Prussian Sauer

[Ed Blake]

At Thanksgiving we were visiting my wife's family, and I stopped in a little local gunshop that specializes in C&R military arms such as old Mausers, Enfields, funky French guns, etc. Hanging on the wall was a pristine JP Sauer SxS in 12 gauge. It looked a bit out of place. I had nothing to trade at the time and no cash either, so I left it. We visited again this past week and I took a few old military rifles that I had not shot in years and were largely collecting dust. I wondered if it was still there, and lo and behold it was. I worked a trade and am quite pleased. I bet the gun has not had a flat of shells run through it. From what I can tell because of the "Made in Prussia" stamp on the watertable, it is a pre-WW1 gun. It has 30" barrels with 30 points of choke in each, but the bore size is .715! It also has 2 3/4" chambers and is marked "70" on the extractor face. I assume that is 70mm. There is a simple engraved border with about the same amount of overall engraving as a "G" grade Parker. The barrels have two underbites and a cross bolt. It makes a Parker action look a bit wobbly in comparison. First round of 5-stand at the local club I shot a 22/25, so it fits, at least that time it fit. Anyway, if anyone has any knowledge of these guns I'd love to hear from you.

[Rick Losey]

a better picture of the proof marks may help. but it does look to be in great shape.

the Greener style crossbolt was common on the Sauers, they liked them really locked up

the screw in the upper part of the box indicates intercepting sears

you also might try the German gun collector's website

http://www.germanguns.com/

[Dean Romig]

A handsome gun Ed.

[KCordell]

Very nice find! congratulations...

[Daryl Corona]

Good trade Ed, you just never know what you will find in those out of the way gunshops and pawnshops. Lovely gun.

[Dennis V. Nix]

That is a beautiful gun. I love the colors. Congratulations.

Dennis

[ed good]

based on the serial number and lack of date code stamp it is definitely a pre ww1 sauer...wonderful gun.

how much does it weigh?

[Ed Blake]

Thank you all for your kind remarks.

Ed, I'm not sure of the weight becauSe I don't have a good scale, but I would estimate it weighs between 7.5 and 8 pounds. Someone must have ordered it as a duck gun. The bore diameter of .715 really puzzles me though. The owner wanted a good seal for fibre wads, I guess.

[charlie cleveland]

sure enough nice gun...you dont see many guns that are pre world war one that is better than this gun... i agree gun was not shot much and was well taken care of by someone...boy what a turkey gun this would make.... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Outstanding gun in high condition and rare English grip stock. Your gun was made in 1907, maybe 1908. The authority on Sauer shotguns is Jeff Stephens. His articles in DGJ 15-3 and 15-4 are very interesting. In my opinion, that era is very good in Sauer history. My 10 gauge grouse gun is from that era, and is my favorite Sauer.

[ed good]

well, here is another one made around 1906...12 gauge gun with 26" barrels, weighing just six pounds!

[Larry Frey]

The bore diameter of .715 really puzzles me though. The owner wanted a good seal for fibre wads, I guess.

Ed,
The condition of your new gun is outstanding. I have a chart that shows minimum and maximum bore diameters of all gauges from various countries. The German 12 gauge standard bore for 1939 was .716-.732. As your gun is on the tighter side I would be curious if the felt recoil would be greater with the tight bores versus a gun of similar weight and larger bores shooting the same shells. English guns ranged from.710-.750 in 1954 according to this chart.

[Ed Blake]

Larry - I shoot 7/8 oz. at about 6,500 psi in everything, and I did not notice any increase in the felt recoil. That may change with 3dram trap loads. the 2 3/4" chambers may make the difference, however.

Ed - Do you know the bores and chokes on your gun?

[Daryl Corona]

Tight bores and sharp forcing cones definitely increase actual recoil. Felt recoil is a different issue. Most if not all European shotgun bores from that period up until just recently were always on the tight side. The Germans and the Italians were noted for tight bores. Kreighof was the first manufacturer to break tradition with their .740 bores. Back in the early 80's on the old PA. pigeon shooting circuit the old timers would say that a Kreighof would'nt kill a pigeon because of the overboring. They were wrong. Old traditions die hard. Relieving the forcing cones and overboring improve patterns and felt recoil.

[ed good]

i too shoot 7/8 ounce loads. rst to be exact.

gun is not choked. bores are .715 as well. interestingly minimum barrel wall thicknesses are .050. cant figure out how they could have made the gun so light and still have relatively stout barrels?

[ed good]

double: i would think scottish made guns would also have under sized bores...as in tight wads?

[Dean Romig]

That's a "good" one Ed. :rotf:

[Daryl Corona]

Oh I got it. Thanks Dean, it was a "Good" one Ed. BTW... What happened to the leaf in your photo? Did'nt recognize the gun without it.:)

[Bill Murphy]

Light guns with thick barrels are quite the mystery. My ten gauge Sauer grouse gun weighs 6 pounds, 4 ounces, and has barrel walls in the high thirties as I recall.

[Richard Flanders]

Ed: I have a Linder Daly of very similar design but with side clips. It appears hardly every used to me. Very nice articulated triggers. You will find this one an excellent gun that will last generations. They are very nicely put together. Safari Outfitters often has these.

Trigg once bought a 26" 12ga European gun with very stout and heavy bbls. It was too front heavy. We both shot it at birds and he took it back and returned it. Might have been a Wesley Richards. It felt like swinging a fence post.

[Bill Murphy]

My ten gauge Sauer, at 6 1/4 pounds, is not heavy on either end.

[Mills Morrison]

My Dad bought a 16 gauge Sauer from an older friend who served in Europe during WW II, saw the Sauer leaning in a doorway while marching through a German town and snagged it.

[charlie cleveland]

them boys new how to build great guns...bill i believe your 10 ga is the lightest one ive ever heard of..that should be one fine bird gun... charlie

[John Dallas]

Can't imagine the recoil on Bill's gun with a full patch load

[charlie cleveland]

talk about kill en at both ends.... charlie