A question of pressure and length

[Matt Valinsky]

The length first. I seem to be getting the idea that it is accecptable to use 2-3/4" shells in guns chambered for shorter shells. The shotguns in question a 16 and 12g. Trojan. Your thoughts on this.

Next, What would be considered a safe working pressure for those two guns?

I'm going to start reloading for both the 16 and 12 soon and want to start off on the right foot.

If I can use 2-3/4" hulls I can buy once fired, if I have or should use 2-1/2" hulls, so far I haven't found any once fired.

That leads to chamber pressure, knowing where I need to be will help figure out what I need for components.

I just spent about an hour looking through the Alliant powder reloaders guide. Alot of loads for the 12 but only about half dozen for the 16 and I really like 16g.

Thanks for your help in getting the new guy started.

Matt

[George M. Purtill]

I will lets others address the first questions but the hull problem for 2.5 inch hulls is easy. take your boxcutter/razor knife and remove the last 1/4 inch off those 2.75 inch hulls.

[John Campbell]

Matt:
The issue of pressure is relative. If a skivved 2 3/4-inch hull is used in a gun with a more or less normal forcing cone, the added pressure is minimal. Sherman Bell tested this whole issue long ago with professional help and equipment. His results are in DGJ. He found that the added pressure for the longer hulls amounted to about 25 psi., which is negligible.
With heavy unskivved hulls like Federal, it might be a bit higher.
You can cut back hull mouths if it makes you feel better. But I've used 2 3/4 Win AA hulls in my 12s and Rem black hulls in my 16s for years and have noticed absolutely no cause for concern. I keep velocity around 1150 fps.

Best, Kensal

[King Brown]

Same with Kensal here.

[Paul Harm]

Your Trojan would handle any shell but because the gun is 100 years old most guys like to load to lower pressures than modern shells. New shells put an unnecessary strain on the stock - it doesn't need 9 to 11,000psi to work a semi-auto action. In any gauge, say 16 for example, take the data for 1 1/8oz loads and load 1oz - the pressure will drop. To get a good crimp you may have to add a navy bean or cheerio. There's two or three guys at my club who shoot 16ga and all load less than the 1oz load. I noticed on the Allaint web site they only list 1 1/8oz loads. Accurate and IMR both list 1oz loads. You may want to look around a bit more. Accurates Solo 1250 will work in both 12 and 16ga at lower pressures. Clay Buster wads makes a 1oz wad for 16ga - no bean needed. Or use a 1/4" filler wad in it [ or bean ] and load 7/8oz - a really nice load for pressure and recoil. I used the Solo 1250 for years and really liked it. A Mec press with an adjustable bar is nice - no bushings to buy and you can fine tune it to any load you want. If your gonna shoot every week then a 650, if not then a 600jr would be fine . And if you're starting out for the first time , then the 600jr would be the way to go. Good luck.

[George M. Purtill]

Thanks Paul
I think I'm going to be raiding the pantry tonight.
BTW- can you see the bean when you shoot?

[Paul Harm]

Matt, if you're not too far down in Ohio, come to our winter shoot in Michigan. We're off the I-69 x-way, exit 159, half way between Flint and Port Huron. In the summer SxS Shoots we get quite a few of guys from Ohio. My brother just moved back from Alaska and I'm setting him up to load 16ga.

[Paul Harm]

George - if you use a pop corn kernel you could get accused of shooting over bait.

[John Campbell]

In order to keep a rein on breakfast cereal/snack food consumption, it might be worth checking out the 16-bore 7/8 oz. plastic wads offered by Downrange. Their web site also has loads listed for the wad. This is the one I use.

Best, Kensal

[Paul Harm]

Thanks, didn't know they listed one.

[Matt Valinsky]

Well, this month certainly has been a month to remember. Made a purchase on a long awaited Parker, actually two, both Trojan grade guns. I'm tickled pink to say the least.

On top of that, Santa found my chimney and dropped off a MEC sizemaster in 12ga. What else could a guy ask for? Well, maybe one in 16ga. would be nice also. But, hey, I'm not gonna push it.

I want to thank everyone for the info. I can see it's gonna take a little a bit to digest all this. I do know i have an outlet for about 200 12ga. AA shells once fired from a friend who used to reload, he might have some 16ga., but he's not sure.

I think this is gonna be fun.

Paul, I'm about 30 miles S.E. of Columbus. I don't think anything this winter is going to happen with me winding down at work. This summer will be a different story. Thanks for the invite.

In general, where do you folks find the best place to buy componets from a cost stand point?

Again, thanks, Matt

[Daryl Corona]

The wad that Kensal mentioned from Downrange is called the DR16 and it can handle loads from 3/4-1 oz. in a variety of hulls. Great wad.

[Paul Harm]

My club puts in an order about 4 times a year from Dawson Enterprises . Because we have a sales tax license we get whole sale prices. They're in Ohio - 7191 Nave Rd. S.W.
Massillon, Oh 44646. Phone # 330-833-0014. Retail is pick up at the store. We're kind of spoiled - no sales tax and no delievery charges.

[Paul Harm]

Daryl, I was on their web site - there's no load data on it for the DR16. Do they give you some with the order ?

[Daryl Corona]

Paul;
The best place to find info for this wad is the website 16ga society. I have it tucked away somewhere in this computer and I will attempt to forward what info I have within the next day or two.

[Daryl Corona]

Paul;
Thought I'd post this for anyone who is interested. You'll find the info on a chart towards the end of the post on the 16ga. topic I saved to my computer. One of the members of the 16ga. society sent these loads to Tom Armbrust, a ballistician, who tested them. They are very nice loads. I happen to have 2-3k of the black Rem. game loads (they are referred to as RGL's), lots of 20/28 powder which I also use for 20 and 28ga. loads and of course the DR16 wads. I reduced the payload down to 3/4oz from 7/8oz just to save money. Hope this helps, if not feel free to PM me or e-mail direct- dcorona28@gmail.com.
Regards,
Daryl

[John Campbell]

Paul:
The clays load I use for the Downrange 16 wad is:

Rem black hull
Win 209 primer
14.8 grs. of International Clays (MEC Bushing No. 22)
7/8 oz. of No. 8

Sub No. 6 shot for hunting.

Best, Kensal

[Paul Harm]

Thanks, I'll keep all the info for my 16ga friends.

[ken wight]

Great discussion, Any load data for the downrange wad and Federal hull?

[John Farrell]

Since you are just getting started, heed the advice of those on this forum about low pressure loads in the older 16 gauge gun. Also, think about making 2.5" hulls using a hull cutter such as the Ballistic Products old model Trim Doctor (if they still have them) to trim the hulls back. Then look at Precision Reloading's 16 gauge roll crimping tool that is held in a hand drill or drill press to make a nice roll crimp.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Go to www.16ga.com---the 16ga society and onto the reloading forum. You will find a variety of posts from spr310 and can go to spreadsheets with 100's of 16 ga loads. You can put in you8r hull type or your wad and get many good loads. There is also a spreadsheet of low pressure loads which is invaluable. I have all 3 on my computer favorites and can bring them up in seconds.
I use the DR16 wad with 7/8oz loads in my 16's, using low pressure loads with either PB or green dot powders, loading 2 3/4" Rem. Game Loads. Personally, I dont see the need to mess with cutting shells down to 2 1/2, but the RST's are great shells.
I also load 12 and 20's with light loads and they are just fine for clays and grouse size birds---and there is a hell of alot less recoil.
Shoot straight and shoot often.