GH: trouble opening after firing, your help is requested

[Matthew Winter]

I own an 1895 GH model that has difficulty opening on occasion. I have only used it with Winchester loads with a steel base. The gun will work flawlessly for 20 rounds or so, then I am unable to open the gun easily. I assumed a firing pins was still in the primer of a shell because the gun would not budge but a 64th of an inch or so, but I am not sure. I am able to open it after gently bumping the butt on a rubber pad on the ground.
Is this a problem with ammunition, brass vs steel, or is this a problem with a sear spring or other internal issue?
Thank you fellow patriots!
Matt

[Richard Flanders]

Some Parkers have rim recesses that are a tad tight for the poorly made ammo of today which often has out of round extractor rims that jam into the recesses when you close the gun and make it very difficult to open. I have a 28ga Repro that does this also. Remington STS ammo works in my DH12 but Win AA's can lock it up tight so that it has to be broken open over my knee. The recesses can be reamed but it is a touchy thing to do. All vintage paper shells also work in my DH12. Take a few shells and put the rims into the recesses backwards and rotate them to see if they are fitting or not. Take a block of something and push on your firing pins also to see if they're retracting properly or hang up. Could be enough gunk/corrosion inside to bind them up.

[Fred Preston]

I had a similar problem with my Trojan 16 a few times. Found that the auto safety was not moving fully, keeping the top lever from swinging completely.

[edgarspencer]

It is either rim or firing pin. As Richard says, see how the rim fits the extractor groove. My BHE hates Winchester, and loves RST (Figures; Winchesters at $64 a flat, RST at $110/flat) RST use steel primers, and Winchesters are either copper or copper plated, but definitely softer. It's only the Left barrel, and I just need to get it apart, see that it's isn't gummed, restricting the rebounding action, or that the firing pin isn't pitted, needing honing. Protrusion is good, so it's likely the two reasons for me. I know it's not rim swell, as the gun will be locked tight, and then as soon as it's freed up, opens with no drag.
Take a look at the indentation in each fired shell to determine if one is deeper than the other.

[Chuck Bishop]

I'll verify that some Parkers had problems with the rim cuts plus tight chambers. You should notice that the gun is hard to close on these shells. I do know that some manufacturers shells have different rim profiles. Many modern trap guns have trouble ejecting steel base shells.

If it happens often enough, try dry firing on a snap cap and see if you can get it to reproduce

[edgarspencer]

If it's a gummy hammer, not rebounding, the spring inside the snap cap is just going to push the hammer back. Not sure it would tell you anything.

[Andy Kelley]

Had a similar problem with Fox A grade .My gun would jam on attempts at breaking with WinchesterAA shells but functions fine with Federals. You are not alone...

[andy stone]

I also had the same issue with a GH and a Fox A grade with Winchesters. Switched to Federal game loads and have had no further problems. I even experienced it with my 16 ga reloads with Win 209 primers. Went to Remington type primers and again no problems.
A

[Matthew Winter]

Thank you guys! I will try the federal loads.
I use snap caps all the time and have not been able to reproduce the issue until after firing both with live rounds. So, because it has not hung up after the right barrel has gone off, it could still be a left side issue with the internals.
What makes me suspect that it may be internals is that after I butt the butt lightly on a rubber pad or bang the receiver with the palm of my hand to try to loosen a possible stuck hammer, it would be seemingly locked tight. But when it was ready to open, it would just release nice and easy. Not as if something was hanging up like the rim of a shell.
Any more thoughts?
Thanks

[Brad Bachelder]

Matthew,
This is a problem that we run into quite frequently with vintage barrels. Steel based shells expand very differently than the old brass based shells. The thin steel flattens and expands to conform with the chamber. In addition many early chambers tend to be slightly undersized and short rimmed. Our fix for the problem is to fully recut the chambers and rims, polish to a mirror finish and the problem is cured, It works every time.

Brad

[edgarspencer]

What you're saying, Brad, is exactly what I first suspected, but the shell fired from the offending side drops right back into the chamber fully, and even seems loose, or at least the same sort of clearance as the non-offending side.
The indentation in the primer is visibly deeper than the non-offending side, and there is evidence of the firing pin dragging on the lower edge of the indentation.
A while later, I was using one of my non-ejector guns and experienced the same thing, so, to try and eliminate one or the other (Chamber vs firing pin) I took the extractor out, fired that barrel, had approximately the same resistance to opening, then poked the empty hull out with a dowel, with no resistance.
What bugs me is that when measuring the firing pin protrusion on the offending side, it seems no different than the side that gives me no issues. It just seems that that firing pin goes further into the primer than the other side. They are obviously in a rebounded position at that point, but for whatever reason, the travel seems greater on firing on the bad side. Can the body of the hammer actually contact the pocket in the frame if it were dry fired excessively? Worded differently, what stops the forward motion of the hammer when there's no shell for the pin to contact?

[Chuck Bishop]

I'd probably have someone take it apart and give it a good cleaning internally if you haven't already done so. Just to be sure it's not a crud issue.

Steel bases are not only a problem with vintage guns. In my case, my one 12ga DH would have problems with even new brass based shells. It seemed more to do with the rim profile of the shell plus a tight chamber and shallow rim cuts on my barrels. Some manufacturers have a 90 degree cut and others have a slightly rounded rim to the body wall of the base. I'd notice that on some shells it was difficult to close the action. Upon firing, I could just get the barrels to slightly release from the breach face. Taking a wooden ram rod and going in from the muzzle and pushing on the spent shell would let the gun open fully. I had the rims cut slightly deeper plus I did a little filing on the extractor. It was real tight going into it's cutout.

[Matthew Winter]

Thanks Brad. I will send you a PM.
I like the cutting and polishing idea. Can I improve or damage anything with a brake hone?
Would a little grease around the lip help, at least to diagnose this issue?
In the mean time, I have 4 cases of federal shells on the way to give them a try. I burn up a lot of ammo shooting 5 stand at the Escondido Fish and Game so 4 cases goes fast.
Last week I brought this gun out of retirement and shot my best score ever after months of shooting holes in the sky with my auto-loader. In other words, I want to take care of this gun! I learned to shoot with this gun and it has been in the family since new. It handles so much better than my Major Brand auto-loader. There are no comparisons.

Matthew Winter
Escondido, Ca.
San Diego County
KI6TWW

[paul stafford jr]

send the gun to brad he is the best barrel man in these parts. the work he has done for me and my son is of the highest quality....like the saying gos "no brag just fact"

[Andy Kelley]

Matthew , all of the suggestions from fellow members have merit but I like to try the cheapest, less invasive approach. Try the Federals ....you might be lucky .

[Brian Dudley]

I had a Parker 12g. once that had a similar issue. It shot fine for a while and then wanted to open hard as the pins were hanging up in the primers just a bit. Actually, it was really only one side that was giving me issues. The end of the pin had gotten a bit messed up somehow. I just removed the hammer and reworked the end of the pin back to a round tip. No issues again after that.

[edgarspencer]

I had a Parker 12g. once that had a similar issue. It shot fine for a while and then wanted to open hard as the pins were hanging up in the primers just a bit. Actually, it was really only one side that was giving me issues. The end of the pin had gotten a bit messed up somehow. I just removed the hammer and reworked the end of the pin back to a round tip. No issues again after that.

Not to take anything away from what Brad was describing, but Brian, what you found is just what I was also finding, and just the same way; one barrel, but not both.