VH serial # vs Rem code

[Ed Brackett]

I have a 12ga VH in the shop with a serial number of 88234 (1898) and a Remington code of Bf (May of 1937) on the monoblock of the barrels. Is there a way to tell if the barrels were replaced or if some other maintainance was done? By the way, the engraving on the reciever is somewhat upgraded from the standard plain engraving VH pictures I have seen.

[Rick Losey]

Monoblock? have the barrels been sleeved?

there may have been additional after market work done.

could you post some clear pictures of the barrels and the engraving

[Bill Murphy]

I don't think you are looking at a Remington repair code. Remington repair codes would be two letters the same size and font and the number 2 or 3 following the letters.

[Dean Romig]

We have seen the "Kf" stamp on the barrel flats but I don't recall ever seeing a "Bf" stamp there.

The Kf indicated that King pronounced the barrels (or gun) finishen or filalized or fin ..... done and passed inspection in other words

[Rick Losey]

BTW - the book says 30 inch barrels originally

[George M. Purtill]

Post a picture.

[allen newell]

Rick, what does the book say about VH ser# 221866?

[Dave Suponski]

This is a very interesting gun considering the fact that 88220 is thought to be the first Grade O (V) grade hammerless gun made. Yes we need pictures please.

[Rick Losey]

Rick, what does the book say about VH ser# 221866?

its not in there

[allen newell]

why would it not be there? not all pkrs are in the book?

[Rick Losey]

why would it not be there? not all pkrs are in the book?

no -there are many gaps in the serial numbers in the serialization book.

[Ed Brackett]

OH, thanks to you and all for the quick replies.
No, the barrels have not been sleved and I will get pictures up in the next few days.

[Ed Brackett]

Dean, I made a typo on the bbl marking and it is Kf not Bf as I stated in my original liating. I appologize. I'll pics up as soon as I can.

[Bill Murphy]

Ed, yours is probably the earliest VH grade gun to surface, an interesting find.

[Kevin McCormack]

We have seen the "Kf" stamp on the barrel flats but I don't recall ever seeing a "Bf" stamp there.

The Kf indicated that King pronounced the barrels (or gun) finishen or filalized or fin ..... done and passed inspection in other words

The derivation of this mark has been discussed at least a dozen times on this forum. Bob Runge told me he thought the 'f' stood for "fertig", the German word for "finished". This makes eminent sense when you consider that many employees in the barrel shop in the late 1890's were Germans, and had license to choose their own symbols or characters to signify completion of different stages of work and passage of the barrels to the next stage of gunbuilding. The 'W' is universally recognized as the mark of Walter King.

[Ed Brackett]

All, please see the pics of this early VH. As noted the engraving is simple but more ornate (PH? style) than the pics I have seen of other VH guns. It appears to be in appx. 30-40% with no pitting and blueing remaining on the top and bottom of the barrels. The gun has been in the same family since great-granddad bought it.

Your comments are appreciated.

[Rick Losey]

very nice - I like the little dress up, and 88K is quite early.

the buggered screw slots could be cleaned up , and in the grand scheme of things, not all that bad -

is the head of the stock a bit dark (some oil soaking) or is that just the pics?

thanks for posting the pics

I really like seeing one stay in a family

[Bill Murphy]

This is really interesting. Apparently, this gun was made before the V Grade engraving pattern had been finalized and the P pattern was being used. We would have to see more early Vs to determine when the standard V engraving pattern was first used. This is the seventh V Grade made by Parker Brothers. We need to see more V Grades in this serial number block.

[Dave Suponski]

I agree Bill. Very interesting.

[Dean Romig]

Grade 1 hammerless guns with Twist barrels were listed as PT

The first fluid steel Parker hammerless gun was the V with Vulcan Steel barrels and may have initially been a Grade 1 as well but with the choice of Vulcan Steel barrels. but.....

we have seen VH Parkers with both Twist and Damascus barrels.

Investigation continues...

[Dave Suponski]

Yes but why would the water table be stamped V if it was a rebarreled P?

[Dean Romig]

I never suggested it was a rebarreled P. What I did suggest was the possobility of ordering a P (Grade 1) with the brand new fluid steel "Vulcan Steel" barrels, hence the stamp on the water table. I'm only suggesting this as a possibility in the earliest stage of fluid steel barreled Parkers. Soon thereafter the Vulcan Steel barreled Parker got its own designation and became the VH and took its place as the Grade-0 without the engraving embellishment of the Grade 1.

All pure speculation on my part.

[Dave Suponski]

Interesting ...The book states that 88234 is a V grade gun with a capped pistol grip stock 12 gauge with 30" barrels. The two guns preceeding this are the same configuration but P grades. Hmmm. A clue?

[Dean Romig]

As are each of the previous six V's, 88220 (the very first V), 88226, 88227, 88228, 88229, 88230. I don't know if this tells us anything but there appears to be a pattern.

[Dave Suponski]

We need to see one of those guns.

[George M. Purtill]

I never suggested it was a rebarreled P. What I did suggest was the possobility of ordering a P (Grade 1) with the brand new fluid steel "Vulcan Steel" barrels, hence the stamp on the water table. I'm only suggesting this as a possibility in the earliest stage of fluid steel barreled Parkers. Soon thereafter the Vulcan Steel barreled Parker got its own designation and became the VH and took its place as the Grade-0 without the engraving embellishment of the Grade 1.

All pure speculation on my part.

Put the Hookah away Deano.

[Bill Murphy]

At least one of the early Vulcan barrelled guns was a BH and still has its Vulcan barrels intact. It shows up in the book as a V5 as it should. When the Vulcan barrels appeared on the scene, all bets were off as far as uniformity.

[Ed Brackett]

Gents, thanks to all of you for your inputs, it has been very instructive for me in tracking down this particular Parker.

Couple of notes:
O.H., yes, the head of the stock is darker from oil and handleing.
Dave, the gun has a capped pistol grip and 30" full & full chokes.
Bill, either the very early VH guns used P engraving as a marketing feature OR they used the P engraving until the standard VH 0 grade engraving was finalized. Not sure we will know for sure.

I'll get the gun back to the owner with your excellent comments. He will be very pleased to have a better ubderstanding of the history of this family heirloom.

Regards, Ed

[Eldon Goddard]

We have seen the "Kf" stamp on the barrel flats but I don't recall ever seeing a "Bf" stamp there.

The Kf indicated that King pronounced the barrels (or gun) finishen or filalized or fin ..... done and passed inspection in other words

I have Kf stamped on my barrel and always wondered what it meant.

[Bill Murphy]

Ed, you say we may never know for sure. As time goes on, we will find a couple or a few more guns between the first VH and your gun. Then we will know. This is the first of this type we have seen, but will probably not be the last. What we have learned since we opened the records in 1997 and 1998 boggles the mind.

[Ed Brackett]

Bill, I'm glad the VH we have been discussing has contributed a little to the Parker story. The added mystery of this gun is one of the reasons I really enjoy being the researcher for our shop.

You and the other folks that chipped in with their knowledge has given me a great respect for the members of the PGCA on this forum.

Good luck filling in the VH story and thanks to all of you.