Parker No. 72405 [Archive] - Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums

Dean Romig

01-21-2013, 10:33 PM

It's not "unlisted". It's just not in the Serialization Book. Send our researcher a check for $40 and get a letter.

Slight correction there fellas. The price of a Research letter for non-members is $100 but if you join the PGCA for an annual fee of $40 you can get as many letters as you wish for $40 each. There are a number of benefits to becoming a PGCA Member beyond just the price of the letters.

Gerald McPherson

01-21-2013, 11:22 PM

I assume then there are records in the order books and this may tell who ordered it. Right?

Bill Murphy

01-22-2013, 10:32 AM

That would be my assumption. You may be $40 away from a Buffalo Bill C Grade.

Dean Romig

01-22-2013, 11:36 AM

That would be my assumption. You may be $100 away from a Buffalo Bill C Grade.

Slight correction Bill.

Gerald McPherson

01-22-2013, 01:54 PM

Thanks Bill and Dean; I think if I were to decide to go with this I will take the two 40 dollar trails. I am trying to not let this Parker thing get to me at this point in my life as I just got rid of a Browning collection not to long ago but it is hard not to look and think about it. This is the first whole c grade have seen down here and it does have some issues although they are not to bad. Beleive it or not its right out my back door. At $3500 I will be scatching my head awhile. We need a smiles that is scratching its head.:bigbye:

Jack Cronkhite

01-23-2013, 09:15 AM

http://images.zaazu.com/img/scratch-head03-idea-animated-animation-smiley-emoticon-000416-large.gif

Gerald McPherson

01-23-2013, 09:37 AM

Chuck Bishop

01-23-2013, 11:34 AM

Gerald,

Please check the serial number again and make sure it is in fact 72405. It does not show up as a C grade gun.

Yes, there is an order for this gun so it will tell you who ordered the gun.

Gerald McPherson

01-23-2013, 01:21 PM

What does it show as? It is a c grade. Gerald

Chuck Bishop

01-23-2013, 03:22 PM

Gerald,

72405 shows as a Quality T hammer gun 12ga with 30" plain twist barrels in the Order Book priced at $55.00. The orders for all hammerless guns are abbreviated "Hamls" in the order book. It was part of a very large order from Hartley & Graham in NYC. Two pages are "Hamls" guns and the 3rd page with your serial number does not have "Hamls" which means they were hammer guns.

$55.00 which is in the 1889 price list corresponds to a Quality T 12ga. There is no price list for hammerless. The 1897 price lists also lists the Quality T as $55.00 and the hammerless guns are now listed also and there is no $55.00 dollar gun listed. A PH hammerless is listed as the lowest grade at $65.00.

The order book clearly states $55.00

Have you personally handled the gun and looked at the serial numbers?

Gerald McPherson

01-23-2013, 03:40 PM

Yes I have looked it over however the owner wrote the serial no down and gave it to me. I will check again. Thanks. Gerald

Gary Carmichael Sr

01-23-2013, 08:20 PM

Some very influential people owned low grade hammer guns also!

Gerald McPherson

01-23-2013, 09:00 PM

Chuck; 72495 is the correct serial no. Thanks. Gerald

Dean Romig

01-23-2013, 09:07 PM

Gerald, we need pictures of your gun please.

David Noble

01-23-2013, 10:15 PM

I'll spill the beans here. The I&S book shows this gun to be a CH 12ga with 30" Bernard steel barrels. Please do post pictures of this gun.

Paul Stafford

01-23-2013, 11:01 PM

At $3500, I'd pay that for the Bernard barrels alone.

Jack Cronkhite

01-23-2013, 11:06 PM

That's It!!!!!!!!! Thanks Jack. I looked at your public profile and when I saw your pic I instantly knew we are meant to be hunting buddies. Some people take thing too seriously on this forum. We have a couple of weeks of quail season left . Do you know where we might find a few coveys of wild birds? Pen raised birds don't turn me on. Gerald

Thanks Gerald. One can never have too many hunting buddies. I have never shot a pen raised bird nor a single quail (or a double for that matter). I have never lived where pen raised birds were available. I chase mostly wild pheasants and take the huns or sharptails that might be unlucky enough to be in my pheasant haunts. This is my fairly normal season habitat.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/20061220_IMG_9999_29s.JPG
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/20061219_IMG_9999S.JPG
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/20061205_IMG_9999_11s.JPG
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=120&pictureid=4177
http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=120&pictureid=2334

And the payoff

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=120&pictureid=4175
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/20081014_IMG_9999_5sgwsmall.jpg

And the real reward

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/20080214_IMG_9999_16sgw.JPG

Gerald McPherson

01-24-2013, 09:11 AM

WOW!!!! I love the first pic. You can see the desire in his eyes. All that snow looks fearsome. I could not take that and your dog is naked. My Goodness. Now that last pic looks good. I had my first fezent awhile back. It was good but not as good as quail but was much bigger. Some where out there is a perfect bird. Huge and delicious. Don't kill them all. Leave some for seed. Gerald

Jack Cronkhite

01-24-2013, 09:27 AM

Not too many pheasant hunters in my cold world. On the very fringe of wild pheasant habitat. Seed birds are no problem based on my shooting. Weather is the biggest factor controlling the population followed by predation and then hunting. This is from a few seasons back but it was a good day for me using my Dad's SKB XL900 12 ga. Note the lack of snow, indicating early season for me.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/20081114_IMG_9999_22sgw.jpg
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/20071109_IMG_9999_31_sgw.JPG

Chuck Bishop

01-24-2013, 10:02 AM

Ahhh, now we're getting somewhere! Gun does show as a CH with 30" Bernard barrels. I'd get a letter, it will tell you who ordered the gun and other specifics.

Gerald McPherson

01-24-2013, 03:23 PM

Here you go Dean:corn:

Dean Romig

01-24-2013, 03:28 PM

Those pictures remove all doubt Gerald. A very nice CH Bernard gun to be sure.

And on a 1-Frame too... nice!

Too bad about that bruise on the left tube. Looks like it may have been dropped on a rock and the dent lifted.

It has the early Grade-4 checkering pattern on the wrist too... nice again! That split up from the toe can be easily repaired.

Gerald McPherson

01-24-2013, 03:43 PM

The issues that I see are; Cracked stock easy fix, chips out of left barrel {see last pics} can see something inside the bore in that area. The gun needs a gentle cleaning.The cc does not show in the pics and appears to be much more to me as over all the receiver is much darker than the pic show. The wood finish is good with a few light handling marks and I think it will clean up great. I beleive it has not been fired or cleaned in several decades. Thanks. Gerald. P.S. Anyone have experience with Briley tubes? Still Scratching.

Gerald McPherson

01-24-2013, 03:45 PM

20 gauge 1 frame with tubes I guess would be a good route to go HUH? Also the gun is very tight and on face and the tubes ring very well.

Gerald McPherson

01-24-2013, 03:56 PM

Jack: Do a thread search with NO Birds in NW Georgia and you can see my hunting ground. Gerald

Fred Verry

01-24-2013, 06:40 PM

Gerald, that is a very attractive CH Parker. Do you have a means of measuring the barrel wall thickness in the dinged areas of the barrel? These measurements would be a starting point for evaluating the viability of the barrel and the necessity for tubes or sleeving. A larger number might not insure the ability to use the barrel safely, but a low enough thickness value or an apparent defect in a weld seam would send a red flag that new tubes would be needed. The tricky part is getting a mic with a fine enough point to go down into the "pits". Even if barrel work is required, it will still be a fine gun.

Gerald McPherson

01-24-2013, 08:22 PM

No Fred I do not. I did notice the barrels were thicker at the choke ends than some damascus barrels I have seen. I wonder if there is a way the barrel could be repaired that would be safe. can material be added? Gerald.

Gerald McPherson

01-24-2013, 08:55 PM

Dean; As I continue to look at the pics and enlarge them I am thinking the nicks in the barrel are more consistant with it maybe hung on a nail or something hard many times. The bores are dirty but looked good as for as pits. I don't much think dents have been raised. I sure would like to give the bores a good cleaning so I could for sure see what they look like.Also is the grip cap not silver and the triggers gold on c grades of that era? Thanks. Gerald.

David Noble

01-25-2013, 01:58 AM

CH, 1 frame, Bernard steel, $3500, right outside your back door and a fishtail lever to boot!
Gerald, you've been living right!

Craig Larter

01-25-2013, 06:35 AM

WOW! What a nice find----it's easy to get addicted to Bernard barrels---very pretty gun.
To me it looks like the barrel may have been touched by a rotating blade of some sort at some point. What does the gun weight? What is the engraving scene on the trigger plate. I was very lucky and picked up a CHE Bernard last year-----I was very fortunate as are you. Great and thanks so much for sharing and posting the pictures. Craig

Gerald McPherson

01-25-2013, 08:54 AM

I don't own the c grade. It belongs to a neighbor who is joining PGCA and also sending for a letter which I reccomended. He was thinking about selling it on GB until we began to talk. Now he is scratching his head instead of me. Craig; It looks like a deer in the pics with dogs on the sides. Gerald.

Harryreed

10-25-2013, 10:11 AM

Hi All,
After input from Gerald and others in this group, I decided to have the C grade restored. My guidelines for the restoration was to keep it all original. No new wood, etc... Because the gun conformed to the Parker Letter, I didn't want to change any components. The pictures earlier in this post will provide you a "before" condition. With the conditions of the barrels prior to restoration I would have never considered firing this Parker. I can tell you now it has been fired, and what a wonderful treat it was. Some may disagree, but my enjoyment of owning this ole classic shotgun has gone up exponentially. From a closet gun to a working Parker!! Please excuse my camera quality, but taking photos of small defined objects is not my strong suit. Please feel free to post comments pro or con. This is how we learn as a group.

Harry

Rick Losey

10-25-2013, 10:36 AM

that looks great Harry, one to be proud of

who did the work?

Harryreed

10-25-2013, 10:44 AM

Bill Schwartz Ellijay GA

Pat Dugan

10-25-2013, 02:59 PM

Bill has done quite a few Parkers for me and I have always been super satisfied. He is a craftsman

He also has fixed a design problem with CSMC Parker Repro .410 Barrels.

Gerald McPherson

10-25-2013, 05:34 PM

My Goodness Harry that is great. Did Bill do that? Gerald

Harryreed

10-25-2013, 07:21 PM

Indeed! I was impressed the minute I saw it. He is a craftsman.

Bill Murphy

10-26-2013, 09:32 AM

Do we get to share in the information about the original purchaser?

Harryreed

10-26-2013, 11:08 AM

I do not know who the original purchaser is. The PGCA letter states it was ordered by Buhl Sons & Co, Detroit MI, 1893. In doing the restoration the plate in the stock still has some cursive script initials I cannot make out. I beleive they are FSB. I bought the Parker in the 80's from Hershal Chaddick, Terrell TX. We corresponded by mail and phone about this Parker. At NO time did Hershal ever disclose the damage to the left barrel. Needless to say, after several exchanges by mail and phone with Chaddicks, I sent the funds to purchase. After receipt and inspection I felt screwed. Their position was the Parker was priced accordingly and my expectations were not realistic. He would not consider my return of the Parker. So, I put it in the back of my safe and time has passed. I never thought the barrel could be repaired! Chaddicks, at that time was well known for trading Parkers and other vintage shotguns. I don't know if they even still exist. At that time, Hershal was reluctant to disclose the origin of the shotgun or who he acquired it from. I can understand that if the seller requested to be anonomous.

This is why forums like this and feedback on auction sites are so valuable to folks when buying firearms.

Harry

Harryreed

11-18-2013, 09:24 PM

I am curious? Has anyone on this site ever had any dealings with Chaddicks, or, Chadicks?

edgarspencer

11-19-2013, 04:45 AM

I am curious? Has anyone on this site ever had any dealings with Chaddicks, or, Chadicks?

30 years ago. NEVER again!

Bill Murphy

11-19-2013, 04:42 PM

I have a file of letters back and forth from Herschel and the previous owner, a friend of mine. Hershel sold him a fake, cut skeet gun that a child would proclaim a fake. Herschel refused to take it back after a long correspondence. It was advertised as a skeet gun in his ad, which I still have. It's a nice gun, but at serial number 207,672, it's no skeet gun. The barrels were taken out to about .742 to reclaim some choke. Herschel knew it was a bad gun and he found a sucker to send a check. Once he had the check, the deal was done. My friend had to lowball the gun to a dealer, from whom I bought the gun, a cut 26" DHE with Parker single trigger and factory beavertail, for $1500.

Bruce Day

11-19-2013, 05:53 PM

Mr Chaddick is elderly and in poor health. Hershel was always personable and friendly toward me and I was pleased to know and deal with him. I bought one gun from him, a C grade that was correct, fair priced and in higher condition than stated. It remains an important gun for me today and within a few years, I could have sold it for more than I paid.

I visited Hershel in his shop and later his residence in Terrell,Texas, went to lunch with him and listened intently to his explanations of Parkers, the Parker gun business and stories of his life in the trade.

Chaddicks advertised in the early Parker Pages, he was a supporter of the PGCA and gave a presentation at an early annual meeting when we had them in Ohio. Other dealers and well known auction houses have similarly been generous in their support.

Many of the highest grade Parkers that are in important collections today passed through Terrell, Texas.

Thanks Hershel.

Harryreed

11-19-2013, 08:36 PM

Thanks so much for the replys. I was quite bitter after my experience with Hershal. But, for me now, it has worked out. I guess time time cures all.

Harry

Harryreed

11-19-2013, 08:36 PM

BD,

That is a nice Parker!!!

Harryreed

05-08-2023, 06:17 PM

Today was a “passing of the guard” for the CH Parker in this thread. The gun now belongs to my nephew, along with my 20 ga Parker Reproduction and 1894 Francotti 12 ga. My hope is he will join PGCA and this forum for the wealth of knowledge here. I will remain a member of PGCA and enjoy your posts. My nephew is a quail and duck hunter and has a well trained black lab named Rose! He owned the lab in my avatar photo.

Harry