How does this modification effect value?

[Chris Langer]

We located a very clean Parker VH 20 gauge on a "0" frame. The good news: about 95% original blue with a small amount of freckling in the blue near the fore end and wear on the trigger guard, 50% case colors, 1923 production, 26" uncut barrels, (not sure of chokes) double triggers, weight 6 lbs, great stock dimensions, LOP 14", very good to excellent wood. Now the bad news, someone added sling swivels. Appears to be an old addition with 3/4" European style swivels. The front swivel is attached with four small screws to the underside of the rib almost touching the forend. The rear one is attached in the usual manner with a wood screw. My wife has always wanted a Parker and really likes this gun. The dealer has it priced at about $4000. Our question is, do you feel the price is a bit high considering the swivel modification? Thanks for your opinions!

[Dave Suponski]

Chris, Is there anyway you could post up some pictures of the gun? Also the serial number would help. Parker did in fact install swivels at the factory and if they are factory that wouldn't affect value to my mind. Also a factory letter may help to determine this. But lets start with some good pictures and a serial number.

[Chris Langer]

The shotgun is at a gunstore so I can't post pictures. But. the serial number is 201950. Thanks.

[Brian Dudley]

Well, if the rest of the gun is in very nice condition, then the sling swivels are a small, yet glaring detractor that could be rectified if need be, but not without expense. I will let others also voice their poinion on this, but I think that $4k might be a bit high considering the addition of the swivels. If they are not original.

[calvin humburg]

Book says no extras when it left first time. I guess serialization book is when it left 1st time

[Andy Kelley]

Chris it is for your wife ...and it will make her happy..swivels be damned ..write the check ..life it too short ..she will love the gun and you will be a hero enjoy the Parker, sincerely, andy

[tom tutwiler]

I had a pair of swivels taken off of a german gun by Keith Kearcher a few years ago. The holes were drilled in the bottom of the rib like yours. Keither removed/plugged and re-rust blued the bottom rib. I couldn't tell it had been done even in direct sunlight. The cost then $100. Removing the rear swivel and then plugging and minor finishing and you would have never known the gun had swivels to start with. This isn't a hard fix for a gun smith.

PS. That said, take it to a good smith. I had swivels removed from another gun and it looked like the smith drove two nails in the old screw holes and finished it with a ball peen hammer. That non-fix was also $100 and ended up greatly detracting from the finished product.

[Mark Ouellette]

I think the price is too high but if your wife likes it and will shoot it then buy it and consider yourself a lucky man indeed!

The swivels can be removed and screw holes repaired by a competent double-gunsmith. Brad Bachelder removed and repaired the holes in the bottom rib of the LC Smith Chain Damascus 10 gauge in the album at:
http://www.parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=226

You might consider leaving the swivels and finding a nice European type sling for the gun. Your wife might appreciate being able to sling the gun over her shoulder as the two of you walk hand in hand back to your hunting truck...

Mark

[Bill Murphy]

Leave the swivels if they are of good quality. Fox, Parker, and Ithaca guns have been documented with factory swivels. Unfortunately, pictures of the guns with those factory swivels are not easy to find. In my experience, most factory swivels were of European style, less than one inch width.

[Andy Kelley]

To swivel or not to swivel..I just finished restoring a Belgian hammer gun 16 ga that is so light it feels like a horse pistol.It has swivels which were appropriate for the gun and I bought a nice quality leather sling from Jeff's Outfitters . Last year in the Adirondaks we were literally going from tree to to rock to tree and would have loved to have had my gun on a sling across my back.

[Bill Murphy]

I have two American shotguns with what may be original swivels, a mag ten NID Ithaca and a 32" DHE 12 gauge Parker. Both of those guns work better with swivels than without because of their weight and because they are waterfowl guns. The long walk to blinds makes a gun with swivels a real joy compared to one without swivels.

[Chris Langer]

Thanks to all for your comments and advice. We are seriously considering this shotgun. Does the serialization book state what the chamber length is or how it is choked?

[Bill Anderson]

Thanks to all for your comments and advice. We are seriously considering this shotgun. Does the serialization book state what the chamber length is or how it is choked?

Unfortunately, the serialization book does not give either of these two factors on any gun,

Bill

[Kevin McCormack]

Speaking of swivels (original or not), what happened to the tried and true slip-on/slip off leather loop sling? On/off in an instant, leaving no swivels to snag on anything, and leaving the clean lines otherwise destroyed by this Euro-affected accessory. The only saving grace in this case is that the forend swivel is screw-attached to the under rib and easily removed, plugged, and finished over. The buttstock removal is easier still, since you are working with wood instead of metal. Other than that the only drawback is that IMHO the gun is about $800 over the market for a non-ejector V grade.

[Andy Kelley]

Chris good luck whatever your decision and it is great that your wife has shown a level of enthusiasm for a Parker...she is obviously a woman with great sense and classic style

[Bill Murphy]

As Kevin correctly states, the gun is quite a bit over the normal retail price for a field used VH 20.

[Chris Langer]

I'm indeed a lucky man. We met in a gunshop. Our second date was to pick up a new 7x57 she had ordered. My first gift to her was a set of loading dies for same. Gift-wrapped, of course.
That hammer gun sounds delightful.
Chris

[Drew Hause]

Parker factory swivel on a 1905 DHE confirmed by letter

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/15656750/390935762.jpg

[Jerry Harlow]

Just my two cents but at $4k for an altered VH 20, the dealer in this economy may have it a long while. A stack of hundred dollar bills containing far less than forty of them may speak loudly. He is probably trying to triple his money.

[charlie cleveland]

just my 2 cents worth but ive not seen any 20 ga s above trogan grade for less than 3000...theres a pretty good one on gunbroker now for 3000 but it has been on there for a while it may have issues ive not noticed but looks pretty good for a shooter.... charlie

[Jerry Harlow]

Charlie,

Just saying that a gun that needs alterations fixed needs to have the cost of such repairs deducted from the price. If it is truly all original, the price is not off; that's if it is original. If it is and the sling swivels don't bother one, then the price is what it's worth to you. But if you've ever taken a collector double gun into a store-front dealer and see what they offer you, it is usually far less than 50 cent on the dollar. That's how they make a living. But they usually like to move things so that's why I say unless it's a consignment, I would not offer full price for it.

[charlie cleveland]

j a i totally agree...if i were trying to buy a gun i wanted i would surely try to get it as cheap as possible...but im just looking at the guns on the internet sales and seldom do i see a 20 ga with asking price under 3000.... heh aint long will be busting some caps soon been invited on a wild pig hunt when the weather cools down...charlie