Wells Fargo coach gun

[Mike Hines]

I was trying to get a ball park value on this Wells Fargo coach gun made by Parker in 1885. Stamped “W.F.&.CO.” 12 gauge, Damascus barrels, external hammers. Frame size – 1, Weight of barrels - “4 2”,Grade ?

This is a collectable gun, not a shooter. Everything operates properly and the action is tight but the bores are pretty pitted. The left hammer is bent and the stock has been repaired.

http://www.huntingnut.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/15138/dsc03056_small.jpg

http://www.huntingnut.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/15138/dsc03058_small.jpg

http://www.huntingnut.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/15138/dsc03061_small.jpg

All help is greatly appreciated!

[Dean Romig]

There are an awful lot of W.F. & Co. stamped guns out there and the huge majority of them are fakes. This is not to say yours is but some sort of valid authentication is necessary in order to give it the value that a valid W.F. & Co. would support.

[Bruce Day]

I'll authenticate yours if you authenticate this one.

We know this one is real because the gun show table dealer said it was.

[Eric Eis]

Tell me, has anyone seen a real WF Parker shotgun that has been documented....

[Dennis V. Nix]

Would there possibly be some WF guns that were purchased from the factory and be lettered as such?

[paul stafford jr]

no , is there any info in the order books? BD may know

[edgarspencer]

4 pounds 2 ounces seems pretty heavy for barrels as short as those. Check the book to see what barrel length they were originally. The left hammer may be bent, but it's not a Parker hammer.

[Rick Losey]

how short are those barrels? the foreend seems to take a fair portion of the length.

[Dean Romig]

Looks like the original Parker Bros. hammer but bent and the barrels look to be about 22" or 23".

[Bill Murphy]

I suggest you get a PGCA letter on this gun so you know who originally purchased it.

[Mike Hines]

Thanks for the info so far! That's why I like going to forums like this. Keep it coming!

Yes the left hammer is bent. I wonder if that is related to the repaired stock. There was some engraving on the silver shield but I can't read it now. I also can't read the grade. I'll measure the barrels and post that in case it helps.

[Rick Losey]

if you give us the full serial number -one of us can check the "book" and if it is in there tell you the original barrel length

[George Lander]

WELLS FARGO did purchase guns of various types and did mark them as such. I have a Colt revolver marked "WF&Co." which has bee authenticated by Colt as having been shipped to WELLS FARGO in 1901 by the serial number. I'm not sure if there are any surviving Parker Bros.records which indicate guns purchased and shipped to WF.

Best Regards, George

[Mike Hines]

The barrels measure 22" and may have been cut judging from what little I know about this. There is a lead(?) filler visible between the muzzles.

The hammers appear to be the same size, style, etc. but the left one has been bent. The butt plate is also pretty worn.

The serial number is 45669.

I'll get some more detailed pictures when I can, I'm having to work this weekend.

[Eldon Goddard]

Book says 30''.

[Mike Hines]

Allow me to ask this, if the gun is not an actual Wells Fargo gun what would it be worth? I'm also checking with the Wells Fargo museum folks to see if they have any information.

[greg conomos]

Is that some really heavy wear on the bottom of the receiver?

[Dave Noreen]

The most documentable Wells Fargo guns are all the 26- and 24-inch barrel hammer guns purchased from Ithaca Gun Co. by Wells Fargo between 1909 and 1917. The listing was put together by a Wells Fargo historian and is published on pages 66 and 67 of the second edition of Walter Snyder's book The Ithaca Gun Company - From the Beginning.

[Bill Murphy]

PGCA letter, forty bucks.

[Mike Hines]

Yes, there appears to be pretty heavy wear on the bottom of the reciever and the butt plate is very worn. Maybe from bouncing around in a stage coach? ;-)

Does the PGCA letter show who purchased the gun from Parker? What other info is included? May I suggest that a sample letter be posted on the website so we could see what it covers?

[Dean Romig]

Generally a research letter on a low grade Parker will show the name of the hardware store or sporting goods dealer that placed the order.

[Robin Lewis]

The information varies depending on what was recorded. Some entries have the name of the person or company that placed the order but most were production guns that don't reflect a name. If WFC placed an order for multiple guns it may be recorded but if it was only one production gun probably not.


The research records are copies of the original Parker/Remington order books, stock books, and IBM cards. Some are in poor condition, and all are hand written. The Parker records contain many abbreviations and ditto marks. The grade of the gun is not listed in the order book. The price and barrel steel are used to determine grade from the entry. Ejector equipped guns are identified by an extra charge.
The research will include a review of both the order and stock books, and the IBM cards for Remington guns. The Research Committee will report on the gauge, grade, barrel length, stock configuration, butt, triggers, weight, stock dimensions and chokes noted in the record. Additional information will be reported when it is recorded on special orders. The researcher will omit information that cannot be clearly read. Copies of the stock and order book entries will not be included with the letter report. The Research Committee will sign the letter, and PGCA will retain a copy.

[Mike Hines]

Thanks again for your time and input!

[Destry L. Hoffard]

My guess is the Wells Fargo Company gets a request like this almost daily. These are heavily faked, every gun show has one or two it seems like. I've never heard of one that was real.

DLH

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I saw a gun this weekend that was marked Wells Fargo & Co it had a 22 stamped in the metal, barrels 24" This gun was a Forehand? the man also had a copy of an order from WFCo showing the order for 20 of these side by sides. Could not authenticate, Was there a Gun Co named forehand ? Gary

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Forehand and Wadsworth was a gun maker or at least a gun jobber back in the day. I've had a pistol marked with that name and a side hammer single shot marked them too.

DLH

[Robin Lewis]

Yes, I believe Forehand was either a part of, or bought by, Hopkins & Allen.

[edgarspencer]

Forehand & Wadsworth made beautiful revolvers. Their 44 brings as much as a good large frame S&W (Not a N Frame, a Top Break like the Schofield, No.3 American etc.)

[charlie cleveland]

i seen a few forehand single barrel shotguns a a picture of a hammerless shotgun... charlie

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I will be back at the gentlemans place to look at some other things, in a couple weeks I will try to get some photo's of the gun and the stampings

[Brian Dudley]

Is the hammer actually bent, or is it just not rebounding back to the proper position? I may guess the later.