New Member with Trojan questions

[betelgeuse]

Hi guys. I have a Parker Trojan. Number 170488.
I don't think it's original. The case has been blued/re blued. The barrels are
28" and seem to be original. There is some minor pitting in the bores. The wood is in excellent shape. Just wondering what your thoughts were, when it was made, and what it might be worth. I paid $550 for it.
http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k582/beteljaws/Parker%20Brothers%20Trojan%20170488/IMG_0205_zpsde54d2e1.jpg
Link to Pictures;
http://s1117.beta.photobucket.com/user/beteljaws/library/Parker%20Brothers%20Trojan%20170488
Thanks,
Greg

[Bill Zachow]

As long as whomever did the bluing work did not hot blue the barrels, then the gun is worth about what you paid for it. If the barrels were hot blued, then all bets are off as the barrels could be severly damaged.

[betelgeuse]

As long as whomever did the bluing work did not hot blue the barrels, then the gun is worth about what you paid for it. If the barrels were hot blued, then all bets are off as the barrels could be severly damaged.
Thanks for the response Bill. The barrels were not re-blued. They are in pretty good shape. I was hoping it was worth more than I paid. lol.
Anyone know the date of this gun? The seller told me 1915.
Thanks in advance,
Greg

[Eldon Goddard]

Yes it was made in 1915. How do you know the barrels were not reblued as the gun is nearly 100 years old?

[betelgeuse]

Yes it was made in 1915. How do you know the barrels were not reblued as the gun is nearly 100 years old?

I guess I can't say 100% but the bluing on the barrels looks thin and is worn thru a bit at the sides of the muzzle. The bluing on the case looks new.
What I can't understand is why would someone blue the case? It isn't supposed to be blued is it? I mean....with the barrels and wood in such good shape. Why would they blue the case? Did Parker make any Trojans with blued cases?
Thanks,
Greg

[Brian Dudley]

The buttstock on your gun looks to have been replaced as well, as the form is not correct. Being the gun is a shooter, you paid about what it is worth.

The frame is not supposed to be blued, you are correct. If the Frame finish was worn and had some rust issues, the easiest way for many to "fix" this years ago would be to blue it. The bluing can be chemically removed, which will leave a dull gray finish.

[Eldon Goddard]

As far as I know Parker never made any blued cases. If I would have to guess I would say that reblueing would be cheaper to do then re case coloring. Other members on this forum know alot more than I however. The gun is a great find. I would buy it for 550.

[Brian Dudley]

Parker made one blued frame that I know of. Stay tuned to the Parker pages for more on this gun. And Remington made some Trojan skeet gun protoyypes that were blued. But... No regular production Parker's were offered this way.

[Jerry Harlow]

You could improve the gun a lot both from the appearance and handling by having Brian Dudley checker the forearm and stock in the correct pattern. From what I can see both appear uncheckered.

[betelgeuse]

You could improve the gun a lot both from the appearance and handling by having Brian Dudley checker the forearm and stock in the correct pattern. From what I can see both appear uncheckered.

You are correct there is no checkering on the stock or forearm....so I guess the wood has been replaced. I liked the gun and bought it on instinct. I figured for $550 I couldn't get hurt too bad. I really like this gun so I'm going to keep it and leave it "as is".
I would like to buy a higher grade Parker but I have a lot to learn. On the other hand I am an impulse buyer. I'm going to a gun show on the 12th. God help me :rotf:
Thanks guys for all your help.
Greg
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!

[Larry Frey]

Greg,
Being an ''impulse buyer" can be a bad thing with old SxS's unless you are somewhat educated as to what to look for. If I were you I would do a lot of reading on this website and other sources before getting too involved. It's always easier to buy a bad gun than it is to sell one.

[Andy Kelley]

Greg you got a great shooter and you learned a great deal from the experience. I think you should also invest in some Parker books and when you go to the gun show get permission from the vendors to pick up their guns. Try to make the show a learning experience and not just a place to spend money. In the end you will eventually buy smarter but also have a better understanding of what you want. Best of luck! Andy

[Brian Dudley]

Just a note a out the buttstock. How is the fit of the metal to the wood? I mentioned that the form or shape was not correct on it. This is a dead giveaway that it is not original. It looks a bit fat if anything. And that buttstock could most likely be shaped down to a correct profile in the wrist and comb areas. Add some checkering and it would not be as obvious that the stock is not original. And, doing this may actually boost value.

[todd allen]

Unless you paid thousands of dollars, it don't matter what the group think is.
That's a lot of gun for 550 bucks! You need to find out what your bird dog, and the quail think of it.

[betelgeuse]

I always wondered if a re-worked gun like mine would be worth more, the same or less than a original beat to hell 10% gun (same make, year, grade)?
Here are some pictures of the wood to metal fit.
http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k582/beteljaws/Parker%20Brothers%20Trojan%20170488/IMG_0216_zps644eebd9.jpg
http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k582/beteljaws/Parker%20Brothers%20Trojan%20170488/IMG_0213_zps9fb659be.jpg
http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k582/beteljaws/Parker%20Brothers%20Trojan%20170488/IMG_0211_zpsb5e12793.jpg
http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k582/beteljaws/Parker%20Brothers%20Trojan%20170488/IMG_0219_zps0706b211.jpg
Greg

[Dennis V. Nix]

Greg, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Value is what you put on the gun not somebody else. I like your gun a lot and think it has a lot of value as a shooter. Having said that I would not have bought it as I prefer guns that are original or mostly so. A recoil pad installed would not deter me but having the stock lengthened with matching wood would put me off entirely. My neighbor would jump at the chance to have your gun because he is from an old ranching family who puts value on usability rather than originality. It all depends on what you, the buyer, are looking for. It matters not what the rest of us think.

[betelgeuse]

Greg, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Value is what you put on the gun not somebody else. I like your gun a lot and think it has a lot of value as a shooter. Having said that I would not have bought it as I prefer guns that are original or mostly so. A recoil pad installed would not deter me but having the stock lengthened with matching wood would put me off entirely. My neighbor would jump at the chance to have your gun because he is from an old ranching family who puts value on usability rather than originality. It all depends on what you, the buyer, are looking for. It matters not what the rest of us think.

I understand what you are saying. The gun is worth all of what I paid for it ....to me. I'm wondering if more people would be inclined to spend $550 on a gun like mine (as a shooter) or a beat up 10% original Trojan. After all....most people (that I know) that like guns don't have $10k+ to spend on a perfect gun that will just sit in the safe.
Now that I know that you wouldn't but a gun like mine and some here would.....would you spend $550 on a beat up 10% Trojan? I would like others to wiegh in on this also please. I'm just trying to get a feel for what I should be looking for at the next show.
Any comments on the wood to metal fit. It looks pretty good to me. Any information good or bad will help me a lot.
Thanks in advance,
Greg

[Dennis V. Nix]

Greg, no I would not spend the $550.00 on a 10% Trojan. Personally I would rather save my money to perhaps twice that and buy one of the many guns that are offered here on the Parker Forums to members. I look at my guns as long lasting treasures and when I add up the money per day over let's say a 10 or 20 year time period it is pretty cheap. Since you asked if it were me I would happily use the Trojan for a couple of seasons (depending on your finances) and then trade/sell it to buy something better, maybe an 85% Trojan. I hope that makes sense but again that is MY way of thinking.

Dennis

[charlie cleveland]

greg i think you bought a bargain in that gun...nice looking gun too the eye and should be a good one in the field...me i d rather have a gun like yours instead of the 10 percent gun at same price... charlie

[Jerry Harlow]

Just a note a out the buttstock. How is the fit of the metal to the wood? I mentioned that the form or shape was not correct on it. This is a dead giveaway that it is not original. It looks a bit fat if anything. And that buttstock could most likely be shaped down to a correct profile in the wrist and comb areas. Add some checkering and it would not be as obvious that the stock is not original. And, doing this may actually boost value.

Greg,

Certainly your gun is worth every penny you paid for it. Someone looking for just barrels (if they are good) would pay that much for it. The replacement wood fit looks good from what I can see. All I was suggesting was confirmed by Brian, the addition of checkering in my opinion would add more to the value of the gun than the checkering costs in most cases. I don't know what Brian charges, but this is based upon what I have paid to others.

I too like to rescue these homeless Parkers, and rework them to my satisfaction. Then using them after this gives me as much enjoyment as buying one that is completely original and needs no work. Checkering and indexing screws will give a somewhat original appearance, and the blued receiver will wear longer than case colors and for a field gun, there is no problem with that.

But if you don't put a dime into it, you can always recover your money after enjoying it.

[betelgeuse]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the comments. I've learned a lot by buying this gun and having you critique it.
I have a book in front of me. It's the 2013 Standard Catalog of Firearms. It has the values on the Trojan as; Excellent $3800, Very Good $3000, Good $2000, Fair $1000 and Poor $600. Do these prices seem high? I own some Colt revolvers and the prices in this book are low (I think) for them. How do they come up with these figures?
With all the interest in the so called "assault weapons" lately, maybe I can find one of the dealers at the show asleep at the wheel or takes one (a Parker or other high end SxS) in trade and doesn't know what he has :)
Thanks again,
Greg

[Brian Dudley]

Those prices are pretty much the same as my 2011 book says too. I say that seeing what the market is doing right now, that those values are on the higher end. Or at least many people won't always pay those prices right now.
A poor condition Trojan can usually be had for less than 600. But it may not be shoot able.
Also, those are collector prices based on percent of original finish. To some, the fact that a gun is a good shooter that can be worked means differently.

[betelgeuse]

Those prices are pretty much the same as my 2011 book says too. I say that seeing what the market is doing right now, that those values are on the higher end. Or at least many people won't always pay those prices right now.
A poor condition Trojan can usually be had for less than 600. But it may not be shoot able.
Also, those are collector prices based on percent of original finish. To some, the fact that a gun is a good shooter that can be worked means differently.
Thanks Brian.
Just wondering. What is the condition percentage cut-off point of a Parker (or any other 100 year old gun) becoming a collector piece or just a shooter? I mean, Parkers aren't a dime a dozen. I would think the condition percentage would be lower for the Parker than some mass produced newer gun. Especially if you want an all original gun.
Sorry for all the questions. I'm just trying to get as much information as I can before I go to the show.
Greg

[Bill Zachow]

I have collected Colts, Winchesters, and other fine doubles over the years. True collector demand for all of them is primarily predicated on CONDITION; and that condition quotient is the same for all of them. That is, original condition first followed by degree of original finish. With all of these guns, the price or value tends to go up in similar fashion. Just because a gun is a Parker does not mean it has any more value. In fact, because of a relatively small original production level and a resulting small collector base, Parkers actually tend to sell at lower levels than Colts or Winchesters. I have seen innumerable plain Winchester 1873s sell for double the price of a Trojan Parker in comparable condition. Considering that Winchester made over a million 73s versus the Trojans limited production gives you a feel for the level of demand. Winchester was still making the 73s while Parker was producing the Trojan, and the 73s sold for a lot less. Hope I haven't rambled on too long.

[betelgeuse]

I have collected Colts, Winchesters, and other fine doubles over the years. True collector demand for all of them is primarily predicated on CONDITION; and that condition quotient is the same for all of them. That is, original condition first followed by degree of original finish. With all of these guns, the price or value tends to go up in similar fashion. Just because a gun is a Parker does not mean it has any more value. In fact, because of a relatively small original production level and a resulting small collector base, Parkers actually tend to sell at lower levels than Colts or Winchesters. I have seen innumerable plain Winchester 1873s sell for double the price of a Trojan Parker in comparable condition. Considering that Winchester made over a million 73s versus the Trojans limited production gives you a feel for the level of demand. Winchester was still making the 73s while Parker was producing the Trojan, and the 73s sold for a lot less. Hope I haven't rambled on too long.
Thanks Bill. You are not rambling at all. The show is a week away. I need all the info I can get.
I understand that original condition is the most important thing. The problem I'm going to have is figuring out what is original? I never thought someone would be dishonest enough to take a junked out gun and fix it up and sell it for original. If I didn't post my Trojan on this forum I never would have known.
I too own Colts handguns and a couple Winchester shotguns. After I posted my Trojan here and found out what was wrong with it, I started looking at my other guns more closely. I found my 1899 Colt New Police has been renickled. Luckily it's worth a little more then I paid for it according to the guys on the Colt forum. I got lucky....again:)
Anyway, If I find a higher dollar gun that I like at the show I'm going to take pictures (if they let me) and post it on the appropriate forum before I buy.
Thanks,
Greg