Czar Nicolas A-1 Special

[Bruce Day]

From Julia's in 2007

[George M. Purtill]

And its not even on a gold towel!!!
Horoshow! [sorry no cyrillic aphbet keys]

[Bruce Day]

And its not even on a gold towel!!!
Horoshow! [sorry no cyrillic aphbet keys]


I'll have to stop by the Holiday Inn for a towel.

I'm saving my turnips for something like this.

Turnip Bruce , formerly known as Checkbook Bruce.
Now if I don't fall off the truck.....

[Josh Loewensteiner]

Bruce- we gonna eat turnips later this week at Carla's place if we can't find any ditch parrots?

[Bruce Day]

Bruce- we gonna eat turnips later this week at Carla's place if we can't find any ditch parrots?


Nooooo. I have to save them if I ever want to get another gun.

Turnip Bruce

[calvin humburg]

WOW, I sure could go for a raw turnip and a salt shaker.

[Chuck Bishop]

Bruce,

How would you and your Mid West buddy rate this A-1 special compared to other A-1's you've seen? I've only seen pictures of other A-1's. I saw the Invincibles at the PGCA banquet but couldn't look at them real close. Is the engraving more ornate than other A-1's or anything else that would seem to indicate that the gun was made for someone special?

[George M. Purtill]

WOW, I sure could go for a raw turnip and a salt shaker.

UGGGHHHH
I am so glad i stopped the vegetable side of the farm. This time of year everything would smell like turnips and i hate turnips.

[Bruce Day]

Bruce,

How would you and your Mid West buddy rate this A-1 special compared to other A-1's you've seen? I've only seen pictures of other A-1's. I saw the Invincibles at the PGCA banquet but couldn't look at them real close. Is the engraving more ornate than other A-1's or anything else that would seem to indicate that the gun was made for someone special?


Chuck, there were two excellent articles on the Czar A-1 Special, DGJ and PP's, written by Austin Hogan, whom you see holding the gun. The articles accurately describe how the gun was made known to the Parker community and how the gun came to become available for re-sale. Without going back to those articles, it is my memory that the gun does not have any inscription that ties it to the Czar. However, there are contemporary documents saying the gun was made for the Czar and that it was to exhibit the best that Parker could do. See the attached newspaper article from the Meriden paper.

I believe that the consensus among collectors is that this gun has excellent deep cut engraving consistent with other top A-1 Specials. The only downside ( disclosed by Julia's) to this gun was that the stock had been replaced and was not up to A-1S standards. Trevallion could make a Parker perfect replacement with time and expense , however the Julia's purchaser stated that he was not concerned about that and was going to take the gun duck hunting.

The purpose of the posting at this time was that the other A-1 Special had just sold in San Francisco and there was discussion here about its engraving. Interested forum readers might want to compare the guns.

The SF gun sold for $60,000 plus 15%. The Czar gun sold for $250,000 plus 12%. Contemporary fine A-1 Specials were selling for $100,000 to $175,000; the unknown at the time was to what extent the value would increase because of the Czar connection. The gun drew considerable attention from high end collectors at the time although there were the usual adverse comments on this forum at the time from those who did not have the ability to enter the game.

Lest we forget, a beat up Springfield military rifle assigned to Lt Col Custer's command, tied to shell casings at the Battle of the Little Big Horn, and with Crow Indian carvings, sold for $500,000. Beat up Colt revolvers from western outlaws and lawmen have sold about that high.

Other collectors may have their own rememberances and views.

Best,
Bruce

[Mark Landskov]

Jack must have been the 'middle man' and had a buyer lined up for the Czar Gun. I went to see it about a week after he bought it, but it was gone all ready. Wow! His commission must have been a tidy sum! The various auction fees were $37,000....:eek:

[Brian Dudley]

I need to get copies of those old articles on this gun. Unfourtunately this gun was found after all of the Parker books have been written. But hey... That happens.

[Bruce Day]

No, Mark. Jack Puglisi was acting only for himself, was looking forward to keeping the gun and it was to be a centerpiece of his collection. He was made a very generous offer after purchase.

Jack's statements were that he told the purchaser that the gun was not for sale. The purchaser made an offer that for a businessman was compelling, somewhere in excess of a commission.

Jack mentioned the circumstances at several public occasions without disclosing the amount and I have been careful not to say anything that he did not want known.

[Bill Murphy]

The members of the PGCA research committee found the order for the Czar's gun in the Parker Brothers order books in 1998. I believe Kevin McCormack and I found the order, shopped it around among the other committee members. The consensus was that it was a nice high grade gun, destined to be sent to Russia in the hands of a General Officer, but none of us really thought it was the Czar's gun. The reason we concluded that it was not the Czar's gun was because the order did not mention the gold embellishment described by Peter Johnson in his book. In the end, no such gold embellishment was found on the gun. When "Not the Czar's Gun" was built in Tony Galazan's shop, the over the top embellishment described by Peter Johnson was incorporated in the design of that gun, and case. Maybe Bruce would send us some pictures of "Not the Czar's Gun" for those who have not seen it. It is pictured in The Parker Story if I remember correctly.

[Chuck Bishop]

Bruce,

I was aware of everything you commented on. I was looking for comments from those high end collectors on this web site, like you, as to how they would rate the Czar's Parker engraving compared to other A1'S's. Anything extra special about the engraving style or coverage that would set it apart.

I guess the answer is "No", each A1-S is unique.

[Dean Romig]

Those who may wish to compare engraving styles of other A1-S Parkers can begin by looking at Gen. Paul Cooper's A1-S in the Summer and Fall issues of Parker Pages.

[George M. Purtill]

Those who may wish to compare engraving styles of other A1-S Parkers can begin by looking at Gen. Paul Cooper's A1-S in the Summer and Fall issues of Parker Pages.

And you will also find a two issue series in the DGJ on A-1 specials. Can't remember the year.
Phenomenal pictures.

[greg conomos]

Czar's gun? I usually associate ownership with possession to at least some degree.

I have a Damascus GH 12 gauge that I purchased explicitly to be given as a gift to Abraham Lincoln. So let's see...$400 gun + $200,000 provenance. Any takers?

[Bruce Day]

Greg, you might note that at no time did I term the gun as "Czar's gun". Rather I called it "Czar gun" for shorthand and stated that it was made for the Czar, as reported in the contemporary newspaper article I posted. You are correct that at no time did Czar Nicolas take possession of the gun and I am not aware that anybody anytime ever claimed that he did. He was killed before the gun could be shipped, all as fully reported in the two articles I mentioned.

If you will review the Julia catalog entry before sale, you will see that it explains the known history that the gun was intended for the Czar but was never owned by the Czar. I am not aware that anybody has made more of that than stated. The facts were fully known and you know the price it brought.

So are you saying you have a GH that was made for Pres Lincoln who was killed in 1865? Could you explain that?

[Bruce Day]

Bruce,

I was aware of everything you commented on. I was looking for comments from those high end collectors on this web site, like you, as to how they would rate the Czar's Parker engraving compared to other A1'S's. Anything extra special about the engraving style or coverage that would set it apart.

I guess the answer is "No", each A1-S is unique.

Hello Chuck. In SoDak now for hunting. I call it "Czar gun" since it was never possessed by the Czar. To answer your question, to publicly rank or rate top level guns is not something I am competant in, and even if I was, I wouldn't. To me, they are all interesting. I have my personal likes of certain styles, and I find some others do not share those likes. Blondes, brunettes, redheads ?


Oh yeah. And its just a "lowly" A grade:

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I've told you boys before, but I keep having to remind you. Bruce travels in circles that none of us could dream of, he's parlay to insight and knowledge that only a handful of collectors are aware of.

Bruce should run this organization, it's just that simple. He should take over the website, newsletter, and be president of the board of directors. He's that skilled in the art of Parkerology. The rest of us are mere pikers, absolutely without a clue compared to what Bruce knows.

DLH

[Fred Preston]

Come on DH, give it a rest; just look at the pictures, forget the text. Bruce is Bruce; and, old Fred is old Fred, even if his feet stink, his dogs still like him.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I'll change when Bruce changes.

DLH

[greg conomos]

Bruce, I am not faulting you for calling it the Czar's gun. I recognize that title is in the public domain by now. Rather, I am poking fun and wonderment at the gun world for assigning such a name to a gun that to the best of our knowledge never was owned by the Czar. In fact, I don't think anyone can even show he even knew it existed at all. So if a gun of such stature can bring the big bucks I don't see why my Lincoln's Gun can't do the same. The fact that he was dead a little while before I bought it for him means nothing. There's no law that says I can't buy a gift for the deceased.

[Ross Goldsmith]

I've told you boys before, but I keep having to remind you. Bruce travels in circles that none of us could dream of, he's parlay to insight and knowledge that only a handful of collectors are aware of.

Bruce should run this organization, it's just that simple. He should take over the website, newsletter, and be president of the board of directors. He's that skilled in the art of Parkerology. The rest of us are mere pikers, absolutely without a clue compared to what Bruce knows.

DLH

Gentlemen:

Bruce is a real gentleman I met him only once: at the Collector's show in Denver several years ago: he was manning the PCGA booth - three years later there was no PCGA booth at the show in Denver.

Bruce was generous with his time and knowledge and his enthusiasm for Parker's was infectious He invited me to call him if I ever had a question about Parkers. Several months later, I called him about a Parker. He was on a fishing trip but he returned my call! He knew the gun and gave me his view about the gun. It's the best gun I own: not an A-1, a DHE 16

My membership in the PCGA (only an annual member, I admit) and interest in Parkers is largely due to Bruce's generosity and enthusiasm.

If the Parker community had other ambassadors like Bruce, we would all be better.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Ross. Bruce and his farmer buddy are very generous with their time and their willingness to show us those wonderful guns - mostly Parkers - that we might otherwise never be fortunate enough to see... or even suspect something like "that" exists.

Yup, we're lucky to have those guys and others like them. I'm impressed with the way they keep coming back after being insulted again and again. :clap:

[George Lander]

Perhaps a "Thumbs Down" icon could be added to the commentary

Just Wondering, George

[Jim DiSpagno]

Just a thought here. People with an outlet to share knowledge and expertise and the willingness to do so are rare. If someone has an issue with that person's personality, he or she should be respectful and show some restraint with regards to disparaging comments or remarks. If not then someday, and I sincerely hope that day never comes, such knowledgable people will refrain from sharing it with others. That would be a tremendous loss to all of our community. Please keep your words soft and sweet for you will never know when you will be made to eat them. Thank you, Jim DiSpagno.

[Bill Murphy]

Bruce, how about some pictures of "Not the Czar's Parker" for those who are not familiar with this great gun and case.

[Robert Delk]

Great idea.What do you think it cost to make the "Not the Czar's Parker?".and case.

[Bill Murphy]

It cost a bunch. "Not the Czar's Parker" and case were displayed at the Gold Medal Concours at the Vintage Cup several years ago. It was available for inspection for at least three days at that event. It is quite a gun and lived up to Peter Johnson's mistaken impression of an over the top example of gun decoration. Thankfully, the real Czar gun turned out to be quite conservative as A-1 Specials go.

[George M. Purtill]

Bill or anyone else,for those of us not in the know, what is the chain of ownership and sales prices associated with the fake.

[Robert Delk]

The case is really awesome and the gold work on the stock has me wondering how they got it to stay put. I had never seen gold inlay on a modern gunstock before.Someone had a great imagination when putting that ensemble together and a deep wallet.Maybe someday someone will publicly tell the tale of how it came to be and all the people involved with real names.

[George M. Purtill]

BTW
After 8 years of cold war Russian schooling I do know this: phonetically it is the Tsars's Parker, not the Czar's Parker.
Photos anyone?

[Robert Delk]

I know I'd like to meet the guys who did the stock and case.

[George M. Purtill]

I suppose this is the first clue its a fake.

[Bill Murphy]

The gun was built, probably start to finish, in Tony Galazan's shop. The gun was sold to a person who initiated legal action to recover damages when the gun was found to be a fake. There was serious doubt that the "customer" ever thought that the gun was for real because he was an experienced dealer and collector. As I recall, the verdict in the case was "Play nice and go home." At the time of the Gold Medal Concours display, the gun was owned by one of us. It probably is still owned by that person.

[greg conomos]

Tsar? Maybe we've been wrong all along. Maybe it is Caesar's Parker.

[Richard Flanders]

George: Seems that dbl eagle or whatever it is should be rotated 180deg? Is that the issue?

[Charlie]

George --
I vaguely recall seeing the "Not Czar" gun at the Las Vegas Winter show, circa late 1990s. It was on Don Criswell's table; He was a well known dealer from the LA, CA area. The tag price was more than my net worth, but I don't recall exactly -- something around 30 to 40K. Somehow, we got pictures as published in TPS but I can't recall whether they came from Criswell or whoever purchased it. I recall that you furnished us some documentation on the court case and that case was in 1985? Hope this helps with your question,
Regards, Charlie Price

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

OK, I think it is time for some photo's of this gun to be posted, not by me because I do not own it, what say you? I think it still resides in the same location as last I saw it?

[Bill Murphy]

I'm sure the pictures will come pretty soon.

[George M. Purtill]

Charlie
So good to draw you out.
The pictures for TPS came from me.
I still have my file. I re-discovered it today.
George --
I vaguely recall seeing the "Not Czar" gun at the Las Vegas Winter show, circa late 1990s. It was on Don Criswell's table; He was a well known dealer from the LA, CA area. The tag price was more than my net worth, but I don't recall exactly -- something around 30 to 40K. Somehow, we got pictures as published in TPS but I can't recall whether they came from Criswell or whoever purchased it. I recall that you furnished us some documentation on the court case and that case was in 1985? Hope this helps with your question,
Regards, Charlie Price

[Christopher Lien]

I'm sure the pictures will come pretty soon.
---------------------------------------------------

Bill,
Don't hold your breath wait'n for those "Not the Czar's Gun" Parker photos..:whistle:

Best, CSL
___________________________

[JAMES HALL]

This gun has nothing to do with the Col. Geo V. Tarnovski order of March 5th 1914. It is the first 16 gauge A-1. Its order was placed May 18th 1907.It has alot of similarities to the gun pictured in the first post. Thank Mr. Bishop for asking his question which caused this post.

[Bruce Day]

Just got back from SoDak. I don't understand what all the hoopla is about. We displayed the gun and case discussed at the NRA Convention last May, about 80,000 people saw it , the picture of Tsar Nicolas and and the DGJ article in which it was featured. The article will answer all questions here far better than I could. The DGJ article contains far better photos than I could ever take, such is the artistry of Bill Headrick.

Whether it will be at the NRA Convention in Houston, I can't say. It depends.

For those who were there, the gun was right behind us. The fellows behind us are looking at it.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks for those pictures Jim. 143556 has quite a story of its own.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Jim, that is one awesome gun you have! I have been fortunate to see it displayed, I love that deep engraving, Correct me if I am wrong but didn't someone close to you buy the gun new, some of the guys would love to hear about that! Gary

[Eric Eis]

This gun has nothing to do with the Col. Geo V. Tarnovski order of March 5th 1914. It is the first 16 gauge A-1. Its order was placed May 18th 1907.It has alot of similarities to the gun pictured in the first post. Thank Mr. Bishop for asking his question which caused this post.

Jimmy is that the gun that was at the annual meeting when we were showing 16 gauges? I remember when I saw it, my 16 ga skeet gun didn't have a chance :) What beautiful gun

[Bill Murphy]

The article on "Not the Czar's Gun" is in Double Gun Journal Volume 12 issue 4 by Bill Headrick. Jim Hall, has your gun been featured in a Parker Pages or Double Gun Journal article? I would like to read about it.

[Jeff Kuss]

I believe there was a DGJ story about Jim's gun.

[Kevin McCormack]

OK; this ping-ponging thread has begun to annoy me, so I must make the following observations"

Jim Hall's breathtaking A-1 Special has to be seen in hand to be truly appreciated; the only thing as good as the gun in hand is the wonderfully moving presentation Jim gave on the gun's history at one of our PGCA Annual Meetings long past.

The monotonous struggle in this thread for monikers selected for the faked-up gun supposedly mimicing the original gun intended for Nicholas has given me new impetus to select my own: I will henceforth refer to this recreation as the "CzaRepro."

The CzaRepro is a strange and mesmerizing gun; the feeling one gets examining it is not unlike trying on the London Fog raincoat of the reporter who broke the Lindberg kidnapping case (the faces of the eagles on the custom case gave me nightmares for days); Examining the real gun afterwards is understandably anticlimactic and underwhelming;

You can be absolutely sure that the estimated 80,000 people who viewed the gun at the NRA convention had positively no idea what all the 'hoopla' was about either, only that they were "knee deep in it."

If the CzaRepro surfaces again at the NRA Convention in Houston, there should be a simple voluntary questionnaire sheet the observers can fill out and drop in a ballot box with such questions as, "Does this look like the real Czar/Tsar 's gun to you?" If not, would you say that it appears (a) more ornate? (b) less ornate? " Also, "If you saw this gun come up at auction, how high would you bid up on it? (a) Very high (b) High (c) Medium (d) Low (e) Very low, or (f) Would not bid at all?"

Lastly and even more intriguing than this Maltese-Falconesque conundrum (is it possible that Peter Johnson actually saw the REAL one and described it accurately in his book, from whence it was faithfully 'reproed'???), look closely at the last May NRA Convention photo - the man standing on the extreme left examing the CzaRepro smacks mightily of a former Czar/Tsar himself - or is it only an apparition, like the second gunman on the grassy knoll??

[Bill Murphy]

Thank you, Kevin, for your level headed assessment of the Czar's gun situation. By the way, where is the real Czar's gun? Someone at a past Southern Side by Side told me who had bought it from Jack, but I was never able to confirm that. Who has it now?

[calvin humburg]

The flipfloping does not bother me, but some of the posters are a tad bit vexing.

[JAMES HALL]

I believe there was a DGJ story about Jim's gun.

For its 100th birthday Winter Issue 2007.

[Kevin McCormack]

Jim, I still have the color slide study series I did on your gun; I couldn't bear to throw them out, it is so beautiful.

Bill, you heard what I heard on the post-Jack P. owner, but I'm sure they "prefer to remain anonymous", per some of our upper-echelon Parkeratti.

ch, some of our posters are in desperate need of a spell-check app on their computers.

[Jim Thynne]

The San Francisco gun was on the list as a Whit 1 this was a very nice gun as redone early probably by Remington through the DelGrego shop. I am looking at another of the Whit 1 guns and will post it if this gun comes through.

[calvin humburg]

Spell check, well I'm not embarresed I can't spell. Spell check may make you appear brilliant but sooner or later they are going to figure you out. So I am what am vocaberaly impared. But hey, I'm strong to the finish cause I eat my spinich.

[Bill Murphy]

Jim Hall, thanks for the DGJ reference.

[Jim Thynne]

:)Bruce, I am not faulting you for calling it the Czar's gun. I recognize that title is in the public domain by now. Rather, I am poking fun and wonderment at the gun world for assigning such a name to a gun that to the best of our knowledge never was owned by the Czar. In fact, I don't think anyone can even show he even knew it existed at all. So if a gun of such stature can bring the big bucks I don't see why my Lincoln's Gun can't do the same. The fact that he was dead a little while before I bought it for him means nothing. There's no law that says I can't buy a gift for the deceased.

Then it was L C Smith built for the Czar??

[edgarspencer]

I have every reason to believe I also own not one, but several Not The Czar's guns. A few are not the Czars Hammer guns, and I even have a bunch of not the Czar's Winchesters. I Don't know if any of my Parker not the Czar's guns have ever left the United States, but I do know several went to South Carolina this fall.
Seriously, I remember when the Galazan gun was done, it was pretty upsetting to a lot of people in the gun community, not the least of whom was the owner of it, who was duped out of a lot of money. A very good friend was dragged into court to testify and he wasn't any too pleased as I recall. Yes, it was, and is a very beautiful gun, created by a very talented individual, but it's hard to forget his original motivation.

[Larry Mason]

Oh well, the Czar is dead and I don't feel too good myself.

I have "Not Bo Woop" but that is for another thread.

[Bill Murphy]

Are we sure that the maker of the gun had sinister motivation? The more important question is "Did the purchaser of the gun really think it was the Czar's gun?". Apparently, the judge in the court case thought that the purchaser was aware the gun was a fake. Can we get some reference to the court case?

[Jim Thynne]

All foolishness aside, the Czars gun was only second to the most sought after of the Parkers, it was probably #2 after the Invincibles. There was, and still is a mistique surrounding an American gun of finest quality built for one of the richest men in the world. He had his choice of many European guns as well as English guns, and certainly the National Museum has many of those guns that belonged to him. But the order was for the Czar and so it remains one of the "now American" treasures.
This gun was talked about in gun circles as long as I remeber, and I am 70 and started with Parker Shotguns at age 15. It is indeed a treasure, and it is the (ONLY) Czars Parker.

[Dave Noreen]

There really was an American shotgun made for Czar Nikki II but it wasn't a Parker Bros --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Marlin/MarlinforCzarN-II01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Marlin/MarlinforCzarN-II02.jpg

[Destry L. Hoffard]

If memory serves, the gun was ordered as a gift for the Czar. You wonder if the Czar himself was ever even aware it existed.

DLH

[Dave Noreen]

When it comes to A-1 Specials for famous folk, I'd rather have the Clark Gable A-1 or perhaps the long barrel 16- or 20-gauges made for Edwin Hedderly.

[Jim Thynne]

To each his own! But the fact remains if I owned the Czars Parker, I would not argue, and it would dissapear once again. By the way it is hidden well in California!

[greg conomos]

That's my point - he never even knew it existed. So the connection to him is is as tenuous as that of my Lincoln Gun. We have no indication at all the Czar wanted or had any awareness of the gun.

It's also reasonable to surmise that, had the Czar been presented with the Parker, he would have smiled thinly, murmured a few pleasantries, then had his gun keeper toss it in the corner with the rest of his fancy guns and never laid eyes on it again. In the back of his mind he would have made some vague note that he had had his royal rear end kissed a little by whomever had given him the gun. End of story.

My guess is the Czar preferred gifts of real substance - chests of gold, or the occasional small country.

My disappointment at the moment is I have yet to receive a single PM'd offer on Lincoln's Gun. Imagine - a Parker intended as a gift for one of America's most revered presidents. I guess this BB is not populated by the heavy hitters of the Parker world. Or maybe I need to get yet another Parker to be given to Obama?

[calvin humburg]

:banghead:

[Jim Thynne]

The gun was ordered by the Czar, or so it was published in the Meriden newspaper.
Is there provinence on the Lincoln gun? I would be interested.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Maybe somebody will post the newspaper article. It's been ages since I read it so my memory may be faulty.

DLH

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Bill, In your question of the court records. They are as follows; Civil No. H-85-23, brought before The Hon. M. Joseph Blumenfeld, Senior U.S.D.J. February 11, 1985 at the Federal building in Hartford Connecticut. The case was filed April, 8 1985 by the Clerk in Hartford. Gary

[Robert Delk]

Gary? Did Gary Hermann play a part in this or should I be asking?

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Robert I couldn't say, The fake gun came out of the Parker factory as a AAHE and was sold to a private detective in Salt Lake City in the early 1900's. A fellow named C.A. Sage, hence the name "The Sage Gun"

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Robert if memory serves me gary Herman was paid 5,000 to be a mediator, I could be wrong.

[Bill Murphy]

Mr. Herman was not an involved principal. Maybe someone will mention the name of the principals. Tony Galazan is well known to have built the gun. I know the other person, but I'll wait for someone else to mention his name.

[calvin humburg]

Let the deceased rest. Most has done something imperfect.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I agree, let it rest. Bill, I sent you a PM check it out. Gary

[Christopher Lien]

In addition to being displayed and viewed by more than 80 thousand people at a recent convention. The "Not the Czar's Gun" also enjoyed celebrity status again in June of this year when it appeared in the issue of a popular Sporting Magazine as a full page photo prop for a rather strange story about three Idaho hunters. In this story, two of the Idaho hunters were portrayed as felonious thieves willing to do just about anything to get their hands on a special Parker A-1...

In Summary: ... The story begins with the first Idaho hunter described as a man who fakes his own death in a hunting/drowning accident to collect $500,000 from an insurance fraud scheme. A second elderly Idaho hunter who owns a nice high grade A-1 Parker dies of cancer. And a third Idaho hunter climbs through a window of the recently deceased hunters home in a late night burglary to obtain the high grade A-1 Parker he claims his old friend wanted him to have after his death. The purpose of the late night covert acquisition, to abscond with the A-1 Parker before the deceased mans relatives arrive from another state to claim his belongings. The first Idaho hunter, while in the process of faking his death for the insurance money and preparing to leave town, also decides to steal the A-1 Parker from the third Idaho hunter who had already taken the gun from the second deceased hunters home just a few months before..... Fast---forward, after about two years go by, the third Idaho hunter eventually tracks down the first Idaho hunter and his wife who are now on the run hiding near the mexican border with the stolen A-1 Parker and hunting Quail. After a confrontation and threats to report the first Idaho hunter to the proper authorities for his faked death insurance scam, the Parker is soon returned to the third Idaho hunter who had originally liberated it from the second deceased hunters home in the first place... The last words in the story come from a personal note that was in the shipping box with the Parker A-1 upon it's return, a quote that reads: "And they say there's no honor among thieves"... The End...

What A Story. --- Obviously NOT a literary work worthy of this years Pulitzer Prize for distinguished fiction by an American author... It Will Be Interesting To See Where Photos Of The Infamous Gold Embellished "Not the Czar's Gun" Show Up Next...

CSL
___________________________



.

[Dean Romig]

Chris, that story is somewhat reminiscent of the story of Maj. General Paul Cooper's stolen A1-S - the twist is that his story is non-fiction.

[Drew Hause]

Capt. A.W. Money had 2 Pigeon guns stolen.
He was 2nd in the 1894 GAH and used his Greener in the 1897, 1898 & 1899 GAHs; a Parker in 1900 & 1901. He purchased a CH Parker SN 87238 in 1897 which he returned for his discount purchase price of $75 in Dec. 1898. He also used a L.C. Smith in 1897 and purchased a Smith A2 in 1901.
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1901/VOL_37_NO_23/SL3723022.pdf
Reward offered for Parker stolen July 20, 1901; SN 90,635, 8#, 30” barrels.

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1902/VOL_38_NO_24/SL3824014.pdf
Captain Money, of the "E. C." and "Schultze" Powder Company, New York, is mourning the loss of his Parker pigeon gun, which was stolen February 15 (1902) at Paterson, N. J. The gun was taken from the case and shells substituted, giving it the required weight, so he did not discover his loss until some hours later. This is the second Parker gun Captain Money has lost in this manner.

[David Noble]

I can see everyone that owns an old CH scrambling to check the serial number.
What would you do if it was the one? :eek:

[Bill Murphy]

If everyone who owns a neat old Parker would order a letter, there would be much less mystery and drama when we learn these facts about our guns.

[Chuck Bishop]

And a lot more work for me:eek:

David, I thought the same thing and checked the letter database. No record of a letter being done on 90635.

[George M. Purtill]

I can see everyone that owns an old CH scrambling to check the serial number.
What would you do if it was the one? :eek:

Bring it down to the local police station and turn it in as stolen property so they could cut it in half.

[Dean Romig]

Phew! I have 90,739 - an 8#, 30" DH... Man, that was close!

[Christopher Lien]

Chris, that story is somewhat reminiscent of the story of Maj. General Paul Cooper's stolen A1-S - the twist is that his story is non-fiction.
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Dean,
The gun theft subject appears to be a popular topic in periodical writing these days... It was just last week I heard about another strange criminal related hunter/gun article currently being written that centers around a pair of unscrupulous characters from the Kansas and Missouri area... Sounds like the story will be another fictional tale with lots of interesting details, and may be a real (who-dun-it) page turner...

CSL
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[bruce a lyons]

Thanks for all the great photos and info. I haved learned a ton from you already!

[Christopher Lien]

I wonder if the Russians had competitive and organized live bird/Pigeon shooting events similar to those in the U.S. during the late 1870's through the early 1900's?... And if so, what kind of shotguns, gauge, and barrel lengths they were shooting in the land of Czar/Tsar Nicholas II during that time period?...

CSL
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[Kevin McCormack]

Are you kidding? Nothing like our pigeon shoots in the 1870's, '80's and '90's existed in Russia unless you were on the Czar/Tzar's 'A' List, or knew someone who was who was willing to bring you as a guest! Accordingly, when the great unwashed got tired of not being able to even muster a decent handicap, they took over the country! So far as guns, gauges, barrel lengths, chokes and actions went, it was 'best Bests', 12, 32", tight and tighter, and either SxS or O/U (no Cosmis or A-5 Special for Pigeons, please!).

[John Davis]

I now own Money's 87238 and she's a great gun with some neat history. Sits right next to the Kimble guns. John

[Dave Suponski]

John, Was that the gun I shot at the Southern a couple of years ago? That is a great gun!

[John Davis]

That's the one.

[Christopher Lien]

Are you kidding? Nothing like our pigeon shoots in the 1870's, '80's and '90's existed in Russia unless you were on the Czar/Tzar's 'A' List, or knew someone who was who was willing to bring you as a guest! Accordingly, when the great unwashed got tired of not being able to even muster a decent handicap, they took over the country! So far as guns, gauges, barrel lengths, chokes and actions went, it was 'best Bests', 12, 32", tight and tighter, and either SxS or O/U (no Cosmis or A-5 Special for Pigeons, please!).
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Kidding? --- Nope!

Your commentary was very interesting though - It's almost like you were actually there in Russia during the 1870's, '80's and '90's!

As for "Cosmis", Sounds like a killer CheeseSteak Deli at the corner of 8th & Dickinson in Philadelphia!

http://www.cosmideli.com/welcome.html


CSL
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[Bill Murphy]

A bump to the top for an interesting thread.

[Christopher Lien]

I now own Money's 87238 and she's a great gun with some neat history. Sits right next to the Kimble guns. John
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Capt. Money owned several interesting guns throughout his shooting career. Below are a couple images from a rare old photo of a club shoot showing a relaxed A.W. Money posing with several of his contemporaries. Those familiar with some of the early 1900's shooting legends will probably recognize the faces of Marshall, Elliot, Gilbert, and Heikes, also in the photo...

Best, CSL
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http://www.webpak.net/~cslien/1MoneyShootA.jpg
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http://www.webpak.net/~cslien/1MoneyShootB.jpg
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[Drew Hause]

That image may have been taken at one of the "E.C." Cup events
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1910/VOL_56_NO_17/SL5617011.pdf
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1910/VOL_56_NO_17/SL5617012.pdf

The first "E. C." Inanimate Target Championship Cup was held May 5-8, 1896, at the Guttenburg racetrack, above Weehawken, N. J. The match consisted of 100 targets, unknown angles, from known traps; 100 targets, unknown traps and known angles (commonly called expert rules - At expert rules, one man up in the centre of five traps, pulled unknown, according to an indicator); and 50 pair of doubles.
Fred Gilbert won with a score of 266. Fulford and Elliott were next with 261, while Heikes came in third with 258
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1896/VOL_27_NO_08/SL2708020.pdf

[Christopher Lien]

By golly they did have some Pigeon shoots in Russia during the early 1900's, not exactly the same live-bird events as those held here in America, but the Russians were certainly shoot'n a few Pigeons in 1915... I ran across this article a few nights ago while doing some Parker research... Written by P.B. Deane, an American in Russia on war related business, who also found time to visit and shoot at the Petrograd "Imperial Gun Club" in June of 1915... The following 2 images below show how Deane's story appeared in the June 1916 issue of the American Shooter Magazine...

Best, CSL
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http://www.webpak.net/~cslien/1RussianShootA.jpg
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http://www.webpak.net/~cslien/1RussianShootB.jpg
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[George M. Purtill]

Really good stuff Christopher. Thank you for sharing.