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[James Brigham]

Although I've known about the PGCA and own a 1924 VH 16 on a 0 Frame, recently I acquired a 1875 Hammer under lifter 12 ga. project gun and was looking for additional information on it. I have the most of the Parker books, as a dear friend has an amazing collection of DH Damascus in all gauges!!!! He is my go to guy, but with this hammer it's a new world. She needs assistance, but the price was right. Will it ever scare grouse and woodcock in my beloved New England woods come fall?

[Rick Losey]

Welcome James

Please post some pictures of your project gun

[James Brigham]

Well now that I've taken it all apart and did the research, (big sigh here) I've learned a few things. 1. The action is a #2 frame 12 ga. The action and stock match serial numbers. 2. The barrels and forehand are a TEN, yes 10 ga. The serial number match the forehand and barrels, so basically I have a wall hanger or I can cannibalize it and sell off the parts! I am sad to see this, but then again I paid $150.00 for it. It would look great in my office, so I'm contemplating what to do with it. Ever heard of such a thing? I've seen plenty of composite guns (different barrels, actions, forehands etc..) but all of the same ga. Neglect is an unforgivable crime! :crying:

[Bruce Day]

Plenty of Parker 10ga guns are built on a #2 frame.

I don't understand why you feel its relegated to being a wallhanger. Why don't you shoot it? Parker made plenty of so called light upland 10's, although none of them are really light.

Here's an internal hammer Parker, #2 frame with light 10's. Its a two barreled set, the others being 12's.

[Andy Kelley]

James please post pictures and slow down with the relegation to decorator status. You may have the components of a very nice gun and it could bring you many happy days afield. Best of luck with it and carry on! Andy

[James Brigham]

Let me ask you all this. I knew of the light 10 (10 frame) 12 barrels. But has anyone seen it the other way around? Again, I have a 12 frame, 10 barrels. This is new territory for me. Still working on the pics.

[Chuck Bishop]

James, your thinking too much:banghead:

First of all, what's the serial number??? Second, Parker didn't make actions according to gauge, they made them to the frame size (distance between firing pin holes.) If your sure it's a #2 frame size, it could be anything from a 10,11,or 12 gauge in that time period.

Or are you saying the receiver's (you call it the action) serial number is different than the barrel and forend serial numbers???

[James Brigham]

Yes, I was, the receiver is a #2 frame serial number 6527. Research shows it was a 12 ga made in 1875 underlifter 30" barrels. The butt stock matches the receiver and trigger guard. The barrels and forend serial numbers are 6410 which according to records was a 10 ga 30". Sadly, the rib is shot and the barrels have been cut (rather hack job) to 26 3/4" So again my question is: is this a total mis-match or would (after restoration) one be able to fire this? I trying to weigh my options with this (restore, cannibalize for parts, wall hanger in my office, trading material, as my youngest son needs to be out fitted. His brother shoots an Ithaca Flues 20. I have a beautiful VH 16, but in too nice a condition for a 12 year old . Any info would be great.

[Chuck Bishop]

James, I hope you own your own business or work out of the office in your house. Not to many companies let you have a gun for a wallhanger these days.

Can you shoot your gun? Most critical is the condition of the barrels and how they fit to the receiver. Wall thickness and deep pits are the most important for the barrels. If they are ok and the barrels fit tight to the receiver, it's up to you and your gunsmith to figure out if it's ok to shoot. If it is, I'd only use low pressure loads. With that much of the barrels cut, they would be cyl/cyl and would be good for close shooting.

[James Brigham]

As a matter of fact, I do own my own business! You are correct Sir! On any given day, you can find my bird dogs, one curled under my desk, the other on the leather couch in the lobby area, woofing or wagging at who ever happens to cross the thresh hold. The entire office looks like an Upland Guide Service, with the sporting prints, grouse fans, bronze statues, lithographs, shadow boxes and other do-dads of this passion of ours. I would not dare to shoot this particular gun (yet) and that says a lot. I hunt with a 109 year old Wesley Richards. My 14 year old uses his 100 year old Flutes 20, and now as of today, my 12 year old with a 1917 Flues 16.

[Dave Suponski]

James, All my family is in Vermont. My nephew and his wife and kids are in Wilmington and my brother and his wife are in South Newfane.Your office decor may raise some eyebrows elsewhere but not in VT....:)

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

James, Before you decide to do any thing get a set of 12 ga lifter barrels and fit to the gun, I have a set if you are interested! Gary

[Dennis V. Nix]

James, first off I would stop worrying about the gun and what to do with it until you find out what what you have as far as shooting condition. Next please post some photos so some of our experts (not me) can give you an honest appraisal of the gun. The fact that the numbers are mismatched means nothing if it is a great shooter. If the barrels are sound and in good shooting condition meaning no deep pits and substantial wall thickness then I would have 3/4 inch cut off the muzzle and use it for great bird gun. There are probably people in your neck of the woods who can take a look at your gun and tell you approximately how much you need to put it into excellent shooting condition. If the barrels are shot, pun intended, you can always look for 2 frame barrels in a 12 gauge and still have a nice shooter. For the money you have invested so far it would seem for a bit more you can have a great gun. Welcome to the PGCA.

Dennis

[Dennis V. Nix]

It also might be worthwhile to get a letter on the gun.

[James Brigham]

Alright fellas, I just uploaded pics of that underlifter, under my albums. Tell me what you think

[Rick Losey]

Thanks James

that is one interesting left hammer

but they must have made it work

Is it the lower rib that has the issue?

[James Brigham]

both ribs. The picture with the brass looking coloration is the top, the blurry one with the rib off set is the bottom. In short, it's in need of repair desperately. The barrels are pitted, not sure on the thickness, as I don't have the tool to measure to see if lapping is an option.

[Dean Romig]

Hi James, where in Vermont are you? I hunt (haunt) in the Northeast Kingdom.

[Rick Losey]

I doubt you would find resetting ribs on cut and pitted barrels cost effective.

You may want to start looking for replacements

[James Brigham]

I agree. Next week I'm headed down to SC, where it is always worth the time to poke around at pawn shops, never know what one might find between rounds of golf. Plus there is an amazing clays course in Georgetown that I always visit. Looking forward to escaping this cold.

[Dean Romig]

That Georgetown clays course wouldn't be Backwoods Quail Club would it??

[Tom Carter]

James, When you get to the Georgetown area call me at 843 546 0609.
Perhaps David Dwyer and I can meet you for a round of clays and lunch.
Cheers, Tom Carter

[James Brigham]

You sir are both correct. Backwoods. Love it. My boys crushed that course many times (oh to have young hand/eye coordination. My bride originally said, "This trip has NOTHING to do with guns, clays, birds or dogs. You are going to walk on the beach, drink wine, take me to dinner and play golf!" Then just the other day she asked our youngest if she was going to go with me to, "that clay place you shoot at?" There was a glimmer of hope on the horizon! I will take you up on that offer, should she forget the whole no shooting thing! I don't know how to post pics with this thread, but I've uploaded some in my album "upland hunting" of my boys a few years back at BCQC, crushing the course!

[Dean Romig]

Take your wife out to Pawlee Island. Beautiful place!

[James Brigham]

Decided to depart with the underlifter, anyone interested? Had to retire a Flues 20 so need to raise some capital to outfit my 15 year old.