Rst reloading

[Brian Dudley]

Anyone have any recommendations for reloading rst shells as to be able to maintain their low pressure properties for Damascus shooting. I am just getting around to wanting to use my reloading machine for the first time and looking for some pointers on products, sources and amounts. The rst loads I am looking to reload are the 1175 lite's. 12g 2.5" 1oz. In varying shot sizes. Obviously I would use 1oz of shot. But what you good recommendations be for powder and wads?

[Richard Flanders]

To start I'd cut one open to see what they use originally.

[Greg Baehman]

Check out this old thread for a couple of recipes:
http://parkerguns.org/forums/archive/index.php?t-4763.html

[Fred Preston]

Not directly helpflull to Brian, but I cut open a Black Cloud 2&3/4", 1oz, steel shot, 12ga to see what it looked like. The wad was heavy plastic, cup unslit, no cushion (not needed with steel?) but the tail was slit to act as a parachute I guess, shot weighed 415gr (about 5% less than stated), powder looked like Unique and weighed 28gr (what a load, may justify the 1500fps claimed).

[Mike.Smith]

Are you stuck on using 2 1/2 inch RST's specifically, or are you just looking for low pressure loads for your Damascus 12ga? My 12ga loader is a Mec Grabber, which is a progressive machine and can't be modified to load the shorter shells. I've only recently started reloading, and was asking the same question about short RST 12ga reloads. The Fox and Parker guys I've consulted about this told me not to worry as much about using a 2 1/2in versus a 2 3/4in inch shell for 12ga's. In a 16ga or especially in a 20ga I think it makes a big difference in the pressures, but not so much in the 12ga. I'm reloading Remington Gun Club, STS's, Nitro Golds, Federal Gold, and Winchester AA's in 2 3/4 inches and using them in my Parkers and Foxes that have short chambers. I'm using IMR PB Powder and the Claybuster Wads (CB-1100) and Remington STS 209 or Winchester 209 Primers. With that combination I've been able to come up with several 1oz loads from 1100fps to 1200fps, and between 6,000 to 7,000 PSI (some as low as 4,300) and I can use any of the hulls I've listed.

Mike

[scott kittredge]

i use 700-x, it has a lot of low pressure loads 13 to 16 grs or so for most loads at 1100 to 1150 fps at 5000 to 6000 psi, i use it from 20 ga 3/4 oz to 10 ga 1 1/4 oz loads. look it up and i think you will like it. scott

[John Dallas]

IMHO, 800x is a great low pressure powder. Only issue is that it is dirty, but who cares - you clean the gun anyway

[Brian Dudley]

I finally got to cutting open and weighing a couple of RST shells that I have. Both are 1oz lites. 6 and 7 shot.

Actual shot weight was .982 and 1.017 oz.
Powder measured in at 18.6 and 18.8 grains.

The other thread referenced mentioned using 20 grains and achieving 1,220 fps.
I know these factory RST loads are rated at 1,175 fps. if I remember correctly. So I am sure the additional grain or so of powder makes for the increased velocity. I am going to check out the local store by me that is known for having a lot of reloading supplies for very reasonable prices. Will have to see what kinds of powders they have. I doubt if they have the wads I need, but we will see.

[George M. Purtill]

Brian
What was the wad column made of in the RST?
Poly wad
Filler- what? inside the shotcup or under it?

[David Holes]

I do what 10 bore says, lite loads with 700x. I started out scared to pull the trigger, now I loadem and shootem. You do need to examine your own barrels ,to see what you are comfortable with. I have an old set of stub twist in a 1 frame 12 that are severly pitted. I shootem all the time. Start out light and move up as you feel more comfortable. Dave

[Daryl Corona]

Maybe Rich (COB) will chime in here. He reloads RST 2.5" almost exclusively and I've shot his loads. They are very nice loads. I'm sure he is celebrating the winter solstice today but when he sobers up he will see this post and respond.:rotf:

[Brian Dudley]

Here is the RST wad that I took out. The same in both shells. I know that the other thread mentions using IMR PB powder. My local shop does carry IMR powders. I see 700x is also made by IMR.

20670

[Rich Anderson]

Ok here I am the holiday is over I have eated to much and NOT washed it down with an over indulgence of adult beverages as I had to drive to Grandmas house and back.

Brian I load only RST 2.5 inch hulls in 12,16,&20. If memory serves I'm using Clays powder in the 12 and Galandi wads in everything. If you would like specific data please PM me and I'll provide it.

The 2.5 inch shell can't be loaded on a Grabber but Mec will make you a 9000 (maybe a Grabber I didn't ask) for the shorter hull. I have one for 16's and will order another for the short 20.

[George M. Purtill]

Here is the RST wad that I took out. The same in both shells. I know that the other thread mentions using IMR PB powder. My local shop does carry IMR powders. I see 700x is also made by IMR.

20670
Who makes that wad?

[Paul Harm]

First you have to know if it's a straight or tappered wall hull. Then you can buy the correct wad - Federal style wads for a straight wall, Win/Rem style for a tapper wall. With the proper style wad and the amount of shot to be used, you can then deciede what powder to buy. Most your standard primers are about the same - at least at the low pressures we reload it won't make a lot of difference. You'll have trouble useing plastic wads in 2 1/2" shells. You'll have to use fiber wads from www.circlefly.com to get a proper component height for a good crimp. Or, and I'm NOT recommending this to anyone, but what I've done in the past is use a wad intended for 1 1/4 or 1 3/8oz and load 1oz. The only thing that changes is the height of the cushion section of the wad. I have many reloading data manuals from different powder companies and after reviewing the data feel different wads from the same company can be used safely. This is just my feelings and only when useing the low pressure loads I use. If I were loading at the high end of the scale I wouldn't do it. Anyways, good luck and have fun reloading.

[Paul Harm]

That looks like a Remington figure 8 wad - or a replacement wad like a Claybuster.

[Rich Anderson]

I have NO problem using plastic wads from Ballistic Products in any of my 2.5 inch shells.

[Tom Carter]

Mister Rich, Data received. Thank you, Tom

[Daryl Corona]

That wad that you have Brian is a Gualandi wad. Ballistics Products carries them.

[Paul Harm]

Rich, are the wads made for 2.5" shells? The CB wads I'm talking about were made for 2.75" shells. I was just useing them because I had them.

[Rich Anderson]

Tom your welcome.

Paul yes the wads are designed for 2.5 inch hulls. They can be oredered from Balistic products

[Frank Allegra]

Here is the RST wad that I took out. The same in both shells. I know that the other thread mentions using IMR PB powder. My local shop does carry IMR powders. I see 700x is also made by IMR.

20670

Brian, I think Daryl is correct about it being a Gualandi wad. Here is a photo of the SG16 for comparison.

http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1891/10659945/21543282/405137625.jpg

[Brian Dudley]

That wad that I pulled out and pictured is marked Gulandi Italy on the inside, and the number 29. The measurements match the ballistics products number CS12S. They list that wad as being for 2-3/4" shells, but if that is what came out of the RST, then that is what I will put back in.

[Daryl Corona]

Brian;
I'm pretty sure that that wad can be used in a 2 3/4" hull. Best to call Ballistic products to confirm. They are great to deal with.

[Greg Baehman]

That wad that I pulled out and pictured is marked Gulandi Italy on the inside, and the number 29. The measurements match the ballistics products number CS12S. They list that wad as being for 2-3/4" shells, but if that is what came out of the RST, then that is what I will put back in.
Brian, I'm a bit confused . . . the wad you have pictured and labled "RST LITE" has a 3-compartment crush section directly below the shot cup. The Gualandi CS12S doesn't have that 3-compartment crush section. Doesn't your pic look more like the CS12 Competion Special?

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Target-wads/products/86/

The first pic below is the pic you posted, the 2nd pic is a CS12S and the 3rd pic is a CS12 Competition Special.

[Alan Hoeweler]

I reload a 2-1/2" 12 ga. to match the RST Lite shells. I've talked to Morris at RST and he would not divulge the load or manufacturer of the powder. I totally understand his reason and now I feel bad I even asked him. He has liability issues none of us even think about.
I do however use a load of my own concoction. It works very well in Vintage guns and generates between 1150 and 1180 fps . I use 22 grs. Of IMR PB, a 12ga Winchester gray wad for 7/8oz., WW209 primers. All shot sizes work well I like #9 or #8s for skeet targets and #7-1/2 for Sporting Clays.
I also use a Spolar loader which I had set up for 2-1/2” shells.
Hope this helps.

[Kirk Mckinney]

Mr. Rich... I just got a 1929 A.H. Fox Sterlingworh that has replaced my wife. I indeed am in Love.. I have been shooting RST Shells and am in need of some low pressure,low recoil loads... I saw you sent some to another gentleman and I would certianly use any loads you might share with me. I shoot everything from Quail.Dove, skeet and ducks. Thanks

[Rich Anderson]

What gauge and what length shells are you using? ALL my shells are the 2.5 inch.

[Kirk Mckinney]

12 Gauge 2 1/2 inch for old vintage sxs...

[Kirk Mckinney]

they are rst hulls

[Rich Anderson]

Kirk check your PM

[Paul Harm]

I've taked to CBers and said I was reloading for 2 1/2 and using the CB-3118 wad so things would fit. Also said my loads were in the 7500psi range. He said he had no data but wouldn't be afraid to shoot them, that pressure shouldn't change hardly any. I have nothing against BPI, other than high prices, but any after market wad that has a shorter cushion height that allows someone to get a load to fit should work. Now, I'm using data meant for a CB wad, just changing to a different CB wad. The skirts are the same, so pressures pretty much stay the same. I'm using 19.5grs of American Select and 7/8oz of shot. PB, 7625, and 4756 are all discontinued so you have to find other powders. BPi wads are about double the price of Claybusters. I know BPI makes some wads you can't get else ware, But if I can find another way that's cheaper, I do. JMHO Paul

[Kirk Mckinney]

Thanks for the info Paul. I'm learning. Lol I am accustom to pistol loads and you have a very small range and I was taught not to change anything that wasn't in the book. I see you can mix and match so to speak with shotgun. A little anyway.

[Eric Johanen]

My reloading for 2 1/2 inch used in all English game guns is: Cheddite/RST hulls, Win 209 primer, GU Z21 "Trap Commander" wad, 18.5 grains of American Select, 1 oz. Shot. 6 fold crimp for 1200 fps @ 6900 psi. Great load and hammers clays. With larger shot works well in the field. I use these in both damascus and steel barrels.

[Kirk Mckinney]

Thanks for the info Eric.....sounds like a good field load for Texas Dove or Duck. Does it work the same if you put non-toxic like bismuth in it instead of lead???/

[Eric Johanen]

Kirk, that I can not tell you. The only non-toxic loading I have done has been with Nice Shot. Loads with the same components as lead just around 1000 psi higher pressure. I do have to get some Bismuth #5 and work up a field load for the short ten's and SR 4756. Summer project getting ready for next fall.

[Rick Losey]

i would stick to published/tested loads for any non-tox

they all react different than lead and each other

Hodgdon's online load data has a low pressure 1 1/4 oz bismuth load for Cheddite hulls and longshot powder - I have loaded it in 2 1/2 inch hulls - works just fine

[Eric Johanen]

"Work up" was probably the wrong choice of words. I'll be using a Sherman Bell load tested by Tom Armbrust for velocity and pressure.

[Rick Losey]

i used one of the Sherman Bell loads last year- from Peter's spread sheet last season in one of my short tens- i liked the load

1 1/4 oz #4 bismuth plus buffer- 31 gr IMR7625 in the Remington green hull-