12 GA DHE Value

[AlexDade]

I've just acquired my father-in-law's DHE (see attached pictures) and I'm trying to estimate value for insurance purposes (the gun isn't for sale). Here are the specifics from the PGCA research letter:
SN: 216067
Year of MFR: 1926
Options: Vent Rib; trap model forend; frame size 2
Barrels: 32" (still -- uncut)
Chamber 2 5/8
Pull: 14 1/2"
Heel Drop: 1 1/2"
Comb Drop 1 1/2"
Weight 8 # 7 Oz! (not looking forward to hefting it around the field all day -- maybe a different gun for hunting):)

If anybody wants a specific picture, just let me know.

I'm sending the gun to Larry DelGrego for a once over (hasn't been fired in over 40 years), but then I plan to shoot it regularly. I just need to list it on my insurance with some reasonable value.

Any opinions would be appreciated.

[AlexDade]

Couple more pictures in case you need to see them.

[David Holes]

The book does not show all of those options. Without a letter it is hard to put a value on it. If the factory upgraded it, probably around 8,000.00, If not , about half that much. Dave

[AlexDade]

I've attached my Research Committee letter which (unless I'm mistaken) shows all the options I mentioned. What's missing? The gun does have a Remington factory code indicating it was returned in July 1943, but I have no idea if that was for modifications or repair.

[AlexDade]

Thanks for estimating a value, though -- that's about what I figured, but I don't think there have been any upgrades. I think the gun is exactly as it left the factory.

[Bill Murphy]

I agree.

[David Holes]

I guess the serialization book is not correct again. Proves the value of your letter nicely.

[Bill Murphy]

We have thought for quite some time that the #1 1/2 frame was used for about all trap guns. Recently I have seen or heard of three original trap guns that were built on the #2 frame and are quite heavy. I guess the occasional trap gun was built on the #2 frame. How many? Don't know. My opinion is that the #2 frame traps were special ordered to make a high weight request by the customer. The one #2 frame trap I own is a horse and weighs about 8 3/4 pounds.

[Dave Suponski]

The 1 1/2 frame double trap I own is just wonderful....:whistle:

[Brian Dudley]

What a nice gun! About the only think I see that may not be original is the adjustable recoil pad.

[AlexDade]

Yea obviously the adjustable recoil pad isn't original. What should I do about that? What would the original have been? A skeleton?

This one isn't quite as heavy as your 8.75# gun, but not far off. Like I say, fine for skeet, but after a day in the field bird shooting, this gun would feel VERY heavy. I've lugged an M-14 (9.8#) and an M-1 (9.5#) around all day, but that was when I was a pup....and I was encouraged by a loudmouthed platoon sargeant....can't quite do that any more!

[AlexDade]

Wonder if the Research Committee could determine how many skeet or trap guns were build on #2 frames?

[Bill Murphy]

The Researcher would find that difficult to impossible considering the number of missing stock books. I have never seen a #2 frame skeet gun and darn few #2 frame trap guns. Let's see what other members say about #2 frame trap guns.

[Jeff Kuss]

My VHE is a 1 1/2 frame with 30" tubes.

[Daryl Corona]

My VHE trap has 32" barrels on a 1 1/2 frame with double triggers. Not very common I come to find out as most were ordered with the single trigger.

[AlexDade]

Mine's a single trigger, which I prefer

[Rich Anderson]

I have a DHE 30" VR trap gun on a 1 1/2 frame. It would take big money to pry it away.

[Dean Romig]

A 2-Frame live bird gun or Pigeon Gun would be more likely than a 2-Frame Trap Gun. I can't remember ever seeing a 2-Frame Trap Gun.

I strongly disagree with the $4000 assessment posted earlier.

[AlexDade]

Dean - Help me out here, as I'm a bit new to this - What exactly is it that makes this a trap gun versus skeet or live bird gun? And I saw a guestimate of $8K, but I didn't see the $4K valuation you mention. I was thinking more along the lines of eight myself.

[Dean Romig]

A skeet gun would have shorter barrels. 26" was by far the most popular barrel length for a skeet gun of that era, however 28" barrels are not unknown. On the other hand, 32" barrels would have been considered a serious handicap in skeet shooting.

The name of "Skeet" was only given to that game of shotgun shooting in 1926 and Parker Bros. was not building and/or advertising 'skeet guns' until 1929 or so.

[Jeff Kuss]

Mine is also a double trigger gun.

[Justin Julian]

How much length of pull is left from the trigger to the end of the buttstock wood? If you've got at least 13" of wood there, I'd have an expert install a 1" thick Silver's red/orange recoil pad. That at least will make it look more authentic than it does with that horrible Morgan's adjustable recoil thing on it. I can't begin to count the fine doubles and SBTs I've seen over the years that had their collectibility ruined by a "Morgan's". Usually, too much wood is cut off the stock to re-pad it to a usable length, but maybe you got lucky on that.

There is little harm in over-insuring this gun at $8,000 value in the event of a loss. But with that cut stock, which forever compromises its originality, you'd never find someone to actually pay you anything close to $8k for it, IMHO.

[John Dunkle]

...I can't remember ever seeing a 2-Frame Trap Gun.. No wonder you missed every bird with my #2 frame trap gun - you had your eyes closed..!!

:D

John D.

[Dean Romig]

John, sorry but I don't believe that gun is a 2-frame. That thing is so light and lively you hardly even know you're holding it... :shock:

[Dave Suponski]

Dean, You shot it like you didn't know you were holding it.......:rotf:

[Rich Anderson]

Dean it sounds to me that you and the gun arn't one with the bird! The Force is not with you:rotf:

[Dean Romig]

I don't know what they're talking about...

[AlexDade]

Ruff - thanks for that. This may surprise and confuse you, but I really don't give a flying flip what someone would pay me for this gun, because (as I mentioned in my original post) IT IS NOT FOR SALE. This was my father-in- law and his father's gun and I have a strong emotional attachment to it. If you offered me $16,000 for this gun, you'd go home empty handed.

So if you think of these Parkers like stocks to be invested in, you and I have nothing to talk about. Every time I fire this gun, two generations of my family will be with me. If you don't get that, I feel sorry for you.

[Justin Julian]

Well Alex, I guess you have confused me, to tell the truth. I was only responding to your original post which states, "I'm trying to estimate value for insurance purposes....any opinions of value would be appreciated". Most people define "value" as the price a reasonable buyer would pay a reasonable seller within a reasonable time in a well advertised setting. I merely mentioned that because the stock has been cut, the value of this Parker to a reasonable and well informed buyer would be significantly reduced, while also noting that there is little harm in over-insuring the gun in the event of loss.
If my opinion of value, which you explicitly solicited, somehow offended you, then I do apologize for that. But nothing in my post warrants your belligerent and condescending public response. If you really felt the need to tell me off, you could have done that via PM. While we members do often disagree and argue about all things Parker, we simply do not treat each other like that here at the PGCA, which is why I like being a member. Hopefully you will keep that in mind in your future posts to others.

Enjoy your father in law's Parker. It is a real beauty and priceless family heirloom indeed.

[Steve Huffman]

This is why we dont need appraise my Gun/Parker. As to Alex you dont need insurance to insure your emotional attachment ,money should not replace that.

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, a #2 frame trap is a scarce gun. The pad should be replaced with something more conservative. The length of the wood from the trigger should be about 13 1/2 to be considered original. It is a great gun, worth about $6000 to $7000, maybe less, maybe more. Insurance, maybe $9000, but most of us don't insure. It's expensive, and a safe is usually enough. Looking back at the pictures, I might ask if the barrel flats may include some Remington repair code stamps. It is a great looking gun with about three lifetimes of shooting left in it.

[Steve McCarty]

Someone mentioned the butt plate of this otherwise fine Parker. That Butt assembly, IMO needs to be replaced. I've seen Silvers Pads on old Parkers and that is what I would suggest.

As for the owner's slashing remarks? He has probably been educated on other sites which are often rude. We are about Parkers here, and that bloke owns a very nice one. So he is welcome here. I'm sure he'll understand us better as he drops in more often.

To the owner: nice Parker thar dude. I would keep it too. As for insurance? I suggest that you buy a safe and self insure. If you lost your Parker you would never be able to replace it. Buying a quality safe is a pretty safe thing to do.

Yes, many Parkers are expensive, but I don't care. I hanker for another like so many other's. Mine have cost under $1500 each, but I was lucky. If I find one that I can afford I strike like a rattler!

[AlexDade]

To all:

I apologize if my remarks were taken as abusive or rude -- that certainly wasn't my intent. I was taken aback by what I considered Ruff's over the top critical response. The gun is now at Larry DelGrego's in Ilion and I specifically intend to ask him for a recommendation for replacement of the current butt plate -- I realize (and have all along) that it's not original or period appropriate.

I'm an old car buff and I understand originality and valuation, but I also form intense personal attachments to these historic items, as I'm sure many of you do.

I like this forum and the whole association and assume most of the members are more interested in the utility, beauty and history of these fine firearms over their monetary value. It's this priority of history and beauty above price I was trying to express.

[Bill Murphy]

It has been my experience that Mr. DelGrego does not stock age appropriate recoil pads. You should procure and send him a pad to install. If you do not do this, you will receive your gun back with a Pachmayr white line pad with a Larry DelGrego and Son logo. My friends, the DelGregos, may have changed this policy, however.

[AlexDade]

Well I certainly want an appropriate pad. Thanks for the heads up.

Where would you recommend I look for an age appropriate pad and what should I look for?

[AlexDade]

Bill, I didn't answer your question about Remington repair codes on the barrel flats. Yes, the code is AMM3 indicating it went back to Remington in March 1943. The web site indicates the 3 stands for "service section received" but I don't know what that means.

[Bill Murphy]

3 is usually interpreted "the gun was repaired or refinished". I would prefer the Griffin and Howe Silvers reproduction pad for this gun. You should be able to get one with a phone call and have it sent directly to your gunsmith from Griffin and Howe. Make sure you make it clear to the installer that you don't want the finish on the gun touched during the installation.

[Chuck Bishop]

Alex,

Check your PM's