "2 1/2 frame". The weights for the 32" and 28" barrels are 8 pounds, 7 ounces, and 8 pounds, 4 ounces. The order for gun #136,923, a 16 gauge VH, specifies "2 1/2 frame", 28" barrels and 8 pounds, 13 ounces. The order for my DH magnum ten Lefever sleeved gun (from 12 gauge) does not specify a frame size.

[Pete Lester]

Scott K. reminded me that Jay Shacter had a 3 frame VHE 12ga straight stock with a lot of cast off in the stock at Hausmanns shoot last June. The lower tang was visibly bent. The gun fit me very nice.

[Bill Holcombe]

Since I have finally acquired such a gun I thought I would add it to this thread.

Its an 1890 DH, 2 barrel set. 10 gauge 32" and 12 gauge 30", weighs 9lbs even with either barrel on. 12 gauge barrel was added in 1913 at parker bros.

[Mills Morrison]

Since we've reawakened this thread, here is my DH project which now includes a set of 30" 3 frame 12 gauge barrels

[charlie cleveland]

i too have a 3 frame 12 ga with 30 inch barels and weighs 9 1/4 lbs...reckon how many of these guns have 3 inch chambers mine only has 2 3/4 inch chambers...charlie

[CraigThompson]

I am aware of four others.
Two VH each 32" (they were both for sale thru Ivory beads a few years ago. I think one of those is for sae wiht another dealer now may be Steve Barnett but I am not positive)
Two DH's.
One 32" damascus that resides in Northern VA as of three years ago.
One 28 " unknown where abouts.

I have shot one of the 32" VH's and she is one hell of a shooting iron.

#3 frame guns are very cool.

PS:
I do remember seeing a #3 framel 36" 12 VH about two or three years ago at the Spring Southern

John , the pair of 34" DH guns our mutual friend owns are they #2 or #3 frame guns ? I looked them over once down at Brads sporting course but I didn't take them apart .

[Craig Larter]

I own two #3 Frame 12's, a CHE with 32" bbls, factory 2 7/8" chambers, a DHE with 30" bbls.

[Rick Losey]

Only the one here

32 inch barrels - .035 and .038 chokes - 8 1/2 pounds- VH

the wrist was broken in three places (two did not go all the way through- one was side to side but the stock had not separated)- they are fixed and a reinforcing rod installed down into the pistol grip from under the top tang, and the stock refinished - the checkering still needs to be recut

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=588&pictureid=8319

[Rick Losey]

just to re float an old thread-

finally got the repaired 3 frame out in the marsh where it belonged ( i had shot several rounds of clays with it this summer) but this is what it was meant for -

saw lots of ducks - but few would commit- but it was still a great day out with friends



http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=576&pictureid=8517

[Craig Larter]

Rick: Great ducker!!! Just need to get the checkering cleaned up and it will be perfect. I only wish you had passed on it and it was in my gun safe. :rolleyes:

[Rick Losey]

i know, the wood overall looks good- freshened checkering will really make it pop

thanks for the push it took to finish the deal :rotf:

PS all- had some time to color correct the picture ( took it with an old beater waterproof camera)

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

So how many are out there, and how many are hammer guns? gary

[Rick Losey]

So how many are out there, and how many are hammer guns? gary

not sure how we would ever know- since the records do not show frame size

i think i have seen just one 3 frame 12 wearing ears

[Eric Estes]

nvm

[Rick Losey]

nvm

but the seller says 10 :vconfused:

did the serial number say different?

[Eric Estes]

Just me being a jelly head Rick, sorry.

[charlie cleveland]

i also have a 3 frame 12 barrel weight is 5lb 14 ounce the barrel is 30 inch damacus chokes are about mod and modefied...a 3 frame also good on squirls too....charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Gary, Austin's old lifter gun is a #3 frame 32" 12, about the last lifter made. I was offered the gun years before Austin showed up with it, but declined because I had no idea how rare it was. I begged Austin to sell it to me, but it was his favorite skeet gun and he would not sell it to me. After his death, I bought it when his estate guns were sold. It was a long search, but now I am shooting one of my friend Austin's guns.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Bill, You have to stay in the hunt like you say, glad you were able to finally get his gun, it is a pretty rare piece, Gary

[Bill Murphy]

Gary, it is an absolute "horse". One of a kind. And I'm used to the the eight gauges.

[Ed Blake]

I thought I chimed in long ago on this thread. I have a #3 frame 32" 12 and a #3 frame DH 28" 12. The 28" gun is from 1903 has a flat rib and weighs in at 9.5. So short and so heavy. The original owner (from the Parker letter) was out of PA and was a pigeon shooter. The letter stated he wanted it patterned with 1 1/4 oz #7. Maybe he used in the pigeon ring. Who knows.