When to restore? Need opinions.

[Ray Masciarella]

I have two old Parkers I'm thinking about having retored.

Original stocks. Worn checkering. No finish. Never have been refinished. Nice fit.

Engraving good but a little smooth in areas.

No case color visible.

Barrels show less then 30% damascus.

Solid and shootable as is. High grade guns. One gun special order per Research Letter.

Does it make sense to restore a gun when it has no original finish or do you just leave it as an old worn gun? Does it have more collector value as worn gun or restored gun when dealing with high grade guns?

I'm new to the forum. Have never thought about restoring a gun before because it is usually such a no-no. Would like anyone's opinion who might like to share it with me. If you'd like to keep your opinion private, my email is rmmfl@aol.com.

Ray

[David Hamilton]

Ray, You need to get in touch with our registrar and re-register in you full name. There many here who can give you great information on your question. Re-register and post pictures. David

[John Dunkle]

Hi Ray..

As David mentions - on this forum we use our real names (as it states multiple times during the pre-registration and registration process ;) ). If you PM me or post your last name - I'll get your account set, OK??

As well - welcome to the Forum - and as David also mentions - please post pics!

John

[Ray Masciarella]

David and John

So sorry. I wasn't paying attention. On other Forums I'm in it is fashionable to have a catchy name. I did not follow the instructions!!!!!

Hopefully John has rec'd my PM so that my account can be corrected.

Raymond Michael Masciarella II (with a name that long you now know whay I prefer "Ray")

[John Dunkle]

Hi Ray!

I just got your PM - and you are all set! I will also tell you that your note put a slight grin on my old face, as I too - sometimes forget to read the instructions.. ;) HEH!! Anyway - you are all set, Sir - and with my thanks! Just remember - your new login name is:

Ray Masciarella

If you have any difficulties at all posting pictures or logging on - please let me know, OK? In the meantime.....

Welcome!!!!

John

[George Lander]

Hello Ray and Welcome: You say your guns are "high grade". It would help to know which grade and also the serial numbers. Have you obtained a factory letter on them yet? Are they tight and on face? Are the bores without pitting? It is my opinion that if they are only worn of finish from use and the wood is sound but with handling marks, I would not have them refinished. If they need the mechanics looked at I would have that done only by a competent Parker smith. In my humble opinion cosmetic restoration of a high grade Parker will not enhance the value or the utility........George

[Ray Masciarella]

Thank you George!

They are AH's circa 1890's. Are tight and on face. One with pitted bores. Nothing that can't be fixed. I do have letters. I would not just do cosmetics but rather a complete, professional restoration vs. a mere "refinish", ie the whole 9 yards.

Ray

[George Lander]

Ray: You have some very nice & valuable Parkers. If the one with pitted bores has sufficient wall thickness you would want to get that one professionally honed. Otherwise I would get some expert opinions from knowledgeable Parker people before doing a "restoration". I the collector's arena originality is everything and a restored gun is still a restored gun.

Just My Humble Opinion.....George

[Ray Masciarella]

Thanks George. What is your "expert" opinion. A gun with no finish is always a gun with no finish, and a restored gun is always a restored gun. Thus, the two evils so to speak.
I see restored guns selling for quite a bit money? Sure takes a few bucks to do it correct.
Sounds like your advice is to leave well enough alone?

[Bruce Day]

You did not indicate where you lived, but with significant guns a person should not act quickly. My suggestion is to bring them to a PGCA gathering place, such as the Southern in April or the annual meeting in September. Lots of nice guns have been harmed by bad case color jobs, machine buffed barrel refinishes, varnished stocks and repointed checkering done with contemporary angles. On pitted barrels for example, lots of times pits can mostly be polished out without rehoning. Rehoning cuts away metal and reduces barrel wall thickness, usually by 006 or so. The pits are usually only cosmetic and newly shiny bores always raise concerns for me.

I'd leave it alone until people who know Parkers got to look at it and you got a variety of opinions.

[George Lander]

Bruce's reply is well stated. Let them be until you can have several knowledgeable Parkerphiles like Bruce see them in person. Some restored guns, as you say, sell for lots of money. The same guns in the same condition if original sell for lots more. You didn't say if your AH's had Damascus or fluid steel barrels. That would make quite a difference when it comes to polishing vs honeing. Serial numbers would help. Advice from those who know would help more.

Best Regards, George

[Dean Romig]

Ray, George and Bruce have given you the best advice. Don't act hastily.

[Ray Masciarella]

Thank you Dean, George and Bruce. I don't want to act hastily and want as much advice as possible. All good advice so far.

George, I did indicate they had damascus barrels. How does that make a diiference to you? ie honing vs. polishing? I'm going to polish them first to see what I have.

[David Dwyer]

Ron
I collect high end sub gage Parkers and would advise leaving the guns alone.
The number of collectors interested in restored guns is a LOT less than those of us looking for all original guns. If the gun is all original the next owner can restore it if so desired but once restored it can not be undone.
David

[Bruce Day]

Ray,lots of times pits and uneven bores look worse than they are. Some people will take emory cloth, wrap it around a bore brush, apply lots of oil and scrub away. Others will take automotive paint rubbing compound and gob that on a bore brush. Just scrub away a lot and those bores may clean up, as pitted bores tend to collect dirt and look worse than they are.

Here's the issue. Lots of Parker barrels, fluid or damascus, were made around .032 to .038 wall thickness. Many people, such as me, feel that .025 is a comfortable minimum, although the Brits will go down to .020. Many older guns, such as yours, were sent back to the factory to have the bores "cleaned" in the days when people were still using black powder. Burnt black powder contains sulfur compounds, moisture collects, and sulfuric acid results. So bores were cleaned, wall thickness reduced, and so what because a person could always get new barrels from Parker and many did. So each rehoning costs .006, maybe more, in wall thickness and after two of those, you have very thin walls.

Now I like damascus barrels and shoot modern smokeless loads in them up to Parker's design psi ( not proof psi) of about 11,300 for a 12ga, although much of the time I shoot loads that run between 7500 and 8500psi. I like wall thickness, and for some unfounded reason, particularly like wall thickness in damascus barrels. Honing reduces wall thickness and adds nothing functionally. Shiny bores are merely cosmetic. I'm talking about the normal ripples, rings, small pits, that you see in old bores, not deep cracks, holes, etc that show structural issues.

Good luck with your A grades. Some of them, including those made around that time period, can be spectacular. "First, do no harm," And by the way, some of the same people that are telling you to exercise caution here are the same ones that are known to collect guns such as yours may be.

[Ray Masciarella]

Thanks Bruce. The pitted barrel has .042+ wall thinkness. I was thinking about using the Flex Hone sold by Brownells to clean them up cause I can controll everything well.

[Bruce Day]

Ray, I am not a gunsmith and have no experience with the flex hone. I have seen a Parker barrel set where the barrels were honed and the chokes opened, and as a result the bores were not concentric and the patterns were off. Be careful.

[Ray Masciarella]

Yes, that is a problem and one needs to stay away from the chokes when using the Flex Hones. Really no different then any other barrel.

[David Hamilton]

Ray, There are Parker collectors who regularly restore their guns. This can add to the value of a gun. If one would restore a gun there are a couple of things to think about. Why would restoration be a benefit and who can do the job properly? Additionally, the restored gun should be able to pay you back if sold, not all guns can do this. But some people just want the gun brought back in appearance and aren't concerned with cost. It is expensive and it takes a good deal of time during which you will be without the gun. Should you decide to go forward you need to get the names of restorers as near to you as possible who can bring a Parker back in appearance and function.