do any of you shoot blackpowder shells?

[Joe Mason]

just wondering if anybody on here shoots BP shells with their twist/damascus barrels. Ive read the finding out for myself articles in DGJ, and feel confident to take my Damascus guns out from time to time with light nitro loads, casual pheasant or grouse shooting, but on the other hand I also have a Parker hammer gun on layaway at my favorite gun shop that is a 12ga 30" 2 3/4 choked full and full with twist barrels that i would like to drop a turkey with next year, now i would think in that application it would make more sense to use a proper BP load, please anybody interject with their opinion.im looking forward to your responses thank you

[Russ Jackson]

Hello Joe ; I shoot a 20 Ga. PH grade with Twist Steel barrels and also a couple of Hammer 10 Ga. Parkers with Damascus steel barrels ,and I use the Vintager Shells made by, RST, excellent low pressure shells with plenty of hitting power ! Remember though your barrels should always be checked first by a competent smith .I do have some BP shells but the cleaning is a very dirty job ! Good Shooting ! Russ

[James T. Kucaba]

Hello Joe ; I shoot a 20 Ga. PH grade with Twist Steel barrels and also a couple of Hammer 10 Ga. Parkers with Damascus steel barrels ,and I use the Vintager Shells made by, RST, excellent low pressure shells with plenty of hitting power ! Remember though your barrels should always be checked first by a competent smith .I do have some BP shells but the cleaning is a very dirty job ! Good Shooting ! Russ


Russ ... You're in error ... "Vintager" Shells are a Poly-Wad product not RST ... But that's not taking anything away from the great low pressure shells made by RST.

Respectfully, Jim Kucaba

AriZOOna Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com

[Russ Jackson]

Russ ... You're in error ... "Vintager" Shells are a Poly-Wad product not RST ... But that's not taking anything away from the great low pressure shells made by RST.

Respectfully, Jim Kucaba

AriZOOna Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com

James; You of course are correct, I stand corrected ! And apologize ,I even looked at my boxes before making the post :shock: My Vintager ammo I have is for my 16 Ga. and I do in fact have the RST ,in the 10 Ga. and the 20 Ga. loads ! Thank you for straightening this up ! Both work quite well .I have to say ,I really don't care for the cleaning of the BP ,but it really is fun to shoot ,you have to rely on your buddy to see if you hit any thing ! When I purchased the 16 Ga. it is a DH grade ,O Frame gun w/ Damascus barrels the gentleman I bought the gun from ,sent me five boxes of " Classic Black Powder Cartridges " loaded by Game Bore Cartridge Co. Great Union St.,Hull England ,That was a nice suprise and the gun was even nicer than it looked in the Pics. Sometimes things just work out really well ! Russ

[Leighton Stallones]

Unless you like the smoke, why shoot Black Powder loads that have MORE pressure
than moderate handloads or low pressure smokeless. Sherman Bell's articles indicate as much as 2000 psi increase with "Normal BP loads"

[Joe Mason]

RST it is then. It sure is nice to here some information based on experience intead of theory thanks again.. You guys have a great board here

[Mike Shepherd]

I shoot black in the MagTech brass shells. My favorite bobwhite load is 2-1/2 drams of ffg and 1 oz of 7-1/2s. The vegetable oil lubed fiber wads from circle fly make clean up easy. I use the Duco cement from the local Ace Hardward franchisee to glue in the over-the-shot card.

I have a sixteen VH O frame that I shot almost all of last season with this recipe.

The only drawback is that the smoke cloud obscures the target. I have to rely on my dogs and hunting buddy to mark the downed bird or to let me know I missed.

Mike

[Ed Blake]

Loading BP shells is easy using primed Cheddite paper hulls and Circle Fly wads. The only equipment necessary other than a dipper is the roll crimper for your hand drill. Follow this link: http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

[Don Kaas]

I load blackpowder 10 gauge shells using 4 drams of FFG Pyrodex and 1 1/4 oz of #4 bismuth in a Federal brown hull cut to 3" for use in a #3 frame T1 30" 10 ga toplever hammergun known as "The Sinkbox Society" gun and engraved on the rib as such. Destry and I both shot this gun out of a battery in the St. Lawrence to good effect. I also used a #1 frame D3 30" 12ga toplever this year in the marais at our Quebec camp loaded with 3 1/2 drams of FFG Pyrodex and 1 1/4 oz of bismuth #5 in UMC cases. When used on the open water wildfowling the smoke is rarely an issue even for a second shot due to the usual presence of a breeze and the Pyrodex isn't quite as smokey as Hazard's Ducking Powder...Destry just gave me some RMC turned brass cases in 10 ga. I have some 10 ga UMCs I've never tried so I guess we'll have to get 'em loaded. I also have about 800 Federal paper cases in 12 ga I am going to try out as more authentic waterfowling loads for the old guns. I sure wish they still made Dupont Bulk Smokeless...

[John Mazza]

Joe:

I used to shoot BP exclusively out of my Parkers. Bear in mind that those shells will not pattern as tightly as the RST shells...
Hoever, if you want to shoot them on certain occasions, or when the shots will be close & fast - the open patterns will help your scores !

( I like to shoot BP shells when I hunt preserve pheasants with friends. They expect me to be out there with some crazy old artillery, and all the smoke gives them something to b*tch about. ...and since BP shells shoot big patterns, I can get on the birds quicker then they can !!!!!)

Get a few boxes of BP, but also get a few cases of RST shells !
RST also offers fiber-wad shells (will pattern more like the BP loads) and have recently cataloged a spreader load that'll offer fuller & wider patterns.

It's SO NICE to not have to do more than a Hoppes # 9 cleaning & an oily rag after a long day's hunt...

[Bob Roberts]

A word to the wise about shooting BP and smokeless ammunition. Do not try shooting smokeless after shooting BP in the same session without first giving the barrels a good cleaning. Do not think that even after firing only a few BP loads, "just for fun", you can "shoot your gun clean" with smokeless. It does not work and you will create a cleaning nightmare during which you will discover you know cuss words you never knew you knew.

[Francis Morin]

I had a old LeFever G grade 12- 30" Twist barrels and I bought a box of British BP paper 12- their No. 6 shot 2.5" 1 0z. after we Magnafluxed the barrels, we shot it for proof and pattern with some of those loads, also some 2.5" RST shells as well- absolutely no problems with either- I still have some of those paper BP12's and also some in 20 bore (3/4 oz. No. 7 shot) and I agree, it is fun to use them in one tube when hunting with others-

I bought a older 1851 Colt Navy .36 cap and ball- with some accessories in the box- and perhaps you BP gents can identify and date same for me- (1) Older ed metal can with screw off top with logo label DUPONT 1F Superfine FFg Gunpowder with Wilmington, DEL. U.S.A. address (no zip code) on back in black ink-- at base MADE IN U. S. A. below that NET Wt. 1 lb. or 454 Grams= after I have my gunsmith check over this older Colt, wonder if that powder would be correct for that weapon and cal.- I also found in the box a new red and white same size cannister of GOEX, INC. also FFg Superfine Black Rifle powder- later issue as it has a zip code for the factory in MOOSIC, PENNSYLVANIA, 18507, U.S.A.- similar powders? just the "Uncle Dupey" stuff is older, right??

I only reload AA 12 target hulls- with Red Dot and 209 primers and white wads-for clays and non-game birds- have no experience reloading paper shells with BP-thanks for any information on the powder cans--:bigbye:

[Joe Wood]

Fellers, cleaning BP fouling is hardly any more messy than cleaning regular smokeless. Remove the barrels, holding them vertically I squirt Windex into each tube till it drips out the other end. Run a wad of paper towel through each tube and then finish cleaning with a couple wet patches of Windex. Dry and lube the barrels with whatever you like. I use non-petroleum products, such as Wonder Lube, to finish with if black powder is to be used. Nothing could be simpler. Cleaning with water, etc., is so messy I don't think I'd shoot the stuff if I had to do it.

[Mike Shepherd]

I sure wish they still made Dupont Bulk Smokeless...

Don I have been experimenting with Rex III. It is very bulky. For instance, from the 16 gauge reloaders group, there is a recipe for Rex III that propels 1 oz of shot at 1230 fps and 9200 psi. It calls for 22 grains which I get pretty close to with a MEC #38 powder bushing.

Best,

Mike

[Ed Blake]

Sherman Bell did an article in the DGJ last year about Trail Boss powder in BPCR. He likes it, but it is not the bulk smokeless he had hoped for in a rifle. Too little velocity with equal pressure. Has anyone used it in a shotgun? I have used 50/50 anti-freeze and water to clean a shotgun after BP. The residue just slides out the barrel. Clean up is very fast. The key is unpitted bores no matter what you clean with.

[John Mazza]

Francis:

Is this gun an antique or one of Colt's "reproductions ?"

Either can sounds like it contains your basic "2F" black powder. Typically, people use the finer "3F" granulation in C&B revolvers. 2F will work, but it'll leave a lot of residue (even more than 3F) and won't be efficient in such a short barrel (probably 7.5 inches). It'll launch one helluva flame !!!!

BTW: My C&B guns like # 10 caps (not the more typical # 11). They fit the nipples better (tighter). I've had # 11's knocked off of my Walker replica by recoil...

Use felt wads beneath the ball, or a lube over the seated ball. My 36 C&B will easily keep all 6 shots in the black at 25 yards - if I do my part !

[Harry Collins]

Windex with Vinigar is good but avoid windex with amonia. I like plain hot water as well as MAP which is equal parts of Murphy's oil soap, isopropyl Alcohol and hydrogen Peroxide to cean barrels and just wipe up the mess. I did use Wonder Lub but have found rust afterward and now use Fluid Film (find it at your farm supply store) on all my BP pistols and muzzel loading shotguns and rifles and have never pulled a "brown" rag through a bore since. I use FFF in all pistols but FF works great in .36 cal and above. The standard Military pistol loads were 1 1/2 dram (35 gr) for Dragoons, 1 dram (28 gr) for 44 Army, 3/4 dram (20 gr) for .36 Navy and 1/2 dram (14 gr) for the 32's. These are all by volume and not weight
I have shot smokeless loads after BP loads without event and am curious of the ramifications? Sure don't want to screw up!
Harry

[David Hamilton]

Yes, the clean-up is more complicated but it goes with these older guns and "feels" right.
It is fun to load and shoot your own shells and the smoke and sulphur clouds are part of the display. The pellets kill just fine. The clean-up is important to the survival of your barrels but can be done correctly without any high tech methods. I love it ! David

[Francis Morin]

[QUOTE=John Mazza;7278]Francis:

Is this gun an antique or one of Colt's "reproductions ?"

Either can sounds like it contains your basic "2F" black powder. Typically, people use the finer "3F" granulation in C&B revolvers. 2F will work, but it'll leave a lot of residue (even more than 3F) and won't be efficient in such a short barrel (probably 7.5 inches). It'll launch one helluva flame !!!!

BTW: My C&B guns like # 10 caps (not the more typical # 11). They fit the nipples better (tighter). I've had # 11's knocked off of my Walker replica by recoil...

Use felt wads beneath the ball, or a lube over the seated ball. My 36 C&B will easily keep all 6 shots in the black at 25 yards - if I do my part !-- This is a Repro- believe the former owner bought it as a commorative about 25 years ago-I bought it at a yard sale- three other fellas had looked at it, but they had "two strikes against them" I guess- they didn't have cash money, wanted to write the Lady a out of area check- and her son-in-law told her, thankfully, to only sell to someone with a purchase permit. In Michigan, if you have a CCW, as I do, you don't need a purchase permit for any handgun, BP or cartridge gun-in fact, you can buy a shoulder arm (shotgun, rifle) without the NICS check if you have a valid CCW-I explained that to her, she called the Country Sheriff's Office to verify that, and then I paid her in cash (and got a signed receipt.) The nipples have corroded a bit so I have the cylinder immersed in Kroil- the bore looks fine- no pits or "coal mine" look, but I wonder how accurate it will be- I have an early series Python with 7.5" barrel and use .38 wadcutters for target work and practice (sometimes I do a Russian reverse roulette- load one of the 6 with a full house .357- spin the cylinder and close it without looking- one possible good way to avoid a flinch-the bane of all accurate rifle and pistol shooting- IMO-As our gun clubs indoor range (for now) is only set for .22LR- my winter league pistol shooting will be with my .22 MT Woodsman circa 1940 ("elephant eared grips")-but by Spring I'll start with this "coal burner" and see what I can do with it-Thanks for the tips--:cool: