Chamber Length

[Mark Riessen]

Need a bit of help. Can some one tell me if guns made in Meriden ever had 2 3/4 " chambers ? I'm aware that some of the later guns made in Ilion had the longer chambers but was not sure if or when any change was made in Meridan ? As always thanks for any and all help or info.

[Daryl Corona]

I have an 1892 12ga., 32" DH Dam., with a factory letter showing it was ordered with 2 3/4" chambers and 3 1/2lb trigger pulls, a 1904 20ga. with letter and 2 7/8" chambers and a number of 12ga. and 28ga. ordered with 2 5/8" chambers from the early to mid 1920's.

[Dave Noreen]

By and large Parker Bros. had the policy of holding chambers 1/8 inch shorter than the intended shell. This remained even into the Remington years, see pages 164 to 169 of the book The Parker Story for the Remington era specification sheets. Semantics really come into play on this. If a customer requested that his/her gun be chambered for 3-inch shells, the gun would be delivered with 2 7/8 inch chambers. If the customer ordered "3-inch chambers" supposedly that is what the customer would get.

Long shells have been around just about as long as cartridge shotguns have been around. In my 1903 UMC catalogue there were 12-gauge paper shells 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch. The 16-gauge was available in 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. The 20-gauge was offered in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. In those days the "standard" 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge, 2 9/16 inch 16-gauge and 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shells carried a slightly milder maximum load than the 2 3/4 inch and longer shells. The advantage of the 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch shells was more and better wadding for a better gas seal which many serious Pigeon shooters thought to be an advantage. The heaviest loads offered in the 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shells were 2 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder pushing 7/8 ounce of shot, or 18 grains of Ballistite or Infallible dense smokeless powder pushing the same 7/8 ounce of shot. In the 2 3/4 inch 20-gauge case, one could get 2 1/2 drams bulk smokeless powder or 20 grains of Infallible or Ballistite dense smokeless powder, but still pushing 7/8 ounce of shot. The 3-inch 20-gauge shells for the famous Widgeon Duck Club Parker Bros. guns and the J. Stevens A & T Co. No. 200 pump guns carried these 7/8 ounce loads, but more wadding.

These are the shells a Parker Bros. 20-gauge, chambered for 3-inch shells, during at least the first quarter of the 20th Century would have been made for --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/20-gauge3-inchRem-UMCArrow.jpg

Same load in a 2 7/8 inch shell --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Rem-UMC/20gaArrow27801.jpg

And, the same load from Peters Cartridge Co. --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Peters%20Cartridge%20Co/PetersPremier3-inch20-gauge.jpg

[Dean Romig]

Parker guns in 12 and 16 gauge that were made to shoot paper hulls generally had 2 5/8" or 2 9/16" chambers with conical forcing cones. They were chambered this way in the belief that by doing so a better gas seal was created where the forward 1/8" or so of the paper hull would be pinched in the cone as it opened upon firing.

[charlie cleveland]

love those old boxes... charlie

[Pete Lester]

Where are the 2 3/4" chambered 10ga guns?

[charlie cleveland]

a good question... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

If someone ordered a gun with 2 3/4" chambers, ten or another gauge, that is what he got. Parker Brothers did not seem to dispute anyone's preference when honoring an order.

[Pete Lester]

Bill my point is that if Parker did deliberately (rather than "market" such information) make chamber lengths 1/8" shorter than the intended shell there is little evidence I have seen of that in 10 gauge where far fewer options for shell length were available. My question is, where are the 2 1/2" 10ga guns (for 2 5/8") and 2 3/4" for the 2 7/8" shells. All the guns I have seen for myself measured a true 2 7/8".

We all know there is little harm in shooting a slightly longer shell than the chamber length. We also know there was some advertising of a benefit to holding chambers 1/8" short. We also know there were a lack of standards and many options in the 12, 16 and 20 gauge shell length. However we also know Parker Brothers were very good at their marketing and I still believe guns were chambered for a specific length shell.

[Mark Landskov]

Here is a box of 2-3/4" 10 gauge. It is the only one I have ever seen. I wonder if there were actually 10 gauge chambers out there at 2-3/4", or if these were for the 2-5/8" chamber (taking into account Parker's policy on shorter chambers).

[Bill Murphy]

Although we have seen Parker drawings and hang tags that show chambers 1/8" shorter than the shells meant to be fired in those chambers, there is a factory chart of chamber lengths, dated 1920, that shows chambers of nominal shell length. This chart is in Volume 2 or TPS in the Barrels, Bores, and Chambers chapter.

[Bill Murphy]

Mark, that is a wonderful box of Canucks. I have that same box in BB size shot in my ten gauge collection, a gift from my friend Claudio Opacek.

[Mark Landskov]

I wish I could afford to collect boxes! When I see a nice box photo on the internet, I download it for reference against my collection of singles. It is nice to be able to see what a specimen came in when new.

[Dave Noreen]

This kind of question gets harder to answer as every year goes by and we don't know with any certainty what has been done to these old guns over the last century, or just last week for that matter. Do we have any idea as to when this "policy" of holding chambers 1/8 inch shorter than the intended shell began? I only own a few Parker Bros. doubles. My 1894 vintage 3-frame NH-Grade has chambers that measure a true 2 7/8 inch. My Father's 1902 vintage 2-frame VH-Grade 12-gauge has chambers that measure a true 2 3/4 inch. My 1930 vintage 0-frame VH-Grade 20-gauge has chambers that measure 2 3/8 inch for the 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shells.

I own quite a few Ansley H. Fox guns. In going through and checking them I find the 12-gauge guns I own that were made between 1906 and 1912 all have 2 3/4 inch chambers. In the guns made from 1913 on into the 1930s I find mostly 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge chambers, 2 7/16 inch 16-gauge chambers and 20-gauge chambers a strong 2 3/8 inch. I own a 1920 vintage 20-gauge AE-Grade that letters "Chamber for 2 3/4 inch shells" and it has 2 5/8 inch chambers.

It would be interesting to check the chamber lengths of some of the few Parker Bros. 10-gauge guns made between WW-I and WW-II.

[wayne goerres]

This makes me wonder if part of the chambering differences are do to factory tolorances. Back 100 years ago most gun manufactures made their own reamers in house. There is no way of knowing how many times they used a reamer. granted 1/8in is a lot for tolorances, who knows.

[Christopher Piercey]

My 1932 Trojan has 2 3/4" chambers. I'm prolly gonna take it pheasant hunting next weekend

[Dave Noreen]

But, did it leave Meriden with 2 3/4 inch chambers or were they lengthened sometime in the last 80 years?

[Christopher Piercey]

It was rebarreled into a 20 gauge from a 16, so I have no idea