need info on 1902 D3 Parker

[Kelly Price]

I have come accross a 1902 D3 Parker Ser# 109528 Demascus steel, capped pistol grip, hammerless with skeleton but plate. Meriden Conn made

Looks to be all original. I need help on how to value gun for possible investment purchase. Any help with this would be great. Ball park value???

Thanks
K Price

[Dave Fuller]

Value is a function of condition. Original components are great but what kind of shape is it in? If the gun is in "as-new" condition it is worth five figures. If the barrels are cut, stock sawed off, checkering worn flat, screws buggered, case colors gone, engraving worn down, action lose, chambers reamed, rusty finish, pitted bores, cracked stock, or any other of a long list of common maladies, it might be worth $200. Can you describe the condition of the gun in more detail? How is the wood, the metal, the fit, and the finish? Unfortunately, this gun is not in the Serialization Book which gives the original configuration.

[John Liles]

Heel Destry, Heel! :duck:

[Dave Miles]

Heel Destry, Heel! :duck:


:nono:

[Kelly Price]

The gun is in great condition but NOT like new. Stock has some scratching, fit is solid, metal condition is very good but I did notice very slight scattered surface rust in the last inch or so inside barrels, checkering is also good. Also there is a round brass or bone?? inset on the bottom of the stock. I cannot tell for sure but there looks to be possible roman numerals hand carved in the inset??. If you give me an email I would be willing to send pics of the gun.

Again thank you
Kelly

[Harry Collins]

Kelly,

I will post the pictures for you hmcollins2@hotmail.com

Harry

[Harry Collins]

These are pictures of the Parker Kelly is interested in. Not a screw looks buggered. The barrels have been cut, but overall I think this is a nice looking DH. I think $700 is a fair price, then again I am out of the loop on price.

Harry

[Harry Collins]

a few more....

[Dave Suponski]

Harry,I agree $700.00 seems like a fair price.You say the barrels have been cut and they look that way to me also.The keels are still in place and we know that Parker cut barrels at the factory.What does the "book" say?How long is the choke constriction in the gun?

[Forrest Smith]

stock is cut too isn't it?

[Ed Blake]

That's a nice gun with non-buggered screws; it may never have been apart since it left the factory. But it is not an investment gun in that condition. It is a shooter, and would make a good project gun. What is the bore diameter? The ends of those cut barrels look thin. Those 1 1/2 frame damascus guns are light and need appropriate loads. I had one just like it and if I had to buy that one a price in the $700 to $900 range would be tolerable.

[Brian Dillard]

I bought two very similar last year. They were in a little better condition and in the book, I think I paid $1100-1300 each for them but again slightly better condition.

I agree that $700-900 is appropriate for this gun.

[Bill Murphy]

Sorry, no gun with cut barrels is a project gun. No money should be spent on a D Grade gun with cut barrels. However, the gun pictured is one beautiful gun to shoot and enjoy in its present condition which is just wonderful. A PGCA letter may tell you about the stock and barrels.

[Harry Collins]

Kelly,

Bill is right on the money. If you take this Parker home do nothing more than shoot the snot out of it.

Harry

[Kelly Price]

Harry

Many thanks to all of you with the help on this gun!! Especially Harry for taking the time to help me out. I knew this gun was nice but had no idea on value. The guy was asking around $3000 for it and I had no idea if that was good or bad for this gun. I am very happy you all gave me the information I needed. I would love to use this gun for birds and if he takes $700 than that is what I may do. It may not be investment grade but well worth a good upland shoot.


All the best and happy holidays to all of you sportsmen

Kelly Price
VT State Game Warden

[Bill Bolyard]

Kelly,

I see your a Vermont state game warden. I was wondering, How many hunters carrying Parkers have you given tickets, and how many with LC Smiths, Fox, autoloaders and pumps. Just curious

Bill

[Dean Romig]

Hello Kelly - What is your patrol district there in VT? I hunt Vermont almost exclusively in the Northeast Kingdom.
Dean

[Kelly Price]

Bill

I am not sure what the point of your question is?? However, I have never "yet" ticketed anyone upland game hunting or, as you implied, using high end shotguns. That covers the eight years on the job. The vast majority of violations during hunting season are big game violation involving illegal deer, bear, moose killings. At least for me. I have very few upland game violations because there is little quality upland habitat in the south east corner of VT. Thus, few hunters for upland game. We also do not stock pheasant like many other states.
I am from Western MA and grew up hunting upland game around that area. The habitat is better further south. However, other parts of VT have very good bird hunting as well as rabbit. As Dean touched on, Northern VT can produce very good grouse and woodcock hunting.

Dean

As you can see from the above reply to Bill I cover the south east corner of VT. The woodcock seem to have already come through but I do bust a few from time to time.

All the best and good luck in the woods.

K Price

[Dave Suponski]

Kelley. My brother and his wife live in South Newfane and my nephew and his wife live in Willmington.Does your area cover them? And you are right about upland game in that area.Nice area(actually all of VT is nice area) but not to many Pa,tridge.

[Bill Bolyard]

Kelly,

While working the Parker both at Pheasants forever convention in Madison Wisconsin I did a survey. after determining the person was a Parker owner I asked the question, do you drink scotch? Without exception they all answered yes, Ok it appears at face value to be a Wisconsin thing. My point is anyone that limits themselves to two shots typically is not someone that break's game laws. They have already made the decision that 2 birds with 2 shots is the highest achievement. I was just wondering what your observations have been, The members of this organization in my experience is, that they are conservationist first, gentlemen, historians and good guy's with a scotch problem.:smiley7:

[Kelly Price]

Dave

Yes, I cover Newfane but Wilmington is next district over.

[Kelly Price]

Bill

OK, I get what your asking now. YES, in my experience most double shooters always seem to be true sportsmen for the most part and law abiding. Now that DOES NOT imply that pump or auto loaders are not....!! But for some reason there is a true connection with many strict double shooters conservationism and following the game laws..?? I find most upland game hunters in general are law abiding. I have no opinion as for why this is.

All the best
Kelly

[Bill Bolyard]

Kelly,

I bet you also find the same true about men and women that use a fly rod.

Bill

[Bruce Day]

Kelly, you don't know my friend Bill. We have a little thing about not shooting the female quail out here. Well, Bill shot a couple anyway, said he couldn't tell. They don't have quail in Michigan, where he lives, but they have grouse and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that he shoots the females of that species also. So if he ever comes back east and winds up in Vermont, watch out for him and keep your citation book handy.

[Bill Bolyard]

Kelly,

You will notice Bruce holding a very rare Michigan Prairie Chicken, as a matter of fact they are now extinct.

Bill

[Richard Flanders]

Bruce: there are quail in Michigan, just not many I suspect. We used to hear them on our farm all summer. I remember hearing them daily in the late 50's and into the 60's until they took the bounty off fox. My sister has one that follows her around and sometimes sits on her foot as she hoes her garden and jumps off and grabs insects that get stirred up. I think there aren't many these days but there are a few. There's too many coons, possums, foxes and coyotes for upland birds to get too numerous these days. They have REALLY cleaned out the wild pheasants despite there being lots of good habitat.

[Kelly Price]

Bill

What I find is that women are just as talented at fly fishing as men. They also shoot better.

[Lee St.Clair]

Bill

What I find is that women are just as talented at fly fishing as men. They also shoot better.


:cheers::cheers:

[Francis Morin]

[QUOTE=Richard Flanders;8361]Bruce: there are quail in Michigan, just not many I suspect. We used to hear them on our farm all summer. I remember hearing them daily in the late 50's and into the 60's until they took the bounty off fox. My sister has one that follows her around and sometimes sits on her foot as she hoes her garden and jumps off and grabs insects that get stirred up. I think there aren't many these days but there are a few. There's too many coons, possums, foxes and coyotes for upland birds to get too numerous these days. They have REALLY cleaned out the wild pheasants despite there being lots of good habitat. We do have a "on the books" quail season here in Michigan, but the lowest tier of counties that border Ohio and Indiana are the only ones open, and few birds, mainly due to predators- My son-in-law and I do our part to control them: woodchucks (not a true predator) fox, raccoon, feral cats and coyotes. Opening Day of our firearm deer season Nov 15 2008- private 260 Centennial Farm in Mecosta County- from opening light until 11:30- from a ground blind I shot two coyotes with my Dad's older M70 in 30-06 scoped and with 180 grain Rem Core-Lokt rounds-there is a sheep ranch/farm adjacent, those two rascals never circled or checked the wind, even though that farm had some hunting pressure for 6 weeks of the preceedent bow season for deer- This Fall while squirrel hunting with a scoped Ruger BA and hollow points- sunny still early October afternoons I shot several raccons, possums and one dog Fox that almost walked right up to me-The lack of hunting pressure and NO Bounties has emboldened those predators-- and in our area, where 20 years ago the farms held some huntable populations of ringnecked pheasants, clean farming and pesticides have taken their toll-

I agree about most gentlemen and ladies who hunt upland birds and the usage of double guns (even those bulky Over and Unders I see: Ruger and Citoris--You can never say never, but as the confiscation of your shotgun for a violation is a possibility, perhaps that may be one of many salient factors in the "staying within the limit" and playing the game fairly while afield. As far as the character of the gunner however, let us not forget that the late Nash Buckingham started with a Winchester M1893 pumpgun (and his father Miles told him to only load it with two shells when partnered with someone using a double gun) and although in his prime years he used many fine doubles (Becker, M21- etc) in his twilight years he used some autoloaders as well.

As far as those of us who treasure our Parkers and the scotch whisky syndrome, I can't speak to that: George Dickel, Old Cabin Still, Early Times, Bushmills Black and Tullamore Dew are my favorite choices- on the rocks please- not a Kilt in that gathering- alas--

Finally, as my GHE 12 Project parker also had some numbers besides the @ frame size stamp on the lug, I noted that this 12 DH size 1 & 1/2 framed Parker also had a number 8 in smaller case stamped on the barrel lug. I am curious as to what that might mean..:rolleyes:

[Bill Murphy]

I see that Francis has not been talked into drinking the fifty dollar a fifth bourbon "koolaid". I don't know a lot about Cabin Still, but, some years ago, I had a customer who inflated my opinion of it. He would come into the store at all hours of the day and night, slip into the bourbon section, crank the lid off of a bottle of CS and take a long slow draw. He never changed brands, so I assumed he knew what he liked. He never stole a bottle and we never figured out who he was.

[Dean Romig]

Ye'll nae find a kilt on me, Laddie, fer I'm stickin' wi' me Sour-r-r-r Mash[/I]:nono:


Finally, as my GHE 12 Project parker also had some numbers besides the @ frame size stamp on the lug, I noted that this 12 DH size 1 & 1/2 framed Parker also had a number 8 in smaller case stamped on the barrel lug. I am curious as to what that might mean..:rolleyes:

There are several markings or stamps that we don't know the meaning of.

[Richard Flanders]

Thank you Francis.... finally someone else who likes G Dickel.... not as good as the Balvenie 12ry old single malt I was introduced to at the RGS shoot in Minnesota, but a good sippin' whiskey nonetheless.... and yes, definitely on the rocks...

[Francis Morin]

That brand of bourbon was the favorite of John Voelker- aka- Robert Traver, fly fisherman, lawyer, judge and curmudgeon first class from the UP- So, being an avid reader of his writings (I have the scarce "Danny And The Boys and Troubleshooter" and of course, Trout Madness) all great reads. John Traver's father Nick owned a brewery and a saloon- sent his son to the U of M and their fine Law School- great story in an older GSJ-- "Fishermen By Night" in which John tells of his Dad- and his "assigned duty" to make and refill the whiskey sours for Nick and his many friends- "A Doubler" was Nick Traver's term for a double shot, apparently. John served his Cabin Still whiskey sours in Mason Jars to his fishing pals at his cabin on Frenchman's Pond--to get an invite there was "top shelf" as John traver did not suffer fools easily-You had best be fishing dry flies with a split cane rod, have your drinking cap set right, and be a whiz at cribbage- he was a shark at that card game==

Maryland- Liquor Control Commisssion- we were in Ocean City this past June, my baby sister and her hubby are silent partners in both the Big Peckers Restaurant and the equally infamous Brass Balls Saloon across the causeway- But we made a side trip up to Fell's point to visit the reportedly oldest tavern in MD-- "You And The Horse You Rode In On"-- I would guess Jimmy Beam was the main choice in Bourbon-- Canadian Club in blended-- all good, but Old Cabin Still and George Dickel are true "sippin' whiskies" IMO!!:cool:

[Harry Collins]

You boy's talking about whiskey in the middle of the day makes my "Irish Constitution" weak. I'm looking out the window at my truck. In it is a .45 and two half pints. I keep the half pints because the last time I shot some SOB I wanted a drink afterward....... I can't booze it up to much this afternoon because of church this evening.

Harry

Pass the Elmer T. Lee

[Francis Morin]

[QUOTE=Harry Collins;8485]You boy's talking about whiskey in the middle of the day makes my "Irish Constitution" weak. I'm looking out the window at my truck. In it is a .45 and two half pints. I keep the half pints because the last time I shot some SOB I wanted a drink afterward....... I can't booze it up to much this afternoon because of church this evening.

Harry

Pass the Elmer T. Lee[-- Harry-great reply- of course, talkin' about a dram o' Tullamore Dew and actually "doin' the Dew" could be horses of the different complexions- I'm reminded of the words from my all time favorite comedian-pool shark and juggler- William Claude Dunkerfield-- Aaaah-Yeees-- "I always carry a flask of bourbon in case of snakebite-and a small rubber snake as well"--and of course his classic words: "A man has to believe in something,--- I believe I'll have another drink"--:rotf:

[Dean Romig]

I'll have to re-read "A Time of Laughter" by Corey Ford. He and William Claude Dunkerfields were best of friends in the twenties and thirties.

[Lee St.Clair]

Have an assignment for you when you return John.....we need an emoticon for grey goose and cranberry now...as I feel left out....:)

[Francis Morin]

If Tony Pacos serves that- and I am going to Cabella's in Dundee- I'll treat-Out this afternoon with the snow flakes as our duck and goose season ends Sunday- (re-opens for my favroite time to hunt dem webfeets on Jan 2nd. 2010-- Saw two bald eagles- maybe same pair as near a private pond we have hunted until the DNR posted it to protect them- wow- did the mallards scatter when those "101st Airborne" emblems made a pass- I did manage a Canada goose, some grey in the colors of course, maybe will marinate him/her along with the two Greenheads in Vodka and juniper berries-then roast with sauerkraut and sliced apples and baste with Calvados--How are you doing with the Parker? Have you shot it yet? If so, paper patterning, clays or game birds?-- I use either one of two "fowl weather shotguns" when we get heavy wintery weather- a Model 12 Magnum or a Mossenburgher 835 12-3" Federal steel BB's--when you can see their shoe-laces, they're in range!!:bigbye:

[Francis Morin]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;8491]I'll have to re-read "A Time of Laughter" by Corey Ford. He and William Claude Dunkerfields were best of friends in the twenties and thirties.- Yup, that is a fact-I like Corey Ford's retelling of Prohibition- and the trap door at Jack Kreindler's famous "21" Club and the mistake that sent a sizeable quantity of fine whiskies crashing to their glassy demise on the stone and cement floor underneath-might have inspired the later Crown Royal ads- "Ever see a grown man cry" and a broken bottle of same lying on a street curb sans Purple bag--I always wondered if Dorothy Parker was a distant relative to the Charles Parker family of Meriden CT. fame- somehow, I think not--:p

[Lee St.Clair]

My grampa....caretaker of the club before my uncle....was buddies with Tony...and yes they serve grey goose. :) No I have not shot my great grandfathers parker....need light loads as I don't think my shoulder could take full loads. Season ends here the 6th. As I take walks in the morning and hear the ducks and geese til the shooting starts. Am looking forward to end of season though.....as I love to take wlks in the marsh....and can not again til season is over. sighs. I am blessed at having access to it.....I feel like it is 'my marsh' til duck season starts. Just doesn't seem right! :)
Let me know when you are coming down.....would be nice meeting another one of you guys!!

[Dave Suponski]

Lee,Be carefull what you ask for.Some of these "Old Boys" are kinda frisky...:duck:

[Lee St.Clair]

Hmmmm.....and how do I respond to that as if we are sitting conversing at a nice dinner...:) thank you for your concern? ummmm....are you volunteering to give me a heads up? or shall I go get back that nice little 22 baretta I used to have?

[Dave Suponski]

Na...I don,t think the Beretta will be nesessary.Maybe a sharp stick....:rotf:

[Francis Morin]

And one of the "sharpest Blades" to ever come from Toledo- actor Jamie Farr- aka "Cpl. Klinger" from the older TV series M*A*S*H-- seems to me he may have mentioned Tony as well in that great TV series. Depends on the weather of course and may well be a "gun shopping trip" with my son-in-law to "The Big C" just a few clicks NE of Toledo- will advise. Yes, light loads and the shorter shell length is a good idea in older fine doubles. Many of the members like the RST shells- I have used them, also BP and RIO- do you handload, or have a friend who does this? You can customize your loads for your particular shotgun that way as well. If memory also serves, believe the late WW11 correspondent Ernie Pyle may have also hailed from the "Mudhen City"- not 100% sure- he once wrote about a local restaurant in Toledo run by two brothers who must have been friends with the Marx brothers- they specialized in a lot of "sight gags" and slapstick-ish comedy- ie: A waiter would come out of the kitchen, serving tray aloft, and shout "More rolls for table seven" and the tray would contain several rolls of toilet paper-etc--Ah yes, the "good old days"- when you could buy a Packard or a Parker from any dealer--::rolleyes:

[Lee St.Clair]

Yes.....Klinger did speak of Tony and 'packos' on Mash....don't think his dresses did much for Toledo's rep tho...lol. I used to load with dad....years ago. As he had no sons...I was elected. I spent many hours on the lake and in the marsh with him growing up. Thus my love for both. Don't know of the restraunt you speak of....do remember the 'marx' brothers. Never saw a packard on a car lot...or a 'new' Parker in a gunstore. So you sir are wiser than I....I will leave the recomended 'sharp stick' at home....:). Let me know...and if you come this far....Jaqua's is not that much farther....

[Francis Morin]

Bill Jaqua was like a "Dutch Uncle" to me-and I have one habit in gun and related gunning item dealings he taught me- ALWAYS OFFER the customer/buyer a full NQA return for full refund of anything you sell- There are, I am sure, other gun dealers as honest and ethical as Bill-I just don't know them (yet)-- Packard's and Parkers-both top quality products of a by-gone era indeed- I served in the USMC and one of my buddies was from Toledo- Bill Baither- his dad, Charlie was sales manager for Pemberton Cadillac-you won't need a sharp stick or a .22 Beretta in your handbag Lee-my son-in-law will be our chaperone-he's my number one varmint shooting and deer hunting companion, we may have to replace his .270 Browning A-Bolt with a LH actioned BA in that same caliber- most likely a synthetic stock-that's why the Cabela's gig- after the Holidays--

I have no idea what you are physically, but gun fit for a lady can be an entirely "different ballgame" than for a man- so if the stock is too long or has too much drop or pitch, even with lighter loads your cheek may be hurt from recoil "jump'-- to me, with a few years "in the shooting game" proper stock fit and then trigger pull(s) with good gun mechanics are the "Key" to successful and comfortable shooting, no matter the gauge, barrel length or choke(s) in your shotgun.

Our waterfowl season in this zone closes tomorrow Dec 6th--but opens for the late 30 day "bonus" goose season on Jan 2nd 2010-- with the first two days also legal for ducks-I would rather hunt waterfowl in rough weather than any other type of hunting known where a shotgun is employed-started at age 10 and love the weather, colors of the marsh or river or corn field, the early pink of the morning against the stygian black of a cloudy but moonlit night before, the whistle or wings, the lonesome call of a single Canadian goose-the muted whine of your Lab next to you as he hears the sounds of birds awing--

In my years waterfowling I have seen many changes- mainly steel shot requirements and, IMO, a list of regs. that call for a lawyer for a hunting partner-hopefully one who doesn't know Dick Cheney- you are indeed blessed with the memories of the marshes of lake Erie and your I assume, late? father-hope you'll keep that fine old Parker too!!:bigbye:

[C Roger Giles]

Speaking of The Great WC.
Afriend of his visiteed him in the hospital when he was on his last legs and found him reading the Holy Bible, the friend asked him if he had finally repented, WC replied no, I'm just looking for loop holes.

All that said I am now headed for my FG jug, on Sat's the stsrting time is moved up to noon from the usual pour at four time.

Rog

[Francis Morin]

[QUOTE=C Roger Giles;8537]Speaking of The Great WC.
Afriend of his visiteed him in the hospital when he was on his last legs and found him reading the Holy Bible, the friend asked him if he had finally repented, WC replied no, I'm just looking for loop holes.

All that said I am now headed for my FG jug, on Sat's the stsrting time is moved up to noon from the usual pour at four time.

Roger-- FG- football Game time Jug-- sounds good- or is that the "Infamous Grouse"?? either way, not too shabby indeed. If memory serves, the NE area outdoor scribe Frank Woolner once apparently had a typo and wrote about "Ruffled grouse hunting" and a reader noted this, and advised Frank- to which he replied-- OK, you are correct, the bird is indeed Ruffed- it's the hunters who become "ruffled" at his devious ways and F-16 like flight characteristics..:bigbye:

[C Roger Giles]

Francis;

Thanks for the kindness about my typos as I am unskilled in computers and typing and FG does not help out those short commings but sure hits the spot.

Rog

[Francis Morin]

I am also a computer/typewriter/grammar/snytax "Klutz"--my girls want me to have a I-Pod, a BlackBerry (great pies) and/or a flip-flop cell phone that: (1) takes pictures (2) folds parachutes (3) reloads RST hulls I guess- I still have an older "non-folder" with the bigger keys, no fold, no fotos- just for a 911 emergency call-- Back in my school days, girls took home ec and typing, boys took shop and mechanical drawing-we learned how to use a slide rule- aka "slipstick"- now it's all computers and CD-Rom, CAD-COM, a changing world. I won't attempt to speak for you on this Roger, but for an "old dog" like me, owning and shooting Parkers (also a Fox and a few LC Smiths-and my older Model 12's) is a return to a simpler time-when people did business witha handshake, a man's word was his bond and when you had lunch with a shooting companion (maybe a glass of FG on the rocks?) you didn't have this "I'll have my people contact your people and we'll "DO" lunch" business.
Well FG as in Football game- I picked the Crimson Tide to win- so tonight I'll sip some Dickel on the rocks and toast the legacy of "Bear Bryant"- nice to know that some older Southern traditions still live on- wonder how the quail hunting is down in 'Bama???:cool:

[C Roger Giles]

Francis;

Great to watch the Crimsom Tide squash the sun tan crowd.

Lee;

I live in Rossford,Ohio and cavort with the Sandusky Bay duckers, the non marsh owner hunters. If you care to give me a call 419 666 8271.

Tony Packo and my dad were long time friends ie someone once mentioned bootlegging days.

Bud and Lukes was the resturant full of gags and dirty tricks in Toledo, now out of business. The last owner is a flyfisherman,phesant hunter, and aquaintence.

The Ernie Pyle comment I have no idea if he lived in the Toledo area have never heard any gossip about this.

Time for a nightcap and sleep

Roger

[Harry Collins]

Roger,

It was Carlotta Monti, Bill Fields mistress that authored "WC Fields and Me", who caught him at home reading the Bible. He stood and she asked "Why Bill Fields what are you doing?" He replied, "Looking for loopholes my dear, looking for loopholes".

"Die in a vat of Whiskey? Death where is thy sting?"

Harry

[Lee St.Clair]

Mr. Morin,
First, I can not imagine you being a 'klutz' at anything.:)
Jaqua's, I have heard nothing but good things about Bill, he sounds like another man who is very much a gentleman and that you are blessed to call him your 'dutch uncle'.:)
So you were(many say once a marine always a marine:)) a marine? I then also look forward to shaking your hand and looking you in the eye and thanking you for what you did for me. As words can not express my gratitude sir. Thank you.
Your daughter picked well then, as to have a husband that her father enjoys being with, you are blessed again sir. I will leave all instruments of defense at home.:)
I have shot many shotguns, none of which were fitted for me, so my experience has not always been pleasant, thus my hesitancy at times. Perhaps one day I shall have one that fits and feels as though were an extension of me. smiles.
I purchased this parker from a relative in 1985 for my father for Chrsitmas. He recently gave it back to me, I know not the reason. He is very much alive, is 75 and still comercial fishes. He catches the 'big' ones. I have spent many , many nights on the lake with him catching minnows. smiles. He is 'the' guy to get minnows from , from Toledo to Cleveland.
I like your prose sir, the way you describe your envioronment, another man at this 'imaginary' dinner table I would very much enjoy listening to. I have my down coat and columbia boots ready for tomorrows walk in the marsh, as today is the last day of hunting here also. So no hunters tomorrow! I am probably the only one on this forum who looks forward to the season being over! smiles. Blessings, Lee

PS...I am keeping the parker, thanks to one of you fine gentlemen on here, who I can not thank enough for assisting me with so much grace!!

[Francis Morin]

Thank you as well Lee for your very nice reply. All branches of our Military are worthy of respect, and to all Veterans, brave men and women who served and put themselves in Harm's Way more than once. Our beloved Lt. General Lewis B. Puller, nicknamed "Chesty" (also the name of our Bulldog mascot) is the only Marine, whether a NCO (as i was) or a Commissioned Officer, to have been awarded Five Navy Crosses over his long 30 year career in the Corps. America has been blessed with great Military leaders over her 200 plus years- among them: George Washington, Robert E. Lee, Nathan B. Forrest, John Pershing, William Halsey, Dwight Eisenhower and my favorite, George S. Patton Jr. However, it was our beloved "Chesty" Puller who summed up all of the essence of Military "leadership by example" in four short and to the point words: "Officers Always Eat last"!!

So you do not hunt, but enjoy being out and seeing the birds and Nature- reminds me of a 30 year old (perhaps) article in Field & Stream magazine written by Ted Trueblood- entitled: "Other Values" and he wrote about the other aspects of being out with a shotgun after ducks besides the shooting, and that has always stuck into my mind when I go out with shotgun in hand.

I apologize if I mis-wrote about your "late" father, glad he is still an active outdoorsman at age 75- seven years from now I plan to be the same.:bowdown:

[Ben Yarian]

Lee, I too look forward to the end of deer season. But for a different reason. The start of the second grouse season. Its been one week, and I feel that I am in withdrawl. One more week to go then back to the grouse coverts. I considered going to a perserve on saturday for pheasant, I would help, but not the same as grouse hunting.

Ben

[Lee St.Clair]

I grew up hunting with my dad, a 'few' years ago...smiles.
Is duck season I look forward to the end of, because the marsh I enjoy so much is then 'abandoned' by the owners and is then left for me to enjoy again. As the owners only pay attention to it during duck season.
The only game birds here to hunt are doves. I do not recall hearing of grouse hunting here, nor woodcock. My dad has spoken of hunting pheasant, and were a few around when I was little. I have not seen any here til the last few years. As the fence rows being gone, hawks and eagles have taken care of them. The hawk and eagle population here has increased tremendously the last few years. The rabbits have almost disappeared in my yard....good for my garden...but also good for the polecat population!!
I have dined on a variety of game. Duck(many different kinds....teal is best....), muskrats, turtle, snake, froglegs, goose, pheasant and dove. Perch, catfish, bullhead(spring only are delicious), panfish, smokedcarp(excellent if smoked right) and walleye(their cheeks are tatiest). No grouse or woodcock.
The last deer I got was with my car. I stood for about 20 minutes til
someone stopped. The gentleman that did so advised me he felt my car was drivable, I told him I agreed. That I only needed help putting the little button buck in my trunk. I do believe he was a bit shocked. smiles. The joke at work then was that I eat road kill. I then had a retirement party at my house for one of my fellow nurses. The dish I made was complimented many times. After the meal was finished I thanked them all for the compliments on my 'roadkill' dish. (a few were a bit upset....smiles)
Wow, I got a bit windy this morning.
Hope you do well with your grouse Mr. Yarian. And very much enjoy the crisp outdoors!!!

[Francis Morin]

Lee- I live on the Cusp of MI counties where we have a very high vehicle-deer accident record. Although I didn't get a buck in the scope of my 30-06 rifle this past season, I have cooked many a venison roast- Firstly, where the deceased deer has been feeding makes a huge difference, as well as the hanging and aging of the carcass in a cooler--just as with game birds, waterfowl and even ground game such as rabbits and squirrels, the longer the meat can age in a cool locker, the better-

For road kills, where the trauma to the carcass can be somewhat different than a bullet or arrow "fatality" , the sooner you can dis-joint the carcass and salvage with a boning knife the usable cuts, the better- then wrap in cheesecloth and hang over a pan and every day saturate the entire section with apple cider (acedic acid)--soak in cold lightly salted water overnight when you want to remove the cheese cloth "gauze" and then simmer to a slow boil (in the same manner in which you "freshen" a salted corned beef brisket in preparation for a St. Patty's Day corned beef and cabbage feast-

Now for the best way to cook a venison haunch or roast-Marinade for at least 36 hours with the entire piece of venison emersed- I use a cider vinegar base, adding sliced onion, salt, pepper corns, brown sugar and cloves- Reserve the liquid, strain through a colander to remove the bits of clove, etc-

Pat the roast completely dry, then lighly dust with peppered flour until coated, brown in a cast iron skillet in olive oil at proper temperature until the entire surfaces are brown on all sides- then place in a coverable roasting pan ( a proper seal to retain juices and keep meat moist is essential) pour in the reserved liquid enhanced with Cavaldos if you like) and roast slowly in a preheated 350 degree oven for four hours-- Removed at let stand on carving tray, keep the reserved liquid baste for a pour-over gravy, BUT instead or adding flour or cornstarch to thicked, add finely crushed gingersnaps, stir until proper texture is developed and pour over the roast prior to slicing- and remember, all wild game is best when carved across the grain of the meat-

I like red skinned potatoes with butered parsley or German potato pancakes, red cabbage, served either cold as a side dish, or heated, Kimmel bread and a good dark beer- Leinie or Yeungling-- You might like a nice Merlot, ladies choice- Enjoy!!

[Lee St.Clair]

Wow....and you cook too?:)
Am off to see my old friend Jack Tibbels...another man who is very much a gentleman. He owns a marina here on the western basin. He has scuba dived lake erie for MANY years, as did his dad. He is trying to get walleye season changed here, and I have volunteered to help him. And as I do will hear many stories about the 'old' days on lake Erie. Another man I could sit and listen to forever.....
Then am off to magee marsh, they have a historical room there from Cedar Point Shooting Club....no pics tho:(. Am going to meet with curator. They are inquisitive there of an island discussed in some historical documents that sat off the mouth of the Toussaint river....I am looking into for them.
Have a great day Mr. Moran!!! Blessings, Lee

[Jim Pasman]

Mr. Morin - that "road kill" recipe is as close to my Grandmother Ziebart's saurbraten recipe as I've ever seen complete with gingersnap gravy. My grandparents ran a butcher shop and grocery store in St. Joe. All along I thought that was beef.....

[Francis Morin]

Mr. Morin - that "road kill" recipe is as close to my Grandmother Ziebart's saurbraten recipe as I've ever seen complete with gingersnap gravy. My grandparents ran a butcher shop and grocery store in St. Joe. All along I thought that was beef.....-- St. Joe- MI-? You can try to cut corners, as some chefs have and use ginger powder and cornstarch- BUT- the real way to make it properly is the crushed gingersnaps--accept no substitutes--

I have also prepared some venison chops as follows- aging helps and a careful cut and prep- I keep the chop bones intact, as the old saying of "nearer to the bone, sweeter the meat" is a truism in my kitchen--I use a tenderizing mallet and break up the tissue somewhat, then pat dry, dust with peppered flour and again, sear until both sides are brown in the hot olive oil--set the heated chops aside on a platter, add brown sugar gradually to the pan drippings over medium heat until you get a fluid "glaze" that will just slide off a knife-pour off into a bowl, but leave a film on the heated pan, add a can of Hunt's chopped tomatoes and use a pastry brush to spread the glaze over the chop bones, to "seal" in the flavor, put the chops on the bed of heated tomatoes, drizzle on the remaining glaze thinned a bit with brandy or Calvados- place lid on to seal, and simmer on low heat for about 2.5 hours- depending on size of pan, number of chops- DO NOT remove lid until time is up- serve on a bed of wild rice with mushrooms, a side salad with hard rolls, and beverage(s) of your choice-I like apple Jack- recipe for that later, but in a pinch, you can add Calvados to apple cider and come close-

[Jim Pasman]

Yes Sir - St. Joseph Michigan where all my remaining aunts and uncles still reside. Thanks for all these recipes!