The new crow killer - Remington 1900

[Pete Lester]

Here are some pictures to the latest addition to the anti crow gun arsenal. This gun followed me home from the Kittery Trading Post after looking at the 10ga Daly and I thought it was a great deal for under $300, fluid steel and ejectors to boot! The dimensions are also perfect for me. I really like the Rem 1894 and 1900 shotguns. The Remington doubles are under appreciated IMO.

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[Dave Noreen]

Looks like a great Crow gun. A 1907 vintage gun according to the serial number chronology in Charles Semmer's book Remington Double Shotguns.

I've never see one stamped MOD on the barrel lug like that. Usually there was the pellet count for each barrel's test pattern on the lug. Remington Arms Co. stamped the actual pellet counts of their test patterns on the rear barrel lug of their Model 1889 hammer doubles and their Model 1894 and 1900 hammerless doubles. If the number is three digits, that is the count, if the number is two digits a leading 3 is implied. From surviving hang-tags we know the standard load they used to target 12-gauge guns was 1 1/4 ounces of #8 going 511 pellets to the load. My 12-gauge KE-Grade Model 1900 is stamped 33 on the left and 24 on the right. That would be 333/511 = 65% left and 324/511 = 64% right, or about improved modified in both barrels. The chokes measure .027" in both barrels of that gun. Looks like your gun is 369 for the left barrel 369/511 = 72% or full choke, and MOD for the right.

[Pete Lester]

Thanks for the info Dave. I think it will be a nice gun in the field for me given the fit. Somebody got the idea to cover all the wood and the receiver in lacquer. I am hoping it will clean up with some lacquer thinner. The checkering looks strong underneath it. The ejectors are binding on each other so when a single barrel is fired the empty is poorly ejected. With a little work they will operate just fine too. The gun didn't really see a lot of use but didn't see much care either.

[Frank Cronin]

Looks like you have there Pete a nice honest Remington in great shape and you can't beat the price either from KTP. What loads are you going to use?

Question for Dave: There are two numbers stamped on the watertable. One is the serial number on one side but what is the # for on the other? Great information on the earlier post by the way.

[charlie cleveland]

ive learned a lot on this post for sure...pete nice gun i too like the remington 94 s and 1900 but i really like the 94 ive got a remington 94 b grade with ejectors and ordnance steel barrels 26 inch barrels a real bird gun...hope you slay a thousand crows with the remy... charlie

[Pete Lester]

Looks like you have there Pete a nice honest Remington in great shape and you can't beat the price either from KTP. What loads are you going to use?

Scott and I shot a few trap targets with it and it broke them with authority using 7/8 of 8's. For shooting crows I like 1 1/8 of #6 and about 1145 fps or 1 ounce of #6 at 1200 fps reloads using Green Dot powder.

[Pete Lester]

OK, I am wondering what the collective experience with Remington double guns is. Is the top lever return spring an achilles heel? Perhaps both guns sat unused for too long? First day out with the 1894 10ga it broke, 3rd day out with 1900 and it let go. Still like the gun a lot due to it's fit. Off to the Smith.

[Dave Noreen]

Hundred plus year old top-lever springs break. I've only had one break, in my 1909 vintage KE-Grade 16-gauge. My Father shot a pair of AE-Grades, a 12- and a 16-gauge. In cleaning out his house I found a small envelope with a broken top-lever spring and a couple of new ones.

[charlie cleveland]

pete i think you just had a run of bad luck... cant waiut till you get them guns back from the smith...really waiting to year how that 94 10 ga works on them crows... charlie

[Pete Lester]

pete i think you just had a run of bad luck... cant waiut till you get them guns back from the smith...really waiting to year how that 94 10 ga works on them crows... charlie

I guess I have had a run of bad luck, they do seem to be nice guns. Sorry to not be more clear, the Rem 1894 B grade 10ga broke the top lever return spring on day one in the field back in Feb '11. The Smith fixed it and I got it back about 3 weeks later. I had a good shoot that day in spite of the problem, I got 15 crows for 28 shots with it per my record of the day. I have always shot my Parker NH 10ga a little better which I think is due to a better fitting stock. This summer I had the Remington bent up a little so it is now close to the same dimensions as the NH. The Remmy is in such high condition I tend to use it less in the field. I dropped the 1900 off at the Smith's today and hopefully I'll get it back as quickly as he returned the '94 10 bore. I would buy another Remington if I saw one that appealed to me, what are the odds it would happen to the next one???????

[Pete Lester]

My Remington 1900 is back home from the Smith with a new top lever spring. I used some lacquer thinner along with a toothbrush and it cleaned up very nice. A little bit of Tru-Oil and the gun looks a LOT better than it does in the earlier pictures. Looking forward to knocking down some crows with it.

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[Frank Cronin]

Looks great Pete! Hope to see it next time I'm up at Major Waldrons.

[charlie cleveland]

funny how a little elbow grease makes a gun look better... charlie

[Pete Lester]

funny how a little elbow grease makes a gun look better... charlie

and the knockabout shoots pretty good too. It's a better trap gun then a skeet gun, broke a 25 straight first time at trap with it, 49x50 for the evening tonight. Look out crows (maybe) :)

[Richard Flanders]

I have a pretty nice 12ga Remington mod 1887 twist bbl hammer gun that is choked tight and breaks clays wayyy out there. I've had no issues with it other than one hammer screw keeps backing out. I have to make a special little punch to get in there and make the square end of the shaft fit the square hole in the hammer a bit tighter. It's a well made gun as far as I can tell. Vintage is 1895.

[Pete Lester]

I have a pretty nice 12ga Remington mod 1887 twist bbl hammer gun that is choked tight and breaks clays wayyy out there. I've had no issues with it other than one hammer screw keeps backing out. I have to make a special little punch to get in there and make the square end of the shaft fit the square hole in the hammer a bit tighter. It's a well made gun as far as I can tell. Vintage is 1895.

Richard I am still learning about Remington double guns, I believe the last model of hammer gun they made was the Model 1889.

[Richard Flanders]

I think you're right. Mine was made in 1895 if I remember correctly. I'm not home to check that. It was quite the rusty mess inside when I got it but cleaned up rather nicely. I posted a set of pictures on the forum of the cleaning operation and of the repair I did on one of the main springs.

[Steve McCarty]

Scott and I shot a few trap targets with it and it broke them with authority using 7/8 of 8's. For shooting crows I like 1 1/8 of #6 and about 1145 fps or 1 ounce of #6 at 1200 fps reloads using Green Dot powder.

Are you going to clean up the wood? I don't always do that, but if it is bad enough, I strip the stock and forearm, restain the put on some Murphy's oil.

I don't know if that hurts the value or not, but I don't like really rough wood.

That is a very nice gun. You can see it's Parker heritage.

Oh, as for shooting crows. They are smarter than mere humans. I can never get close enough to pop then with a shotgun. I lay off at 300 to even 400 yds and bang away with a 222.

[Pete Lester]

Crow season is pretty much over, the birds have moved through and the 2nd half of waterfowl season is now open. The Remington knockabout did turn out to be a real good crow killer as I took 372 of them with 592 shots on the days when it got it's turn to go in the field. Remington made some nice functional double guns.

[Steve McCarty]

Crow season is pretty much over, the birds have moved through and the 2nd half of waterfowl season is now open. The Remington knockabout did turn out to be a real good crow killer as I took 372 of them with 592 shots on the days when it got it's turn to go in the field. Remington made some nice functional double guns.

Whoa! There was a famous Lakota (I think he was a Lakota.) named Crow Killer and you deserve the handle too! Of course the Indian was killing a different kind of Crow, but still.......

[Mark Brady]

I agree about the Remington doubles being under rated. I own two 1900's one is a trap gun (ejectors and no safety), an 1882, and I just picked up an 1889 that looks like it just came out of the factory and is not restored. I bought the 1889 for $450.00 proving you can still get a deal on a good side by side.

[Pete Lester]

I agree about the Remington doubles being under rated. I own two 1900's one is a trap gun (ejectors and no safety), an 1882, and I just picked up an 1889 that looks like it just came out of the factory and is not restored. I bought the 1889 for $450.00 proving you can still get a deal on a good side by side.

I was aware that Remington made a model 1894 straight grip trap gun (F grade) but I was not aware of the Model 1900 version. If you could post some pictures I would love to see it.

[Rodney Short]

i have 2 rem 94's both grade A damascus, one ejector one extractor, both are excellent field guns, one i have is first yr production, the other is 1901 vintage according to charles semners book, they are very under rated guns, i hunt with english and american made guns, i consider the remingtons equals to the english guns,

[charlie cleveland]

i too have a remington 1894 its a b grade with factory ordance steel barrels that are 26 inch factory length with ejectors..its just a good shooter but i too would put a remington 94 with the best of shotguns.... charlie

[Daryl Corona]

It's not a crow killer but it's a nice M1900 16ga. w/ejectors, 28" nice original finish. She's choked M/F so I don't know what she can kill but it will be fun trying. Really nice quality for a modest price.

[Pete Lester]

It's not a crow killer but it's a nice M1900 16ga. w/ejectors, 28" nice original finish. She's choked M/F so I don't know what she can kill but it will be fun trying. Really nice quality for a modest price.

I am sure you will enjoy it Daryl, have fun.

Here is an interesting article on the Remington Doubles.

http://www.bigfivehq.com/wolves3.htm

[Richard Flanders]

I have an 1889 Rem damascus hammer gun with tight chokes that is great long range killer. Very nicely made also. I like it a lot. It was quite the cleanup job when I got it. There's a series of pics in an old post of mine. I've had no mechanical issues with it at all except that one hammer screw keeps backing out. I have to make a custom punch that will allow me to peen the square shaft back out to get the hammer to fit tighter to remedy that.

[Steve McCarty]

I have an 1889 Rem damascus hammer gun with tight chokes that is great long range killer. Very nicely made also. I like it a lot. It was quite the cleanup job when I got it. There's a series of pics in an old post of mine. I've had no mechanical issues with it at all except that one hammer screw keeps backing out. I have to make a custom punch that will allow me to peen the square shaft back out to get the hammer to fit tighter to remedy that.

How about you wrap the screw with a little plumber's tape? Might work. I have shimmed loose hammers to tighten them up. Works okay.

[Mark Brady]

Mr. Books

My Remington trap gun may be a 1894, I've always had a hard time telling the difference between them. My camera is down right now, but I'll list the info on the water table and barrels, maybe you or someone could help me figure this out.Serial #331632 on all parts, Water table is also marked 177, 8, a double stamped patent date of Oct 30 1894. The lug is stamped at the front with 10 over 83 over P7. The rear of the lug is stamped with a 7 and 323, 321 which I assume is shot size and pellet count. Each barrel is marked with three diagonal lines over K, over A. Any help with this would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

[Pete Lester]

A serial number in the 300,000 range would make it a model 1900, model 1894's had serial numbers in the 100,000 range. The biggest difference between the two models is the '94 has a Purdey style forend latch and the 1900 uses a Baker style snap on latch similiar to the Trojan. Dave Noreen knows quite a bit about Remington doubles hopefully he will come along soon and give some more insight.

Some information Dave posted awhile ago on the Remington forums:

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2491

[Dave Noreen]

Looks like you've pretty much covered what I know!! The only change may be that -- Charles G. Semmer's book Remington Double Shotguns is now available from Cote. As of publication of Volume Twenty-Three, Issue 3, of The Double Gun & Single Shot Journal, Autumn 2012, 248 copies of Remington Double Shotguns remain, $49 plus $10 S&H, 800-447-1658.

Only 16-gauge DEO-Grade to surface so far --

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[Pete Lester]

Dave, did the Model 1900 come in a "trap" version?

[Dave Noreen]

Not that I've ever heard of. When this lower priced hammerless double gun was introduced, it was offered as the K-Grade with plain extractors and Remington Steel barrels and the KED-Grade with ejectors and two-stripe Damascus barrels. By the 1903-04 Remington Arms Co. catalogue they added the KD-Grade, plain extractors and Two-stripe Damascus barrels. By the 1906 Remington Arms Co. catalogue they added the KE-Grade, with Remington steel barrels and ejectors. Up to this time the Model 1900s all had flat ribs and plain half-pistol grip stocks that were smooth around the head. In the 1906 catalogue some of the Model 1900s begin to be shown with profiled stock cheeks like the Model 1894s. Those four grades, K-, KE-, KD- and KED-Grade, all with half-pistol grip stocks and slim snap-on/off forearms were the Model 1900 offerings until Remington Arms Co. dumped their double gun business in early 1910.

Remington Arms Co. began to specifically tailor guns for competitve shooters with these Pigeon Gun offerings in their 1902 catalogues --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Remington/1902PigeonGunofferings.jpg

With 1902 being the last Grand American Handicap at live birds, they changed to this in the 1903-04 and 1904-05 catalogues --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Remington/1903-04and1904-05TrapGunofferings.jpg

By 1906 they added the lower priced FE Trap Gun and this was the offerings in both 1906 catalogues, the 1907, 1908, 1908-09 and 1909 catalogues --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Remington/1906TrapGunofferings01.jpg

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From a March 1907 magaze ad --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Remington/TheGunBehindtheMan.jpg

[Mark Brady]

Thanks for all the input folks. From your answers it seems I do have a 1900 Remington trap gun. It's an ejector gun with the straight English style stock and no safety. The serial number puts it into the model 1900 range. I'll have to order Semmer's book now that I own 4 Remington doubles. I started with a Parker Trojan 16 gauge when I was 13 (I still have it) and 53 years later I've somehow accumulated about 60 side by sides. Parkers, Lefevers, Bakers, an L.C. Smith, a Fox, lots of Ithacas of various models and grades, as well as English, Belgian, German and French guns. It truly is an incurable disease.

[Steve McCarty]

Thanks for all the input folks. From your answers it seems I do have a 1900 Remington trap gun. It's an ejector gun with the straight English style stock and no safety. The serial number puts it into the model 1900 range. I'll have to order Semmer's book now that I own 4 Remington doubles. I started with a Parker Trojan 16 gauge when I was 13 (I still have it) and 53 years later I've somehow accumulated about 60 side by sides. Parkers, Lefevers, Bakers, an L.C. Smith, a Fox, lots of Ithacas of various models and grades, as well as English, Belgian, German and French guns. It truly is an incurable disease.

Fantastic! Now you have your work cut out for you. You've got to take out your camera and set up a little photo studio and snap pictures of each and every gun and write a bit about it and forward it here!

You've got a wonderful collection and something to be proud of.

Congratulations!

[Mark Brady]

As soon as business slacks off a bit I'll do that. I fix guns as a small business and this is my busy time of the year.

[ed good]

recently saw the nature channel program:

"the secret life of crows"

felt guilty and sad for the few crows ah killed when i was a young lad, dat new no better...

how olt are u?

[Mike Shepherd]

Ed these guns were built for blood sport. Almost all the Parker, Fox, and Ithaca side by sides were built for killing birds for sport. Many if not most of our members take these guns out and use them in blood sports. If our posts about blood sports make you feel bad please don't let our fondness for you make you feel obligated to keep coming here.

[ed good]

mike: one of these days you just may grow up...

[Mike Shepherd]

recently saw the nature channel program:

"the secret life of crows"

felt guilty and sad for the few crows ah killed when i was a young lad, dat new no better...

how olt are u?

Ed these guns were built for blood sport. Almost all the Parker, Fox, and Ithaca side by sides were built for killing birds for sport. Many if not most of our members take these guns out and use them in blood sports. If our posts about blood sports make you feel bad please don't let our fondness for you make you feel obligated to keep coming here.

[ed good]

mike: it might be worth while to have a discussion about blood sports, but, it does not seem to be appropriate to this thread nor to this forum. perhaps we could continue this elsewhere?

[Mike Shepherd]

recently saw the nature channel program:

"the secret life of crows"

felt guilty and sad for the few crows ah killed when i was a young lad, dat new no better...

how olt are u?

Ed these guns were built for blood sport. Almost all the Parker, Fox, and Ithaca side by sides were built for killing birds for sport. Many if not most of our members take these guns out and use them in blood sports. If our posts about blood sports make you feel bad please don't let our fondness for you make you feel obligated to keep coming here.

[Pete Lester]

recently saw the nature channel program:

"the secret life of crows"

felt guilty and sad for the few crows ah killed when i was a young lad, dat new no better...

how olt are u?

Would you have felt any better if had been the secret life of Bob White Quail or Canada Geese or maybe a Walt Disney film like Bambi?

How is your post germaine to qualities of the Remington 1900 and it's use in hunting? Do you believe your post brings value to the forum? Do you think it is a respectful post for a firearm site and a firearm site that occasionally deals with hunting? If you take issue with something I do use the PM feature please and we can discuss it, don't take it public.

[Steve McCarty]

Life, to a carnavor is all about killing and eating. There is no moral imperative. Crows are a pest, but really there is no requirement to justify the killing of any game. I don't eat coyotes or feral cats, but I do, or have, killed them. At one time I did my very best to kill as many humans of a certain persuasion as I could. One can, of course become a monk, or a Hindu and eschew killing of all kinds, that's okay by me. But if a nice fat cock bird bursts out of the long grass I'm going to bust'em.

[ed good]

steve: we all need to reach a balance where we are at peace with ourselves and with those we wish to be at peace with...the trick is maintaining that peace, particularly when guilt rears its ever present head...

[ed good]

books: germaine? is it really necessary to bring the na zis into this?

you started this thread with a reference to your new "crow killer".

you did not say anything about crow hunting, as i recall.

course now, we can get into a discussion about the difference between hunting and killing, if you like? but not here. it just dont seem propriate...

[Mike Shepherd]

ed you say you don't think it is appropriate to discuss it here yet you started this discussion about the morality of blood sports by giving Mr. Lester an elbow in the ribs for shooting crows. Then you say again you don't think this is the place to have a discussion and in the same paragraph try to differentiate killing from hunting.

I think it is hilarious that a double gun dealer is anti-hunting. Do your require that your prospective purchasers agree not to hunt with the gun?

[ed good]

mike: i am not anti hunting. however, i do take issue with those who kill just for the pleasure of it. humans, cats and weasels come to mind... has it occurred to you that very few other creatures besides us humans seem to kill for fun? ever wonder why that is?

and, i do encourage shooting clay birds with vintage double guns...great sport!

[Mike Shepherd]

mike: i am not anti hunting. however, i do take issue with those who kill just for the pleasure of it. some humans and most weasels come to mind.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5999&highlight=bleed

charlie: may i suggest that you hunt less and shoot more. clay birds do not bleed.

I say again I think it is hilarious that a double gun dealer is anti-hunting. And I repeat my question: Do you require buyers to agree not to hunt with the double guns you sell them. Would seem hypocritical to sell the means while you disapprove of the end.

[Steve McCarty]

steve: we all need to reach a balance where we are at peace with ourselves and with those we wish to be at peace with...the trick is maintaining that peace, particularly when guilt rears its ever present head...

Yep, Ed. You said it better than I can.

[Steve McCarty]

mike: i am not anti hunting. however, i do take issue with those who kill just for the pleasure of it. humans, cats and weasels come to mind... has it occurred to you that very few other creatures besides us humans seem to kill for fun? ever wonder why that is?

and, i do encourage shooting clay birds with vintage double guns...great sport!

I believe that many animals kill either for the fun of it, cats chasing mice for instance, or for practice; as well as for food. In the natural world, ie killing by animals others than humans, is never questioned. We are just smart animals and killing is a part of higher life.

I love attending bull fights, but have only been to two. I've also been to many cock fights, but never in the US. Blood sports? Yep. Murderous? Sure. Thrilling? Yes. Does it bother me? Not in the least. Does the fact that i do not mind the killing in bull fights or cockfites make me cruel? Not to me, but I'm sure it does in some people's eyes. Tough.

If people don't like participating in blood sports then don't. No one is forcing them. However, if they ever get really, really hungry they'll change their tune. Even if the game is two legged with a crew cut.

[ed good]

mike: i started a new thread in the off topic section of this forum.

it is titled the mike and ed show. notice how i gave you top billing...

anyway, why dont we move it down there and stop trashing other peoples threads with off topic posts?

that way you can say the same thing over and over and i can respond again and again and we can have a wonderful time being redundant!

and steve, you can join us if you like, but with no billing for now...

[Mark Brady]

Wow, this took a weird turn.

[Mike Shepherd]

ed you make off topic anti-hunting posts on others' threads and then talk about staying on topic here. Quite a contradiction.

Back to your anti-hunting feelings:

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5999&highlight=bleed

charlie: may i suggest that you hunt less and shoot more. clay birds do not bleed.


recently saw the nature channel program:

"the secret life of crows"

felt guilty and sad for the few crows ah killed when i was a young lad, dat new no better...

how olt are u?

So as an anti-hunting double gun dealer how do you reconcile your guilt over shooting crows in your youth with selling double guns, some of which you know will be used to hunt?

[ed good]

mike: response will be found in the off topic forum, under the mike and ed show thread.

[Mike Shepherd]

ed you make off topic anti-hunting posts on others' threads and then talk about staying on topic here. Quite a contradiction.

Back to your anti-hunting feelings:

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5999&highlight=bleed

charlie: may i suggest that you hunt less and shoot more. clay birds do not bleed.


recently saw the nature channel program:

"the secret life of crows"

felt guilty and sad for the few crows ah killed when i was a young lad, dat new no better...

how olt are u?

So as an anti-hunting double gun dealer how do you reconcile your guilt over shooting crows in your youth with selling double guns, some of which you know will be used to hunt?

[ed good]

and now back to the original dual topics of this thread:


The new crow killer - Remington 1900

crow killing: go to utube. you will find videos about killing crows. anyone interested will not be disappointed.

Remington 1900: it has been my experience that these guns are very well made and reliable. they also sell for significantly less than other guns of similar vintage and quality. i believe the reason these fine guns are undervalued is that typically, they are heavier and not as well balanced as the big four.

[Mike Shepherd]

ed you make off topic anti-hunting posts on others' threads and then talk about staying on topic here. Quite a contradiction.

Back to your anti-hunting feelings:

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5999&highlight=bleed

charlie: may i suggest that you hunt less and shoot more. clay birds do not bleed.


recently saw the nature channel program:

"the secret life of crows"

felt guilty and sad for the few crows ah killed when i was a young lad, dat new no better...

how olt are u?

So as an anti-hunting double gun dealer how do you reconcile your guilt over shooting crows in your youth with selling double guns, some of which you know will be used to hunt?

[Mark Brady]

You're probably right Ed. I have a Joseph Lang 10 gauge trap/pigeon gun with 32 inch barrels that feels lighter and swings better than my Remington 1900 with 28 inch tubes. That being said, the Remingtons were made to compete with Bakers, Ithacas and others of the time. I don't know what my Lang cost in 1892 but it was a hell of a lot more than the Remington.

[ed good]

mark: the others of the times?... circa 1900...most notably, parkers and smiths. and least we forget the lefever lefevers...course when you interject european guns into the equation, then everything changes...there is just no comparison.

its as if we were talkin about classic 1960's era american sports cars and someone asked: so how do they compare to the european sports cars?

[ed good]

anybody lookin for a nice 1900? take a look at auctionarms item #11590178.

[Steve McCarty]

mike: i started a new thread in the off topic section of this forum.

it is titled the mike and ed show. notice how i gave you top billing...

anyway, why dont we move it down there and stop trashing other peoples threads with off topic posts?

that way you can say the same thing over and over and i can respond again and again and we can have a wonderful time being redundant!

and steve, you can join us if you like, but with no billing for now...

I'm crushed....

[Mike Shepherd]

boys the new year is here...my new year solution is to hunt and shoot more than i did last year...lords willing im hoping all of us stay healthy and fit and give us a good year my best to all.... charlie

charlie: may i suggest that you hunt less and shoot more. clay birds do not bleed.
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5999&highlight=bleed


recently saw the nature channel program:

"the secret life of crows"

felt guilty and sad for the few crows ah killed when i was a young lad, dat new no better...

how olt are u? http://parkerguns.org/forums/showpost.php?p=88936&postcount=37

Would sure like ed to explain to us how someone with such gentle sensibilities can sell double guns. Seems to me like he would either quit selling double guns and join PETA or sell double guns and cease making public anti-hunting posts on double gun BBSs like this one. I guess only time will tell if ed makes peace with himself and joins PETA or sells out his conscience and continues to sell double guns to hunters, because it is pretty obvious he isn't going to answer to my question here.

[John Dallas]

Ed's posted information says he lives in New Hampshire. Has anyone ever met Ed, or seen him at a shooting event? Can't be that far to get to one of the numerous New England shoots. Where you been Ed?

[ed good]

big d: you sum kinda weirdo or watt?

just noticed something...what ever happened to " i before e, except after c"? is this an exception?

[scott kittredge]

recently saw the nature channel program:

"the secret life of crows"

felt guilty and sad for the few crows ah killed when i was a young lad, dat new no better...

how olt are u?

WOW, this is sad, you don't like killing crows but you sold pete a VH 12 ga few years ago that he killed hundreds of crow with,sooo if you get money for selling crow killing tools thats ok. if you beleive in not killing crows, than why are you selling the tools to do it with? i am 52 "olt" now:shock: mybe when i get "older " i will see the light. i hope not i LOVE CROW HUNTING !!:) yes i do kill them too. killed 826 for 2012 season , next year i will try for a 1000 bird year. scott

[ed good]

10 BORE: did you take a look at the crow killin videos on utube? if not, you really should.

[Mike Shepherd]

But ed you are anti-hunting also:

boys the new year is here...my new year solution is to hunt and shoot more than i did last year...lords willing im hoping all of us stay healthy and fit and give us a good year my best to all.... charlie

charlie: may i suggest that you hunt less and shoot more. clay birds do not bleed.

Do you have any anti-hunting videos on UTube you want us to watch?

[Pete Lester]

I think everyone who has been on this site for any period of time knows the at I enjoy crow hunting and find it a great way to get a lot of wing shooting on live game with Parker doubles.

I have strayed off the path, shot and sold a Fox Sterlingworth, a Baker, a Stevens an now have a couple of Remingtons that I enjoy.

There is a lot of history in the old doubles, some day perhaps I'll have an Ithaca or a Lefever. They are all interesting to me in their own way. Some are better than others.

The Remington 1900 is not a Parker, it is not as finely built, but it sure was a bargain and it sure shoots well for me and I like it. Owning and shooting a double such as the 1900 makes me realize and appreciate the care and quality that went into a Trojan, and it's easy to forget about the quality in a Trojan when it is contrasted against V's through A's on this site.

This site is good way to learn about Parkers, other doubles and even something about hunting (see hunting with Parker forum).

Hunting may not be about the kill but without the kill there is no hunt. None of us need to shoot an animal for subsistence. Eating what you shoot does not justify a kill. Many species are and have been killed because they are a predator and or a nuisance. Crows fall into both categories. They are prolific and they are managed with seasons and regulations. I enjoy shooting them, obviously you do not.

Ed, I have no idea what motivates you to make the posts that you do and in the manner that you do. You write in a manner as if you are illiterate but I am pretty sure you are not. An attempt at humor I guess but often it is using humor to mask an attack on another. I don't appreciate that and frankly I think you ruined a good thread on a "find" that I have enjoyed and shared with others.

I don't think anti-hunting sentiment has a place in the PGCA forums any more than anti-gun sentiment has here. To me it seems you enjoy stirring a pot, guess what so do I at times, but I know this is not the place for it.

[Mike Shepherd]

Pete I certainly agree with you. When I hunt pheasant, bobwhite, sharptails etc... with my Brittanys it is a bloodsport and about the hunt, not the food. The kill is an integral part of the hunt. I also field trial my dogs in the National Shoot To Retrieve Assocation. The picture to the left was taken at one of their field trials. This is a competition for bird dogs that includes the shooting and retrieving of pen raised birds. This is also bloodsport. I pass shoot pigeons. They also shoot birds for some AKC events as I have gunned for them.

But ed is trying to cut the sport shooting of crows out from the herd and I want him to take on the whole herd.

ed there is a thread over on the Doublegun BBS about the ethics of competition pigeon shooting. I think the audience for your anti-hunting anti-crow shooting arguments will certainly be larger there than here. Of course the probability of offending a prospective purchaser of your products will be larger too.

Best,

Mike

[Mark Brady]

My two cents are probably not needed but here goes; I no longer hunt myself, but I don't object to anyone else doing so. Some of my best memories are of being in the field and woods with my grandfather and father hunting grouse, pheasant and cottontails. Me with my Parker Trojan 16 gauge, my dad with a Remington 11-48 16 gauge and my grandfather with his Grade 3 Ithaca N.I.D. We killed a lot of game and we ate it all. The only critters my grandfather and I hunted for sport were woodchucks, as the local farmers here in the Hudson Valley of N.Y. were plagued by them. I guess it was a tour of duty in Vietnam that made me loose interest in the kill, but I never lost interest in double guns and still shoot sporting clays, and trap.

[ed good]

pete: did you bother to watch the video about the secret life of crows? i doubt it? who knows perhaps you will discover info about them that will make your crow killing experiences even more enjoyable? following is a link:

video.pbs.org/video/1621910826/

and i certainly agree with you about the remington 1900 not being a parker...but then what else is?

[Pete Lester]

Ed it seems you can't help yourself when it comes to insults i.e. did I see the video? "I doubt it?"

Nice dodge on my other points BTW.

The PBS video came out 2 years ago and I saw it then. It was interesting but far from accurate scientific reporting and depiction of crow behavior.

In it they claim that a crow can see/find danger and go back to a group of crows and tell them about it. Put that scientist in my blind and I will show him that is a big load of crow poop. Birds that have just been shot at will often turn and come back for more if other crows are inbound to the call and decoys (so much for sounding the alarm or even learning that gunfire was a danger signal). They also stated if a crow sees a dead crow they will come in silent, sit in a nearby tree and not make a sound, then take off without making a sound, WRONG! Every time I have a dead crow that has dropped outside the decoys and out of range every crow that flies by circles it cawing it's head off and almost always comes into my decoys where there are usually plastic decoys and more dead crows mixed in only to get close enough to get shot.

The show is entertainment with a science veneer and factually inaccurate.

[ed good]

pete: as to the video, i particularly like the part about the crow in new caledonia that uses multiple tools to obtain food.

what were your other two points?

have you ever considered killing crows with an air rifle? requires far more hunting skills than just calling them in and then shooting them with a shotgun. some of the utube videos previously suggested feature stalking and ambushing crows with an air rifle.

no insult intended.

[Pete Lester]

I am glad you found something to enjoy in it. As I pointed out an avid crow hunter would see it and have some skepticism about the facts presented. I don't believe I mentioned two other points that I did not explain.

I am not interested in hunting with an air rifle, or with any rifle on any game frankly. I enjoy shotguns and wingshooting. The crows provide a long season, no daily limit and can be a challenging aerial target. Many farmers appreciate them being shot.

The 1900 I bought is well suited to their pursuit with it's good fit, 30" barrels, tight chokes and ejectors and I learned more about the Remington double guns as a result.

[Mike Shepherd]

But ed you are anti-hunting also:

boys the new year is here...my new year solution is to hunt and shoot more than i did last year...lords willing im hoping all of us stay healthy and fit and give us a good year my best to all.... charlie

charlie: may i suggest that you hunt less and shoot more. clay birds do not bleed.

Do you have any anti-hunting videos on UTube you want us to watch?

[Eric Eis]

Guys Ed is baiting you....:cuss: Don't respond and maybe he and his torch will go to another site since he ads no value here with his posts.

[ed good]

me, baiting? day, i do believe that if you read all of mike's redundant posts here, you will also perhaps conclude, as i have, that mike is trying desperately to bait me, but alas, to no avail...

and day, please explain to us all, what does your off the wall post here, have to do with crow killing and remington model 1900 shotguns? which is after all the twin subjects of this thread.

[Steve McCarty]

Crow shooting must be an Eastern US event. I've never even heard of anyone shooting crows out west, cept with a rifle. Sounds like fun to me though.

[Mike Shepherd]

The civic clubs in the small towns in this area used to put on crow hunts as a fund raiser. Start in the late evening on a full moon at a roost. Lots of fun.

ed is baiting us. That is what he does. He frequently makes some troll remark that is off-topic. Then lectures the responders to the remark in a sefl-righteous toned post about staying on topic. He is just like a 12 year old boy that runs a stick down the neighbor's fence to make their dogs bark. But he has mistakenly let his true beliefs show through his trolling. He really is anti-hunting and he isn't disputing it.

What a a paradox, an anti-hunting double gun dealer.