Relative merits of pre/post 1934 Parkers

[John Havard]

Still trying to learn a bit more about the nuances of collecting Parkers. Most everyone on this forum has more experience and has handled more Parkers than I have.

In particular I'd appreciate any advice or input other members might have about the fit/finish/quality & therefore the collectible value of a pre-'34 Parker versus a post-'34 Parker.

Thanks in advance for your input and observations.

[Peter Clark]

John,
I am no expert but having both, the only thing I see is that the newer ones look newer if taken care of (because they are newer) and the wood is fancier for lower grade guns like VH or VHE. My two 1935 guns are tight as a bank vault. I wish my repros closed up that way. I think the early ones like mine were made in the factory, in the same way and by the same people as before Remington bought them.
-plc-

[John Havard]

From the "manufacture date by serial number" page here on the PGCA website it would appear that all shotguns post-'34 are not considered "Parkers" by the cognoscenti?

[Bruce Day]

John, the criteria for monetary appreciation, if that is the standard for collectibility, have been gauge, condition and grade. Of that, gauge, gauge, gauge, for right or wrong, has been most significant.

There are groups of collectors who like lifter actions, top action hammerless, hammerless from 1889 to 1900, post 1900 hammer guns, 1900 to 1910, 1910-1918, about every era you can consider. Most of mine are 1904 to 1910. But I have the last record book C from 1939.

Just look at each gun individually without preconceived notions.

As for your question about post '34 guns not being considered Parkers, if I am a "cognoscenti", I could not disagree more. You might look at the very favorable comments made about Remington made Parkers in TPS.

[Jerry Harlow]

John,

A very distinctive and beautiful feature of the stock of any uncut Parker (VH/GH) is the widow's peak buttplate. When Remington eliminated this in favor of just a curved buttplate, I'm sure as a savings in manufacturing, the tide had turned from making a product as it had been made for forty years to making a profit. I do not like that feature on the later Remington/Parkers in the lower grades.

[Bruce Day]

John,

A very distinctive and beautiful feature of the stock of any uncut Parker (VH/GH) is the widow's peak buttplate. When Remington eliminated this in favor of just a curved buttplate, I'm sure as a savings in manufacturing, the tide had turned from making a product as it had been made for forty years to making a profit. I do not like that feature on the later Remington/Parkers in the lower grades.


Jerry, Remington did not eliminate the peaked dog's head buttplate. Parker Bros. did. The change started in 1921 and was generally complete by 1926, although later guns can be found sometimes with the peak as old inventory was used. See TPS for details. I have a 1921 gun, made by Parker Bros in Ilion with the flat DHBP. There were many cost savings measures taken over many years in an attempt to keep the Parker gun price competitive.

If a new V or G grade Parker was to be produced today , with quality of the mid production years, my guess derived after talking to informed makers, is that it would cost $17,000 to $20,000. The new excellent AAHE 28ga costs $50,000..... few have been sold yet the price is not unrealistic.

1921 P with flat DHBP:

[Jerry Harlow]

Bruce,

Sorry for being wrong. I thought Remington, once Parker was purchased, was the one that went completely to the flat buttplate on those grades? I have always associated the flat buttplates with the Remington era. I guess I need to read TPS more often and stop just looking at the photos.

My apologies.

[Bill Murphy]

John Havard, maybe the wording in the "date of manufacture" section could have been better chosen. Maybe "under Remington ownership" might be clearer than "Remington gun".

[Bruce Day]

No big deal Jerry, We all learn from each other. I'm sure you know many things I don't.

[John Havard]

Bill, if I type in a serial number larger than the 236XXX cutoff here's what one gets:

"Parker 236XXX was made in the Post 1934 Remington Gun period."

Doesn't say it's not a Parker but the inference (to this one student trying to learn) is that beyond 1934 the records are not worth keeping or are not worth reporting.

I'm sure the information exists in the TPS and I've probably read it (memory is the second thing that goes dammit!), but is it possible to learn anything about a Remington-era Parker from its serial number? Who ordered it? Where it went? For me that's one of the strongest allures for collecting Parkers. While I can't afford any Parkers with interesting provenance it's still a fun buzz to learn when a particular gun was made and where it went/who bought it.

[Bruce Day]

[quote=John Havard;92833] While I can't afford any Parkers with interesting provenance ...../quote]

I've been in Mill Valley and I appreciate your pain living in such a dreadful place. :)

Lots of Parkers were sold in your area by Parker's famous West Coast agent, Arthur DuBray, who was in the 7th Cav, but in the rear. I'm sure there are many great guns there.

[John Havard]

Bruce, life is indeed tough here in Marin County. :)

Unfortunately I haven't yet found any other Parker collectors/owners out here. I'm on the hunt but so far, no joy.

[Brian Dudley]

Well, I think your cutoff should be more like pre or post '37 since that is when the guns were assembled at ilion,ny. From '34 to '37, the guns were still built in Meriden by the same craftsman that were making them prior to '34.
Fit, finish and quality were really the same. Some debate that the Remington barrels were better. And there are some styling difference in the stocks compared to the earlier Meriden guns.
In my opinion, the engraving on the guns built in Remington was not as nice as the earlier Meriden guns. Same patterns, but not as fine.

[Bill Murphy]

John, the occasional IBM card identifies the original retail purchaser. More often, the dealer is identified. D. Lee Braun's 28 gauge skeet gun was identified by the IBM card as was the 20 gauge skeet built for his father in law. It's worth a shot.

[Pete Lester]

Still trying to learn a bit more about the nuances of collecting Parkers. Most everyone on this forum has more experience and has handled more Parkers than I have.

In particular I'd appreciate any advice or input other members might have about the fit/finish/quality & therefore the collectible value of a pre-'34 Parker versus a post-'34 Parker.

Thanks in advance for your input and observations.

There are some very nice guns produced in relatively low numbers from that era. I would say a Parker on a 1/2 frame (all post '34) has some collector value. Post '34 Skeet guns and Double Traps have a some collector value too.

[greg conomos]

While I prefer the pre-Remington Parkers (I consider a gun made in Meriden more 'Parker' than one made in Ilion) I have to admit my 241XXX has a lock-up that feels like a miniature Swiss vault closing; a feeling my Merdien guns don't quite have.

[Tony Ambrose]

John - its good to see other PGCA members with similar "other" interests (beyond Parkers). I'm speaking of our mutual interest in archery of the "low-tech" variety!

[John Havard]

Thanks Tony. Collecting Parkers is a lot like traditional archery - there's a very strong correlation between such interests and men who are intelligent, handsome, erudite, well-endowed, and humble.

[Bruce Day]

xxxx

[will evans]

Thanks Tony. Collecting Parkers is a lot like traditional archery - there's a very strong correlation between such interests and men who are intelligent, handsome, erudite, well-endowed, and humble.

Humble has always been my favorite late addition to such a litany of self-imposed descriptors.

[John Havard]

Yes Will, humility above all else.

[Tony Ambrose]

Thanks Tony. Collecting Parkers is a lot like traditional archery - there's a very strong correlation between such interests and men who are intelligent, handsome, erudite, well-endowed, and humble.

:)

John - you gave me a good laugh this morning!!!