For Sale Forum

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

Mr. Murphy: I took your comment on the sale of this 20 ga. as a slight to Mr. Dean, as he should have done his homework before he priced it for sale, not to Mr. Quellette. Your congradulations was like saying,Hey fat lady that sure is a pretty dress you have on.As stated on the For Sale Forum(please no public forum/posting comments about item unless it is directly to buy the item,or you have a question about the item! If you have a criticism politely contact the seller in private.Thank you for your time and now you may fire away. Thomas

[will evans]

Precisely, Old Geezer. Even now, the transaction has not yet been completed. While true that the gun might arrive in disastrous condition, the other side of the coin is that neither seller nor buyer on this forum is legally bound to a contract. I'm new to the forum and joined the PGCA to have access to the wealth of knowledge AND the classifieds. Guess what? I'M LOOKING FOR A DEAL ON MY FIRST PARKER AND I'M JEALOUS AS HELL I DIDN'T GET THE CHANCE TO TAKE THE RISK MARK HAS TAKEN! So even as a "Newbie" I can see that it would be inappropriate to injure another forum member by insinuating that one party was making a mistake with a transaction. Surely everyone can understand that you would never respond to an offer to purchase with a comment such as, "Why in the World would you want that rust pile of steel and timber?" Imagine how the seller would feel if that buyer reconsidered and backed out because of YOUR inappropriate comment. This point works both ways, for both buyers and sellers.

Carry on, gentlemen. - Will, aka Jawjadawg

[Bill Murphy]

My comment was meant as advice to a person who may have more guns to sell. It was not a slight as you describe it. It was a good piece of advice that I would give to anyone. My congratulations were also sincere. I'm sorry that we are so picky. You and the other two will not get me to admit that my comment was inappropriate. If it were a widow lady offering a CHE 28 gauge for $800, how would you feel about my comment then?

[Ray Masciarella]

I should probably keep my two cents out of this but here goes. The rules on the For Sale forum are arbitrarily enforced depending on who is posting. For example, I was admonished for not posting a price but others have not been when doing so. Now I have no hurt feelings over it. It is just an example.

There was another issue where a member was run off for his political comments. My view was that members should be able to say what they want and leave it at that rather than getting in a debate about free speech. (Dean did make a compelling point as to why political comment should be restricted I admit).

This is the problem when a forum is over regulated. First, someone gets to decide if a rule is broken and then decide whether it should be enforced. I believe it is all done in good faith but still leads to arbitrary enforcement. Second, some members can't wait to complain about something so they all go read the rule book every time they read a post in order to determine whether it is time to complain. If we'd just get rid of all the unessential rules, we'd have less problems. People should be able to say what they want and others should be able to respond or ignore them. I know other forums with less regulation sometimes get out of hand but who here has the right to judge the comments of another? Sometimes it is difficult to judge from a comment whether or not it was intended in good faith. That's the problem with emails, texts, posts, etc- you can't judge someones demeanor.

Now these comments have nothing to do with Bill or Old Geezer. Of course, I do not know them personally but I have always enjoyed there post and both don't seem to be anything
other than gentlemen. I have no problem with Old Geezer pointing out a comment he thinks breaks the rules and I have no problem with Bill's comments or his response. We are all better off suffering the inconvenience of too much comment than too little, IMHO. For example, what if someone posted a gun for sale and another member had personal knowledge that the post contained false or misleading info? Should that member remain silent and let another member get hoodwinked all because of our rules? Should knowledgeable members not help with their good faith advice uninformed folks like me rules the advice could be construed as a disparagement? If so, what is the point of a
forum?

If we're going to have rules, I say enforce them strictly every time (and I'm not taking the position any rule was broken in that post). But I think we'd be better off letting people say
what they want and take it for what it's worth. We could spend more time talking about guns, ie our purpose, rather than talking about rule breaking.

I'm sure someone here completely disagrees with my comments but I welcome theirs.

[Ray Masciarella]

I should probably keep my two cents out of this but here goes. The rules on the For Sale forum are arbitrarily enforced depending on who is posting. For example, I was admonished for not posting a price but others have not been when doing so. Now I have no hurt feelings over it. It is just an example.

There was another issue where a member was run off for his political comments. My view was that members should be able to say what they want and leave it at that rather than getting in a debate about free speech. (Dean did make a compelling point as to why political comment should be restricted I admit).

This is the problem when a forum is over regulated. First, someone gets to decide if a rule is broken and then decide whether it should be enforced. I believe it is all done in good faith but still leads to arbitrary enforcement. Second, some members can't wait to complain about something so they all go read the rule book every time they read a post in order to determine whether it is time to complain. If we'd just get rid of all the unessential rules, we'd have less problems. People should be able to say what they want and others should be able to respond or ignore them. I know other forums with less regulation sometimes get out of hand but who here has the right to judge the comments of another? Sometimes it is difficult to judge from a comment whether or not it was intended in good faith. That's the problem with emails, texts, posts, etc- you can't judge someones demeanor.

Now these comments have nothing to do with Bill or Old Geezer. Of course, I do not know them personally but I have always enjoyed there post and both don't seem to be anything
other than gentlemen. I have no problem with Old Geezer pointing out a comment he thinks breaks the rules and I have no problem with Bill's comments or his response. We are all better off suffering the inconvenience of too much comment than too little, IMHO. For example, what if someone posted a gun for sale and another member had personal knowledge that the post contained false or misleading info? Should that member remain silent and let another member get hoodwinked all because of our rules? Should knowledgeable members not help with their good faith advice uninformed folks like me rules the advice could be construed as a disparagement? If so, what is the point of a
forum?

If we're going to have rules, I say enforce them strictly every time (and I'm not taking the position any rule was broken in that post). But I think we'd be better off letting people say
what they want and take it for what it's worth. We could spend more time talking about guns, ie our purpose, rather than talking about rule breaking.

I'm sure someone here completely disagrees with my comments but I welcome theirs.

[betelgeuse]

I have a complaint. It has nothing to do with the subject matter in this thread but....I can't even get on the For Sale Forum. All I get is this;

betelgeuse, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
Greg

[Mark Ouellette]

One has to be a PGCA member to access and use the For Sale forum. Access to this forum is worth the cost of membership for Members often list Parkers, other vintage shotguns, and accessories there first. Transactions are usually smooth although some tend to generate a lot discussion :whistle:

I have sold at least one Parker on the For Sale forum and bought three or was it four?

When one adds to the Members Only Forums the quarterly printed "glossy" Parker Pages with articles by members including me, the $40 sent on membership will seem a small amount indeed!

Mark

[Bruce Day]

Betelgeuse, you are using the name of a navigation star, never heard of a real person named Betelgeuse. The sign up form says use your real name. If Betelgeuse is your real name, I apologize.

Ray, there are enough gun sites that are populated by crackpots who drive away legitimate collectors of high end guns. We don't need crackpots here who espouse every nutty idea that comes to mind. I'm not saying those people who can no longer post here are crackpots, but I am saying that this site paid for by the PGCA has rules that must be followed to keep the posts within some order. The PGCA tries to be a high end organization and most of us want to keep it that way.

[betelgeuse]

Betelgeuse, you are using the name of a navigation star, never heard of a real person named Betelgeuse. The sign up form says use your real name. If Betelgeuse is your real name, I apologize.

Ray, there are enough gun sites that are populated by crackpots who drive away legitimate collectors of high end guns. We don't need crackpots here who espouse every nutty idea that comes to mind. The PGCA tries to be a high end organization and most of us want to keep it that way.

This is only my 11 post and I'm getting h*ll already :rotf: This IS a tough forum :shock:
No. Betelgeuse is not my real name. If I can figure out how to change it, I will.
As far as the "for sale" section goes.....I would think when one is trying to sell something, he/she would want the add available to as many people possible....ie forum members.
Greg

[Bruce Day]

You did change it Greg. Thanks, its always nice to know who you are dealing with and we have found people, well most at least, tend to be on their better behavior when they can't hide behind a fake name. You only have to look at some of the other gun sites with anonymous posters to see abnormal psychology on display.

Harry Truman, when asked by a reporter why he was always giving people hell, replied, " I don't give them hell. I just tell them the truth and they think its hell."

[will evans]

My comment was meant as advice to a person who may have more guns to sell. It was not a slight as you describe it. It was a good piece of advice that I would give to anyone. My congratulations were also sincere. I'm sorry that we are so picky. You and the other two will not get me to admit that my comment was inappropriate. If it were a widow lady offering a CHE 28 gauge for $800, how would you feel about my comment then?

Hubris (pron.: /ˈhjuːbrɪs/), also hybris, from ancient Greek ὕβρις, means extreme pride or arrogance. Hubris often indicates a loss of contact with reality and an overestimation of one's own competence or capabilities, especially when the person exhibiting it is in a position of power.

Perhaps the government should determine the asking price of all used firearms. That might keep all of you greedy Parker collectors from accumulating all of the wealth of Parker shotguns while the rest of us are stuck shooting the scratched up Mossberg 500's our drunken uncles purchased from Kmart in the 1980's. I will admit I find it comforting to know that someone is here to assist and approve of the private party transactions on this page. It's almost like having our own little member of the Obama Adminstration to explain the difference between right, wrong, need, and greed.

The bottom line is that you know NOTHING of the gun in question. It was a simple listing with no details regarding condition. Yet you are somehow qualified to determine that the asking price was chosen by the seller via the dart board method? Interesting.

Mr. Ouellette accepted the offer and has assumed a degree of risk. Your comments, if anything, have created a cause for pause. The seller is either very ethical, or read your comments and still feels he is obtaining a fair price for the item. Whom have you really helped? Given the fact that there are hundreds of forums where firearms may be listed for free, don't you think that an individual who has 1) found the PGCA website, and 2) understood the value of paying $40 for the benefit of posting to this one particular forum has clearly already done a little bit of homework? Might there be a little compensation for the seller in knowing that their family heirloom is going to someone who will value the firearm in the same manner as the previous owner?

How many resources are available on the internet for someone to ascertain a reasonable estimate as to the value of their gun? There's quite a few, so for someone to land HERE and purchase a membership without also experiencing one or more of those other resources would seem unlikely. Your ability to determine who does and does not need help on this forum is what I call hubris. They probably didn't get here by opening the phone book.

The sign up form says use your real name.

That's not entirely accurate. Try to create an account with a fictional name like Beetleguese.

[betelgeuse]

[QUOTE=Bruce Day;91669) Harry Truman, when asked by a reporter why he was always giving people hell, replied, " I don't give them hell. I just tell them the truth and they think its hell."[/QUOTE]

:rotf: I really didn't think you were giving me hell. I thought I was giving you guys hell because I (and the other forum members) can't get on the FS section. lol
Greg

[Bruce Day]

Greg, posting and access to the sale section has long been for PGCA members only....its a BOD decision. I agree with it for a lot of reasons. Go to a meeting up where you are and discuss the matter with PGCA people, there are many where you are.

Will, here's what the registration click on says "You MUST register with your REAL FIRST AND LAST NAME ( i.e.- "John Doe" ) to participate on this forum."
It is true that a person can still enter a fake name after certifying he has read the instruction, and the computer would never know, but we would. So far the human brain is still superior. People here will eventually call a poster on it or the web supervisor will step in but no one likes to be policeman.

Best,
Bruce

[Mills Morrison]

I for one fully support the rules on this forum, but I understand and respect those who do not. For those who do not, there are plenty of other forums with fewer rules, such as the Double Gun Shop

[charlie cleveland]

im ready to talk parkers.... charlie

[Mills Morrison]

Here, here. I am ready to shoot Parkers too. Heading to our gun club in just a few

[Bruce Day]

Why I am here.

[allen newell]

BD
The wood on that gun is just beautiful! And I see you got your limit as well.

[chris dawe]

Bruce, is that a Munsterlander in the third photo?

[Bruce Day]

Llewellin setter.

[Bill Murphy]

I can't believe you guys can run a pheasant hunt without a Wirehair. Let me know a month ahead of time and I will send Eva out to hunt with you.

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

I will try to end this thread that I started by first off apologizing to Mr. Ouellette for misspelling his name and say this was just a discussion and I don't talk politics or religion and don't feel this is the place for that.You can go to Doublegunshop forum where they call each other names,question your sexuality and just about anything goes.I only belong to this particular forum for its knowledge and the great people on here which I may never meet but will try to be civil in my comments.I come from the time when people went outside and settled their differences and came back inside and had a beer. Mr. Murphy would you like a beer? Thomas

[Bruce Day]

I can't believe you guys can run a pheasant hunt without a Wirehair. Let me know a month ahead of time and I will send Eva out to hunt with you.


post photos of Eva first:)

[chris dawe]

My bad Bruce, nice looking pup all the same.

[will evans]

Will, here's what the registration click on says "You MUST register with your REAL FIRST AND LAST NAME ( i.e.- "John Doe" ) to participate on this forum."
It is true that a person can still enter a fake name after certifying he has read the instruction, and the computer would never know, but we would.

Yes, but the rules of registration also clearly state that everyone is allowed to sign in to the forum with any moniker they so choose, as others are already doing and obviously have been doing for quite some time. Beetleguese was told he was supposed to ONLY use his name on the forum. Not true. There's no need for anyone to call someone out for using a handle they probably use on a dozen other internet forums. After 15 years it becomes habit. If it matters to anyone, I prefer to use a moniker on internet forums for security reasons.

One interesting thing is that the registration gatekeeper here actually IS a real person, not a computer that doesn't know the difference between a real person and John Doe. I think that obviously helps to keep this forum cleaner than many others.

Good shooting - Will