Rib matting and cut barrels

[David Noble]

Typically the rib matting will terminate just shy of the barrel end and may or may not have a perpendicular cut-off line. I've heard that is not always the case but am wondering just how common it is for the lines to run right off the end of the rib? I just received my latest purchase, a CHE 12 damascus gun which shows in the book as having 30" barrels. The barrels measure exactly
30" but the wavy lines do not stop short of the end.
Here's a picture. What say you?

[Rick Losey]

if the book says 30 and the tape says 30, and we know the lines sometimes go to the end but often don't = I would tend not to question them

have you measured the length of the chokes - that might be the only other way to end the wonder.

where are the pictures of the rest of the gun??

[David Noble]

I will dig out my tools and properly measure the chokes tomorrow. I do know that they are very tight.
After looking at the barrel flats I'm seeing something that makes me think these barrels were already made up at the factory and were modified to the current configuration to fiil the order for the gun. It looks like a hole has been filled in where the extractor retaining screw is usually located. The gun was ordered as an ejector gun, and they didn't put that retaining screw in barrels that had ejectors. Here is a picture of the flats. Notice the slightly different colored round area between the lugs. Also showing is a Remington service code of ASS 3 which is March 1947. There is probably no way of ever knowing what they did at that time.
I am working on additional pictures now.

[Dean Romig]

This 1908 DHE 28 gauge has 24" Damascus barrels and letters as such. Can't argue with the facts.


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[Dean Romig]

David, I upped my magnification to 200% and looked at yours and it appears that the matting stops at or near the end of the rib and where the rib had a small blank spot at the left side someone at Parker Bros cut a little bit of a 'graver walk' to fill the blank area so the end of the rib would look uniform. I like that someone put that kind of effort into a seemingly insignificant detail... That's what makes Parker guns so special!

[Brian Dudley]

I too think that if we were to look very closely at more barrels like this, we may find that some of the lines may terminate just a hair before or at the end of the rib instead of going right off the end.
I wonder if any documentation exists about the operation of the rib mating machine. Does anyone know of the location of the machine today if it still exists? I know that Lefever Arms had it after Remington.

[David Noble]

WOW! Good eye Dean! I see that now also.

I didn't necessarilly think the barrels were cut, but wondered why some had the matting all the way to the end while most didn't.


Here are some pics of my new gun. I'm told it letters with the Silvers pad. The sellers letter is on he way to me now.
The barrels have what looks like a lacquer coating that is partially worn away. Would lacquer thinner remove the rest? What should I use to recoat them?

[edgarspencer]

Beautiful gun, David. That setter may be the best engraved dog I've seen on a Parker.
I Don't think you can rely on rib mat termination, or touching barrels as a definitive test for cut barrels. I've seen barrels still touching after loosing 4". I couldn't say whether your are, or are not cut, though I seriously doubt they are. The age coloration of the ivory sight is a telltale indicator that's it's been there a LONG time. It is pretty difficult to remove and reinstall ivory when it gets that colored, as they become quite brittle.

[Bill Zachow]

The rib matting machine went from Lefever's to a gun shop in Utica, NY. Litigation followed the transfer (allegations of stealing the machine). Subsequently, the gun shop in question went into bankruptcy and the machine dissapeared. Some say it went to Connecticut to a famous shop.

[George M. Purtill]

It is in Connecticut according to my source.

[Bill Murphy]

What a setter!

[George M. Purtill]

Those Remington repair code stampings is another example of Remington repairing Damascus guns.

[Gerald McPherson]

Sometimes over the years I have wondered about todays setters and pointers. I remember two setters that did not look right neither was their style and the way they carried themselves exactly normal. Many setters on Parkers remind me of them. Believe me they were complete bird dogs in every way. The older male was the best dead hunter I ever hunted over as many times he brought birds to his owner that we didn't know was even hit.. A pointer comes to mind that didn't look normal at all. In fact when I first saw it I didn't think he was even half English Pointer. He looked more like a bull dog. I remember thinking that thing can't be any good.Boy was I wrong. Good Memories. Gerald

[Richard Flanders]

That is a gorgeous gun David. What a beauty.

[edgarspencer]

It is in Connecticut according to my source.

You have a source? That explains a lot.

[Rick Losey]

David - thanks for the pictures -

and I'll agree with the rest- beautiful dogs on that one -

heck even the pointer is nice :rotf:

as for the style of the better done Parker dogs- I expect they had good models, or the better engravers hunted over good dogs.

the look back point from the trigger plates on some Parkers
http://www.oldhemlock.org/PhotoAblum/OHGathering/images/HPIM0483.jpg
http://www.oldhemlock.org/PhotoAblum/OHGathering/images/old_hemlock_reunion_011.jpg

classic pose
http://www.oldhemlock.org/PhotoAblum/OHGathering/images/hpim1174.jpg
http://www.oldhemlock.org/PhotoAblum/OHGathering/images/p1120007.jpg
http://www.oldhemlock.org/PhotoAblum/OHGathering/images/100_0045.jpg

[Brian Dudley]

Yes, very nice dog on the bottom of that gun! How am I not surprised that the matting machine is in CT. New Britain I would assume? ...

[Matt Valinsky]

OH, Good looking Setter!!!

[Pete Lester]

Typically the rib matting will terminate just shy of the barrel end and may or may not have a perpendicular cut-off line. I've heard that is not always the case but am wondering just how common it is for the lines to run right off the end of the rib? I just received my latest purchase, a CHE 12 damascus gun which shows in the book as having 30" barrels. The barrels measure exactly
30" but the wavy lines do not stop short of the end.
Here's a picture. What say you?

Have you measured the length of the choke taper? If the book and gun agree and the choke taper is 3 1/2 to 4 inches long I would say they are original length.

[Craig Larter]

Very nice looking CHE congratulations and beautiful damascus barrels. Does the pad have a widows peak at the top of the stock? If yes I would like to see a picture if possible. Thanks

[Dean Romig]

Have you measured the length of the choke taper? If the book and gun agree and the choke taper is 3 1/2 to 4 inches long I would say they are original length.


If the book and the gun agree and the choke taper is one inch long or even non-existent I would still say they are original length.

[David Noble]

Rick, I'm entertaining a relative this weekend, but will get the choke measurements hopefully tomorrow. I agree with you on the "look back point". I really like that when seen. Hey, I need you to teach me how to post a phrase or description between pictures like you did in your post. I can't figure it out.

Craig, there is no widows peak in the stock. I haven't received the sellers letter on the gun yet, but he says the LOP and the Silvers pad are both in the letter. The LOP measures 14".

Pete, see my statement above to Rick on the choke measurements. Once I get that done, it will tell the story.

Thanks to all for the comments and compliments on the gun. I am very very pleased with it.

[August Luchow]

Lacquer.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

David, Great gun and beautiful piece of wood too!

[David Noble]

Lacquer.

Thanks. Brush or spray?

[Paul Ehlers]

I owned a 30" Damascus GH-16ga which the matting went to the end of the rib. The PGCA letter confirmed the 30" barrels and also explained the matting. The letter stated that the gun was built for stock with 32" barrels. It sat in stock for a couple of years and an order came in for a gun with 30" barrels. Parker took the gun out of stock, cut 2" off and delivered it with the matting going clear to end of the barrels. It also only had about 2 1/2" choke tapers.

It was all factory work done before the gun was delivered.

[Dean Romig]

Very similar situation with the 24" 28 ga. Damascus DHE I pictured above. The gun was made with 28" barrels in 1908 and sat in inventory until 1912 when the order came in for a 24" gun. In fact, the stock book entry shows it as a TI3 but the order book shows it as a Dam3.
I suspect the Titanic 28" 28 ga. barrels were saved and a set of Damascus 28" barrels were cut and fitted to fill the order. The open chokes (4" cut off effectively removes all choke) would not have been a handicap as the gun was ordered for Jessie A. Bishop who would sometimes accompany her husband Henry A. Bishop of Bridgeport, CT on grouse and woodcock hunts at their camps in Maine. The Bishops were quite wealthy and were very well known and admired in Bridgeport and NYC high society. Henry A. Bishop had a very special Parker 28/20 two-barrel set made for himself. I'm working on an article about the Bishops and their Parkers.