Let us see some Folsom ordered trap guns

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Here are some photo's of a 12g a 30" barreled 'TRAP' gun ordered by Folsom. Note the barrel steel is not engraved on the rib, also note the flying pigeon butt plate which was only used on guns ordered by Folsom for guns designated as Trap, I believe Folsom sent the mold to Parker for these butt plates. The barrels are laminated as called out in the letter, and is so stamped on the barrel flats. The gun is a one frame. I wish I had photo's of this gun before brads restoration, I started to sell it as a parts gun but with the unique features decided to save it, and I am glad she has been brought back to life, Thanks Brad for your work on this gun. Fellows I bought this gun at a gun show several years ago for 200.00 The reason was its terrible condition and the dealer said someone has changed the buttplate and it was not original to the gun it did not take me long to give him two hundred dollars, I knew the plate was Folsom. NEVER ! walk by an old Parker regardless of condition with out giving her a good look see! Tank You Gary

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

This is the rest of the gun, Gary

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Notice the order number is stamped on the barrel flats also

[charlie cleveland]

nice gun im sure your glad you saved this one...nice work done on this gun... charlie

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Charlie, like any Parker, no matter the grade or fancy engraving it is a joy to shoot! glad to have found her in the junk yard so to speak. Gary

[Bill Zachow]

Gary, nice gun. I have a "Trap" also, serial 27777, shipped on order 14744. I have the complete order covering 69 trap guns. I wrote an article for Parker Pages some years ago about these guns and Parker's dealings with Folsom. The order I have show, besides the guns, the sale of "2 rubber dies" for $50. These, I assume are the dies used to make the special buttplates. I believe that since Folsom purchased the dies, they realized they could make their own plates. Does your order specify "trap gun butt" as mine (order 14744) does? If not, then Folsom fitted the plates themselves. As you can see, I have found these guns very interesting.

[George M. Purtill]

Like I always say, when I grow up I want to be Gary Carmichael.

[George M. Purtill]

Gary, nice gun. I have a "Trap" also, serial 27777, shipped on order 14744. I have the complete order covering 69 trap guns. I wrote an article for Parker Pages some years ago about these guns and Parker's dealings with Folsom. The order I have show, besides the guns, the sale of "2 rubber dies" for $50. These, I assume are the dies used to make the special buttplates. I believe that since Folsom purchased the dies, they realized they could make their own plates. Does your order specify "trap gun butt" as mine (order 14744) does? If not, then Folsom fitted the plates themselves. As you can see, I have found these guns very interesting.

Bill that was a very nice article you wrote. I remember it well.

[George M. Purtill]

This is what a Folsom Trap gun looks like in its case. #27607
I think the order # is 15464, an order of 25 guns.

[George M. Purtill]

Gary
I did save a few before pictures of the locks in process.
Brad has the rest of the gun and it should be home in a while.

[Dean Romig]

I believe one currently resides in the display case at the Meriden Historical Society.

[Dean Romig]

Good grief George... put some pants on.

Incredible amount of crud behind those lock plates but what a nice job of cleaning you did.

[Jeff Kuss]

Ten ga. and 12 ga.

[George M. Purtill]

Notice the order number is stamped on the barrel flats also

Our guns were in the same order. I knew we were related.

[Bill Zachow]

Does order 15464 specify "trap gun butt"? Could our official researcher give us this information, if it is not against the rules? I noted that Gary's letter did not mention it. I am interested because of the die transfer in my earlier letter.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

George then I guess our guns were ordered at the same time my order number is 15464

[George M. Purtill]

Gary
My gun is with Brad right now so I can't say for sure but my records say the barrels are Plain Twist 32 inches 12 gauge.
Brad is doing the barrels and fixing a lock. And a couple other things.
I will post pictures.

I bought the gun for the case.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Looks like the ten gauge guns had the pigeon flying to the right instead of the left like 12's

[Craig Parker]

Another one on that order from Folsom, Grade 1 32" Lam 10 gauge.

Craig

[George M. Purtill]

Looks like the ten gauge guns had the pigeon flying to the right instead of the left like 12's

And the bird is different as well?

[Bill Zachow]

For everyones' information, especially the private messengers, (I am lousy about returning messages) I note that the above "factory letter" does not detail out the "trap gun butt". Since Mr. Conrad had the order book and order, I would think that specific information was most critical to the documentation of these guns. As I mentioned earlier, order number 14744, covering 69 trap guns and 60 "not trap" clearly identifies which is which in the first column of the order. Until our researcher can further clarify this point, I will continue to think that Folsom, using the dies purchased in order 14744, made the buttplates themselves and fit them to non specific Parker guns, as needed.

[Chuck Bishop]

I've looked at both orders 14744 and 15464.

As Bill Zachow states, 14744 was a very large order from Folsom Arms on March 9, 1882. On the first page of the order in the left hand column, it says "Top Action, Ext Rib". 1882 was about the time the top action was introduced. On the first page, the entire order was 4 1/2 pages and each page had about 40 guns on it, near the bottom is a bracket in the left hand column saying "Trap Gun Butt." These Trap Gun Butt guns continued on the next page and ended on the third page about 2/3 of the way down the page. The rest of the page and the 4th page had "Not Trap" indicating standard butts. At the end of the order, after the last gun listed, it says: (2) Rubber dies $50.00. It also says, if I read it correctly "Deliv in July & later". Remember these guns were ordered in March but most were not shipped until late in 1882 and in some cases delivered in the spring of 1883.

Order # 15464 was a full 1 page order (about 40 guns) placed on May 29, 1882. This order also said "Top Act, Ext Rib" in the left hand column and also listed a large group of guns as "Trap Gun Butts." There is no indication of rubber dies being ordered.

There is nothing in the Stock Book indicating the guns were for Folsom.

[Bill Zachow]

Thank you for the info on order 15464. Members with guns from this order might wish to have their letters updated with the trap gun butt designation.

[George M. Purtill]

Gary, nice gun. I have a "Trap" also, serial 27777, shipped on order 14744. I have the complete order covering 69 trap guns. I wrote an article for Parker Pages some years ago about these guns and Parker's dealings with Folsom. The order I have show, besides the guns, the sale of "2 rubber dies" for $50. These, I assume are the dies used to make the special buttplates. I believe that since Folsom purchased the dies, they realized they could make their own plates. Does your order specify "trap gun butt" as mine (order 14744) does? If not, then Folsom fitted the plates themselves. As you can see, I have found these guns very interesting.

Bill
Would you mind if I wrote an update to your article? There are some very fine pictures in this thread that I would include with permission of course.

[Bill Zachow]

George, not at all. Perhaps you could ask our researcher if there are any other orders from Folsom, besides the two discussed, covering guns with trap gun butts. Be nice to know the total number of guns ordered. If Folsom was ordering more guns with trap gun butts, I wonder why they were charged for the two rubber dies in the early order. Looking forward to seeing your article.

[George M. Purtill]

Bill
I will be honored if you would look it over for me. I have 3 articles in process now (plus this makes 4) but I will move this to spot number 2 if Brad gives me my gun back. Target date will be July 15.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I would love to have my letter updated to include the "trap designation if it's possible?

[Jeff Kuss]

I finally got both of mine out of the safe. The ten gauge is 46035 and the 12 is 47629.

[George M. Purtill]

I finally got both of mine out of the safe. The ten gauge is 46035 and the 12 is 47629.

Jeff
is there an order number on the barrel flats?

[Jeff Kuss]

George,
There is no order number on either gun.
Jeff

[George M. Purtill]

Jeff
If I am remembering correctly they had stopped stamping order numbers well before 46XXX.

[George M. Purtill]

I have started writing the PP article draft outline and it will have a Parkers Found section. I would like to feature PGCA members guns (and names) in there.
Please contact me with info and pictures by email at george.m.purtill@snet.net

Provide at a minimum:
your name and if you want to be anonymous
serial number
gauge
frame size
grade
order number and whether the order number is on the barrel flats
if the gun has a TRAP BUTT plate
which way the bird on the buttplate is flying- right or left
whether you have a PGCA letter

[Bill Zachow]

Jeff, do you have letters on your guns and do the letters specify "trap gun butt"?

[Dean Romig]

George, as less than half of all PGCA members have Internet access maybe you should place a "Request For Information" of Folsom Trap Guns in a couple of issues of Parker Pages in order to maximize the number of respondants you will get.

[George M. Purtill]

George, as less than half of all PGCA members have Internet access maybe you should place a "Request For Information" of Folsom Trap Guns in a couple of issues of Parker Pages in order to maximize the number of respondants you will get.

Can my editor do that?

[Dean Romig]

Yes, I think he can. Look for it in the Spring Issue - I think he can put something together that emulates a request for information on Folsom Trap Guns belonging to PGCA Members. If you are not pleased with the attempt the editor makes at soliciting such information perhaps you would like to write up something more to your liking for the following issue. :whistle:

[George M. Purtill]

Yes, I think he can. Look for it in the Spring Issue - I think he can put something together that emulates a request for information on Folsom Trap Guns belonging to PGCA Members. If you are not pleased with the attempt the editor makes at soliciting such information perhaps you would like to write up something more to your liking for the following issue. :whistle:

Check your emails old man.

[Dean Romig]

George - Thanks for writing up the ad just the way you want it.

See how efficient that was?

[edgarspencer]

Get a room!

[Dean Romig]

You mean a padded cell like yours??

[edgarspencer]

Yes, I highly recommend it.

[Daryl Corona]

Edgar;
Thanks for making me chuckle. You are sure quick on the draw. The visual of Dean and George in their "room" will haunt me for nights to come.:shock:

[George M. Purtill]

Schmeggar is just having one of those days.
He is also experiencing pre-maple sugaring anxiety wondering if he has enough firewood, taps, time, tubing and scotch to make it through.
We may need to go help him soon. Stand by.

[Jeff Kuss]

Bill,
I have a letter on the 12 ga. It just states that it was sent to Folsom. There is no mention of the trap butt plate.

[edgarspencer]

Schmeggar is just having one of those days. Any combination of phone calls, Texts, or emails exceeding 3, from George, does that to me.
He is also experiencing pre-maple sugaring anxiety Neverwondering if he has enough firewood, 9-10 cords, more still in the woodstaps, 450time, Never enoughtubing 4500 feetand scotch to make it through.Depends who comes by. See below
We may need to go help him soon. Stand by. Oh great, Just Great. See above

[Craig Parker]

Stock markings under trap butt plate. Thought I'd pass them on, tried to use photo edit to read couldn't make much out myself.

Craig