Frame Sizes....

[Mark Landskov]

....and rarity. There are, quite often, no factory records to indicate what size frame a particular gun was built on. Would I be correct if I assumed that my 6 frame NH is somewhat uncommon? I guess we will never really know without some sort of database, which, of course, would revolve around participation. I bet there are many Parker owners that do not belong to the PGCA and/or frequent this forum. Also, many owners would have a certain reluctance to giving out gun information, with or without serial numbers (complete or partial XXX). Rambling thoughts.....Cheers!

[Bill Murphy]

There are factory records that record frame sizes. The later stock books have a column for frame size. I don't know when this started, but it is probably beyond the #6 frame era. The Puglisi #6 frame 12 gauge is the first gun I saw other than an eight gauge that was made on the #6 frame. My ten gauge #6 frame Vulcan Steel gun was not made as a ten gauge. It was made as an eight gauge and sent back to Parker Brothers to be rebarrelled in ten gauge. I never saw a letter on the Puglisi gun.

[Russ Jackson]

Very Nice piece of Information Bill for those of us which haven't seen the Stock Books ! Thank You ! Russ

[Eldon Goddard]

6 frame 12 gauge.:shock: It would be a fun project to get together frame sizes by gauge and grade. Probably be a looooong project.

[Chuck Bishop]

I gotta believe I've mentioned frame sizes and the stock books multiple times on this forum but I'll say it again!

Only the later Stock Books contain information on frame sizes. Parker changed the style of the books starting at S/N 213778 and ending with the last Stock Book at S/N 238934. I have not seen any reference to frame sizes in any Stock book prior to 213778 and never have seen references to frame sizes in the Order Books.

Dean Romig and I are working on a PP technical article showing the evolution of the Stock Books. Perhaps in the Summer or Fall issue of PP's.

[Mark Landskov]

I now recall your past posting, so I amended my original post to reflect that :whistle:

[Bill Murphy]

There are a few references to frame size in the order books. One example is my #3 frame 16 gauge which specifies in the order to "use 2 1/2 frame" which is the #3 frame. Chuck may want to post a scan of that order which not only specified the frame size, but also specified a "#1 stock" another very rare request on an order.

[Bill Murphy]

Chuck, I guess I should mention the serial number of the gun in question whose order we would like to look at. It is #136,923 and I have already paid for a letter, so you may feel comfortable posting the order scan. Murphy

[David Noble]

I have mentioned before, and I'm sure raised a few eye browses in doing so, but in the mid to late eighties I had a damascus 8ga CH gun with 36 inch barrels come into my gun store. This was the most massive Parker I had ever seen and though I didn't actually weigh it, it honestly felt like a twenty pound gun. The stock was just as massive overall however I do not recall it being excessively long but my fingers would not wrap fully around the thick grip area. Here is the part that draws skepticism when I relate the story. On the barrel lug, where the frame size was stamped on these guns, was a very defined number 8 stamped. At the time I assumed it was referring to the gauge, which I knew to be an 8 ga. Reflecting back, and to my knowledge the gauge was not stamped on these early hammerless guns and there were no other numbers on the lug. Unfortunately I did not record the serial number of the gun. It was not in my possession long as the gun was stolen and I knew it was being brought in and had called the police ahead of time. It turned out to have been stolen from a Judge who lived outside of the Dallas Ft. Worth area. Be skeptical if you must, but I know what I saw.

[Bill Zachow]

Dave, I believe I have seen references to a number 8 frame size in historical Parker records, but I cannot remember where. I do know that you are the only person who has actually seen one. I would expect that they are rarer than the proverbial "hens' teeth". I have seen and handled over 100 Parker 8 gauges and never an 8 frame did I see. You are a lucky man.

[Bill Murphy]

Bill and David, the reference you saw to the possible existence of a #8 frame was in The Parker Story. This reference turned out to be incorrect. Some years ago, I mentioned on the forum that I had examined and measured an eight gauge top action gun with the "8" on the lug. The gun actually was a #7 frame gun made after the advent of gauge marking on the lug. It is a D grade with 36" Titanic steel barrels. That would also be the case with the gun that David examined, except that gun would be a #6 frame since it is a hammerless. The authors were aware of my finding, but I'm not sure it got into the printed errata listing for TPS. The D grade top action gun is owned by a local PGCA member.

[David Noble]

Bill, you are probably right. I won't dispute that. That was the first time that I had ever seen an 8 stamped on a barrel lug, and it was the only number stamped there. If I ever run across an 8 gauge gun with a number 6 frame and 36 inch barrels, I'll pick it up and see if it matches what I remember so many years ago. Anyway, I would have traded my whole Parker collection at that time for that gun. It was unmolested and and in beautiful condition. I never got to meet the owner, and he never contacted me to say thanks for recovering his gun.

[Mark Landskov]

A collector named Bill Furnish was said to have actually seen an 8 frame Parker. I believe I read this in the Double Gun Journal.

[greg conomos]

It's also possible that they did stamp an '8' for 8 ga rather than frame size. It would have obviously been a very unusual gun to come down the line and could well have received unusual stampings. It also could have been a '6' that looked like an '8'.

[Bill Murphy]

My friend's D grade top action is stamped with a definite "8". It is hard to make a 7 look like an 8. Let's see if we can find the Bill Furnish article.

[Mark Landskov]

Austin Hogan wrote an article for the Spring 2008 DGJ. On page 60, he stated, "....Bill Furnish reported examining two (8 frame Parkers), in his correspondence with the authors of The Parker Story." That's all there was.

[Bill Murphy]

In the early days of Parker research, many collectors did not carry a ruler, much less a micrometer or vernier caliper. Bill Furnish may have been one of those collectors. Show me someone who has reportedly seen a #8 frame Parker, and I'll show you someone who did not measure the pin separation. My friend's gun marked 8 mentioned in the earlier post is a #7 frame gun.