Skeet and 16 gauges

[George M. Purtill]

I am doing some side research for an article and was wondering when the 16 gauge came and went as a skeet gauge?
Was it ever an official skeet gauge?
Does anyone have any references that I can read on this subject?
The Parker Skeet gun was offered in a 16- did it ever stop being offered in that gauge?

[Dean Romig]

I don't recall the date or even the year but the 16 gauge was officially dropped from the official skeet gauges. Bill Murphy might be a good source of information on that topic.

[Chuck Bishop]

George Purtill, I'm trying to get in touch with you. Send me your phone number on an e-mail to pgca_research@comcast.net

[George M. Purtill]

George Purtill, I'm trying to get in touch with you. Send me your phone number on an e-mail to pgca_research@comcast.net

Sounds like I'm getting called to the Principal's office.

[Chuck Bishop]

George,

I just called your number and you didn't answer. I'm starting to get an inferiority complex:shock: Maybe a ruler over the knuckles would do the trick!

All kidding aside, I left a voice mail on your cell phone and home answering service (I hope it was correct)

[Brian Dudley]

My guess would be that the dropping of the 16g. from the skeet format, might coincide with when manufacturers stopped offering 16g. guns new. Not sure of the time frame of that though.

[Bill Murphy]

Without going through my complete research file, here is the quick answer from some early rule and average books. In the beginning, skeet was not classified by gauge or skill classification, (up to and including the January 1, 1933 rules). The first step was to classify by shot weight, (January 1, 1934 rule and average book). The heaviest weight was 1 1/4 ounces. Any gauge could be used. The next weights or categories were 1 ounce, then 7/8, then 3/4, then 1/2. Oddly NSSA allowed any gun to be shot if the load was adhered to, except that no 1 ounce 12 gauge load was mentioned on the "shot load table". The 1934 shot load table addressed shells by brand and type, reloads were not addressed. The next several steps, don't know exactly when, were changes in shot weight to 1 1/8 ounces, and the change of the heaviest shot weight class from 1 1/4 ounce class to "All Bore", which meant any gun but limited to 1 1/8 ounces. All-Bore class takes us all the way to post war times. The 16 never had a named class and the 16 gauge gun was shot in the All-Bore class, and the 12 gauge class today, because no gun bigger than the 20 can be shot in the 20 gauge class. Dick Shaughnessy actually won the All Gauge National Championship with a 16 gauge Model 21 in that era. In my years of collecting skeet memorabilia, I have not owned or seen a 1935 or 1936 average or rule book, so on to 1937. By 1937, shot load named classes 1 through 5 have been changed to All-Gauge, Twenty Gauge, Smallgauge, and Sub-Smallgauge. Shot loads are assumed to be 1 1/8, 7/8, 3/4, and 1/2. Yes, I said "assumed" because the rule book does not say a thing about shot weights. By this time, our friend William Harnden Foster has had his name removed from the NSSA masthead, but NSSA still works out of Foster's offices in Boston. Nothing much happens in the years leading up to and immediately following the war. No letter classifications by average or skill level are mentioned until the 1954 average book, and then only the All Gauge class was mentioned. The average books were very difficult to decipher because after the mid thirties, the rules were not included. Even in 1954, the first mention of letter classes by average, the class table, if it existed, was not posted in the book. All information I have included is from official NSSA publications, but is not assumed to be complete. In my experience, the missing years of 1935 and 1936 can be explained by the inclusion of the monthly NSSA news in the National Sportsman magazine, William Harnden Foster's outdoor publication. However, it is just too difficult to search all of the thirties National Sportsman magazines for tidbits of NSSA rules information. Go for it if you want. I hope this helps with your research.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks very much Bill... I knew you would have some pertinent information.

As we all know, Foster died in 1941 while at a field trial in CT - Were the NSSA headquarters still in his office even after his death?

[George M. Purtill]

Thanks Bill- you are Murphy-pedia. Dean was right.

[George M. Purtill]

Bill- so when did 16 gauge become un-invited to the competition? If you know off-hand.

[Scott Janowski]

I think even today, you could shoot a 16 gauge in an All Bore (12 gauge)event as long as you were not shooting more that 1 1/8 oz Shot.

[George M. Purtill]

Scott
That is a great factoid.

[Bill Murphy]

Sixteen gauge was never disinvited. There is no time in NSSA history that the sixteen could not be shot. In the five class system, the 1 ounce class was inclusive of the sixteen, but heavily loaded twenties could shoot also. The twelve was unofficially eliminated from that class because no factory one ounce twelve gauge loads were listed in the "shell list". When the "Twenty Gauge" class was created, all 16 gauge shooters were in All Gauge because of the nomenclature of the "Twenty Gauge" class. Today, the sixteen will shoot with the twelve gauges regardless of shot load because no gun larger than a twenty can compete in the twenty gauge class, just as it has been since 1937 or maybe earlier. Remember, we have no rule books from 1935 and 1936. Shaughnessy's national championship was won in 1936, but we don't know what rules made him compete in the All Gauge category.

[Dean Romig]

Very interesting Bill. All this time I have been laboring under the misconception that the 16 had been eliminated from official competetion. Thanks for the information.

[Steve McCarty]

What I know about the 16 gauge:

They used to be quite popular, being lighter than 12s and still shot good patterns with and oz or 1 1/8 of shot.

I read that the magnum 20 was a heart shot for the 16, which was on shakey legs anyway. I had never shot a 16 until I shot mine and since then I've developed a liking for them, or if for no other reason that I like being different. (I still like girls tho.) In addition my two 16s are quite a lot lighter than a like model 12. A lot lighter.

I hear people are complaining when some one cuts loose with a magnum 20. I've never fired one, but I guess they crack similar to a .410. The report of a .410 bothers me. I also read that the mag 20 shoots a long, ragged shot stream that does not pattern well. We also know that for standard range shooting more muzzle velocity doesn't make much diff when it comes to killing birds. So why the mag 20? I hear of very few hunters are using them. Is that so? They, and I, shoot the standard length 20 gauge shell.

I think that when magnum mania hit the rifle world it trickled over to the shotgun folks, thus the 3" magnums. I have never shot them in any gauge, even if shooting at ducks. I'm a 2 3/4 shell guy even with steel. If I ever shoot steel through my new Wingmaster 20 I'll probably shoot a 3" steel shell....if I decide to go duck hunting with a 20.

If the mag 20 is falling from favor then the 16 IMHO just might come roaring back. I hope so.

People have a harkening for the past. If they made a new Model A, I'd buy one, even without seat belts. Doesn't putt putting around in a Model A sound like fun? For the same reason, folks might harken after the 16. It would give us all another reason to buy a new gun. If they made a new strong damascus gun in 16 I'd buy one of those too.

If Connecticut Arms made a new damascus tube don't you think it'd sell like hotcakes? NOTHING shotgun IMO is more beautiful than a damascus barrel. I'd love to fit one into my 97.