2-1/2" load data collection

[Mike Kasterin]

What is the best way to find collected or assembled data for 12 ga 2-1/2" shells? Is there anything like the 16 gauge Reloaders Spreadsheet?

I live in AK so some of the components and all of the store bought 2-1/2" shells are unavailable. Therefore, I need to comb through data to find what i can acquire components here, or through the mail. Shipping shells pretty much doubles their price here due to haz mat restrictions.
Thanks

Mike

[Rich Anderson]

Mike you should be able to get data from the powder company websites.

[John Farrell]

Mike - here's a history lesson. It does not come from any recognized authority, powder company, shell manufacturer or Cliff Claven. It is simply a solution derived from common sense.

I find that recipe differences between 2 1/2" shotshell loads and 2 3/4" shotshell loads is nil. The only difference between the two shells is there is less plastic (or paper) above the shot in the 2 1/2" shell versus big brother.

The sole reason for the 2 3/4" shell is the shotshell industry moved to a fold crimp from a roll crimp. The roll crimp was more expensive, (crimping machine replacement wise) and required a printed overshot card to complete the assembly. The cost of replacing the crimp tools was ameliorated with the fold crimp. The amount of hull above the shot for a fold crimp is greater than that required in the roll crimped shells. Solution for 2 3/4" shotshells - add more hull.

I regularly reload shells and roll crimp them with the same recipe I use for fold crimp shells. For 2 1/2" reloads, think about roll crimping your finished hulls. I find that lo pressure 2 3/4" recipes work just fine in my shorter reloads.

[Mike Kasterin]

John-I have reloaded for many years but hardly experimented at all. I have heard/read that roll crimps are lower pressure than fold. which seem to make sense. I ahve loaded 16 gauge fold crimp 2-1/2" and 2-5/8" cases with success using recipes from the 16 gauge reloaders group or Ballistic Products manuals.

I may roll crimp eventually, but I'd also like to just fold crimp 2-1/2s. So what you say is that the pressure is the same using 2-3/4" load data including the same wads, in 2-3/4" cases.

Mike

[John Dallas]

Remember that all shot shell length dimensions are for a open, fired case. How long is your folded crimp 2 1/2" shell when fired?

[Mike Kasterin]

My fired 2-1/2" cases are just that. I have loaded 2-1/2s and 2-5/8s in 16 gauge using recipes specifcally for the case and length. These were 7/8 ounce beautiful loads with plenty of space in the case. I have yet to try 2-1/2 12 ga.

[Paul Harm]

Mike, what John was pointing out was 2 1/2" shells are longer than that when fired. When you ask for 2 1/2" load data everyone thinks you mean 2 1/2" unfired length. So first off you'll have to get on the same page as everyone else. What you're really asking for is data for about a 2 1/8" shell. Why do you want to reload shells that short ? Chambers for 2 1/2 or 2 5/8 are for shells that long after they're fired. If we're talking about double or single barrel guns [ not pumps or autos ] a 2 3/4" shell will fit in a gun with 2 1/2" chambers and will fire just fine with pressures only going up about 1000psi. If you want to shorten shells that's fine, just use the same data for longer shells and figure out how to make everything fit in the shell. One as mentioned is to roll crimp. Another is to use fiber wads. Third, use plastic wads meant for say 1 3/8oz loads but only load 7/8oz. Being retired and having too much time on my hands I once went to 2" shells with a fold crimp. Even figured out how to do it on a Mec. I cut out the cushion part of a plastic wad, and made the punch in the final crimp die longer. Even took apart a box for shells and re-cut and glued them back together to fit the 2" shells. The easy way would be to go to 3/4oz loads in the 12ga but use a 1oz or 1 1/8oz wad. Good luck.

[Paul Harm]

Got to thinking - some of the guys at the club were trying to load 3/4oz 12ga with wads for 1 or 7/8oz by putting a navy bean in to make up the room for a good crimp. With Claybuster wads, the CB1100 is for 1 or 1 1/8oz, or the CB4100 is for 7/8 or 1oz load. You could try the 1100 and use just 3/4oz - the shot would most likely sit down in far enough for 2 1/2" shell. And don't think there isn't enough shot with a 3/4oz load - it breaks clay birds just as good as the 1 1/8oz load and makes your pattern tighter. Nice on the shoulder.

[Daryl Corona]

Try the claybuster CB0175-12 wad designed for 3/4oz. and make pea soup with the beans.:)

[Mike Kasterin]

Paul-I'm short, are you?

I have factory labelled boxes of shells of different lengths. Some of these are (B&P for example) are labelled 2-1/2" They measure about 2-1/8" standing tall as loaded. Fired they are 2-1/2", which is the same length as my Frogger's chamber (65mm). Yup, I've fired 2-3/4' loads in the same gun.

I want recipes for 2-1/2' length as fired cases, that's all. Why? No need for extra recoil (for example, my French Parker weighs 5# 10.) More pressure is felt on the rear of the stock...

Anyone know a good shop in the Portland area that has a good selection of shell for vintagers?

Thanks Guys!

Mike

[Paul Harm]

Daryl, this was before the 0175 wad was available. Mike, I don't load for the 20, but from the IMR handbook with a 2 3/4" shell - Rem primer, 17.5grs of 800X, and 7/8oz in a CB1078 wad you'll get 7900psi. If you load it in a 2 1/2' shell with only 3/4oz of shot your pressure will drop and it may fit with less shot. All you can do is try. There are any number of recipes that are in the 7000 range and by going to fiber wads from www.circlefly.com you could make em fit in a 2 1/2" shell at lower pressures. Good luck - Paul