Stuff

[Rich Anderson]

The wife has informed me that I have to much stuff. She refers to this as "clutter" and I regard it as "material to be used at a future date". If something doesn't have an immediate use in her mind it should be gone, if we need it in 6mos we will replace that item. I subscribe to the theory of It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

If your a gun nut like I am and a pursuer of game both feathered and furred just by the law's of nature you accumulate stuff. My stuff extends to antique furniture, collectible books and art work so it compounds the issues.

If you shoot a lot then you must reload which means stuff. I load 12-410 both 2 3/4 & 2 1/2 inch hulls so thats different presses. When I buy componets it's 5000 wads at a time for example. There are 6 totes of empty hulls in the basement of different guages. I probably have a lifetime supply of RST 16's and 20's but that doesn't stop me from picking up more at shoots. They won't rot and it's better to have them. Add centerfire rifles into the mix and now there is brass (more than I'll ever use), bullets, primers, powder for them also. Another press and eighteen sets of dies from .22 Hornet to .416 Taylor. Why do I still have the Taylor as I don't anticipate another trip to Africa? I like to shoot deer with it but in all honesty the last deer I shot with it was probably 6 years ago but it doesn't eat anything and maybe someday I'll get back to Africa but if not there are plenty of Whitetails around. I won't even get into the guns but I have more than I need/shoot but not as many as I want. You can never have to many guns.

I have one pair of dress shoes for work but at least 6 pair of hunting boots. There are two pair of light weight non insulated boots for early bird season. Why two pair she asks, well if one pair gets wet there is a spare. Two pair of medium weight insulated leather boots for walking around in late fall, early winter, felt pack boots for deer season and a heavy pair of Micky Mouse type boots for the late season on stand and muzzel loading season. Muzzelloading thats a good one. I haven't even shot my TC Encore in 6 years but I won't sell it because I might just need it some day along with the wool snow camo suit.

I still have the Columbia Quad 4 Parkas (2) I used for duck hunting. I haven't hunted ducks in 20 years but the coats are still good and came in handy once in 1999 in Alaska. Waterfowl hunting breeds stuff what with decoys for ducks and geese, calls, waders, boats, motors, specialized guns, non tox shot, Labs, trucks to haul the boat, i'm lucky i don't do this anymore.

I have every issue of Shooting Sportsman and DGJ. i refer to them as research material and evidence of the increasing value of our fine guns. I refer to my "stuff" as collectible sporting equipment and memorabilla. The wooden shell boxes that line the closet in the Gun Room are all put to use holding varying things from binoculars, hulls, slings, brass, knives (I can't sharpen a knife to save my ass so I have a lot of them), old cloth shell bags, I pointed one out to the wife at an Antigue store, they wanted $12 for it but the value was lost on her.

At the end of the day I do have a lot of stuff but my stuff gives me pleasure and I'd hate to die with $20 in my pocket, a vacation day and no stuff.

[Ronald Moore]

You shoulf tell your wife not to mess with your stuff, and be done with it. Women, cannot live with them, cannot live without them.

Massamoo

[Dave Suponski]

Rich, Danny said that "We have alot of shooting and hunting stuff" the other day as he was looking for something. I just rolled my eyes....I think I'll just have him read this....He'll understand....:)

Maybe us guy's should just print this out and keep it for future use.....more stuff....:whistle:

[charlie cleveland]

rich you have said it all.... i and all the rest of us guys want to thank you for reminding all of us whu we need all this stuff...i set here looking up in my little cubby hole and i see a pile of pld hunting shells a brand new 1949 chev steering wheel hanging on the wall a rabbit trap from australia.. a no4 jump trap a dr pepper bottle that is full from the year of 1958 my dads old bill fold a horse collier and the haynes and chains attached... a picture of a 39 packard and a 55 chev convertible a 24 ga single barrel a 40 inch barrel long tom...and a BIBLE....gosh the list could go on...thanks for reminding us it only matters to the person that this stuff belongs too what its worth.... charlie

[Rick Losey]

sorry guys but all this stuff just confirms how lucky I already knew I was, and I love her for so much more than just because of this -- but

she has as many books and magazines as I do, mine do not bother her a bit.

we are constantly in antiques stores, we both add to the collection, although her finds tend to be for the house, example - I had just built a workbench for the rod shop when we found a great antique one, thats out there now as well.

she rode out with me last night to look at a potential boat restoration project, (and I sure as heck don't NEED another project) her only concern was did I have a place to put it until I can get to do it, so that is does not deteriorate any furthur.

Her answer to the last Osthaus print I was actually going to leave hanging in the shop where we saw it was -- "have you seen it before and when will you see another one."

When our breeder emailed the group a few years a ago that a pup was available, she said "did you tell me we'll take him?" I laughed and told her I had not finished reading the email yet :). so a second setter joined the family.

Even the last Parker was only met with "its a good deal isn't it"

I know some guys are only enjoying making wife jokes, and for some they are unfortunately not jokes.

but no jokes here - I make sure every day she knows how I feel.

[calvin humburg]

Throw in Rocks for me, go figure. I really admire the people who lived by the rock. Bean picken up neet rocks a long time then I found a rock tool and....

[Rich Anderson]

She really doesn't give me to much grief as long as I take care of my stuff, it's the clutter she can't stand. I refer to my pile of clutter as organized chaos.
I did add to the antique furniture collection with an ice box and a small camode. I can use the camode as a TV stand in the cabin and the ice box well I have been looking for a small one for years now I can search for something else. I bought 5 boxes of factory .22 Hornet ammo the other day just because it was a good deal at $20/box. Now I won't have to reload any when I go to shoot Prarie Dogs. Another hobby that adds to the stuff. :shock:

[John Dallas]

If it weren't for the "Stuff" this wouldn't be interesting

[Bill Murphy]

You guys don't want me to start participating in this discussion. I don't think there is anything that has been mentioned so far that I don't own at least two of, and that doesn't scratch the surface.

[Steve McCarty]

Wives should tread lightly on this subject. When the question arises, "It is me (the wife) or your guns". The answer is not an easy one.

I went to a gun show once and a fellow was off loading a nice collection of SMLE's. I bought two. He said his wife had issued an ultimatum and his guns had to go. I thought, "Man she must be some chic!" I'll bet they broke up anyway and he lost one very nice collection in the deal.

My wife and I have been hitched for a long time and she finally gave up complaining when I returned from a gun show with a new find, but it was a long and hard fought battle. I do try to restrain myself however, because I have so many guns that I almost don't need any more.

[Steve McCarty]

There is a collector mentality and one either has it or not. Collectors will collect almost anything, from shot glasses to shotguns....and then there is everything else. The mania can get out of hand, so we must be careful.

I collect guns, books and Old West tintypes. My tintype collection is out of this world, but so are my guns and books....oh well.

[Rich Anderson]

I call it collecting, others refer to it as hoarding.

[Steve McCarty]

I call it collecting, others refer to it as hoarding.

As I consider your post I conclude that a hoarder hoards everything, even garbage. They fill their homes with stuff of all kinds of unrelated things. This is a sickness. People who do this need help.

Collectors collect certain catagories of things. A gun collector will pass by a '55 Chevy for instance....okay; the Chevy has to come along too.

So, I think there is a difference between a hoarder and a collector. Hoarding is a mania.....collecting is not - sorta, but I do think the two are related to some degree.

[Rich Anderson]

Perhaps those that refer to my "collecting" arn't that well informed. Somehow I haven't convinced anyone that two totes of 16ga empties are collectible :whistle: I defer to the rationale that they won't spoil, don't go out of style, have future use and don't cost or eat anything. Therefor they have value and therefor are "collectible":rotf:

[Steve McCarty]

Perhaps those that refer to my "collecting" arn't that well informed. Somehow I haven't convinced anyone that two totes of 16ga empties are collectible :whistle: I defer to the rationale that they won't spoil, don't go out of style, have future use and don't cost or eat anything. Therefor they have value and therefor are "collectible":rotf:

Paper or plastic?

[Rich Anderson]

Plastic. 2 1/2 inch Purple RST

[Grantham Forester]

I am certain that I have read several pieces by the late Gene Hill dealing with all the postings herein. There is a comfort level with older, well-worn and well-used, but cared for: guns, decoys, calls, dog collars. Maybe we all want to return to the by-gone days seen by Nash Buckingham, Havilah Babcock, Corey Ford and now, Gene Hill too! I think Gene expressed part of this "collecting" best in "The Stranger"!!my favorite!!

[Bill Murphy]

What a coincidence. I almost don't need any more either, and on the exact same day as Steve. Imagine that.

[Bill Murphy]

Good news, Linda never gives me grief about the wood decoys because her Dad carved every one of them. Well, almost all of them. There is a trophy pair that represented my previous ability to shoot good skeet, and a McGaw canvasback from a good friend's massive family rig. It was a present from him after I presented him with his last bring 'em back dog. Linda is not fond of the non wood decoys in the basement, though, since they haven't been in the water since her Dad passed away about fifteen years ago. I guess I could let them go. As for calls, even though I shouldn't be allowed to use them, they take up very little room and I don't think Linda knows about them, except the few that hang next to the kitchen door. They are there in case of the flyovers that happen regularly during the early resident Canada season. Linda thinks I own three calls, all three goose calls. I hope no one will ever accuse me of hoarding. Well, I guess there are the bird vests.

[Fred Preston]

Probably an accumulator, somewhere between a collector and a hoarder, mostly due to a procratinatory tendency; slow to suck up and get rid of the useless.

[Bill Murphy]

Fred, hardly any of my stuff is useless, except to me. There are many people who would find my stuff useful. I just don't happen to be one of them.

[Pete Lester]

Not to make fun of wives BUT.....this is a true story. On the day my father was moving into the alzheimer's wing of the nursing home he was asked by a nurses aid if he was married. He replied " no, I am intelligent" :rotf: He had a lot of stuff too.

[Rich Anderson]

I just hate to throw something away because as soon as you do then it's going to be needed. An extra pair of bird pants, a vest or two, the boots with the worn souls (I have a pair of Red Wings I just had resoled after I bought a new pair of Danners) a couple 3 orange hats, the gloves with the trigger finger worn out. In a pinch a little duct tape will put those gloves back in the hunt. Well you get the idea and this is where stuff comes from.

[Bill Murphy]

You don't throw away anything orange. When going to a preserve or an out of town hunt of almost any kind, your companion will not have realized the requirement for orange. What, you want him to have to buy a new piece of hunting apparel without careful study? Of course not. You dig through your stuff and give him something orange. Throw it away? Give me a break. After the hunt, do you let your friend keep the orange stuff? No way, you take it back to lend to others and you send your friend shopping. After all, he needs to accumulate some orange stuff himself. Let me know if my take on hunting equipment is somehow flawed. I wouldn't want to do the wrong thing. I repeat, I am not a hoarder, certainly not a hoarder of shotguns or vests.

[Rich Anderson]

I don't think you can hoard shotguns these (at least the good ones) fall into the collectible catagory as do rifles and handguns. I'm not much up on the handgun catagory, I own a couple of Colt .22's and a S&W M29, a Browning (Belgium) Hi-Power 9mm, a couple other .22's and a .45ACP but thats about it.:):)

[Steve McCarty]

I don't think you can hoard shotguns these (at least the good ones) fall into the collectible catagory as do rifles and handguns. I'm not much up on the handgun catagory, I own a couple of Colt .22's and a S&W M29, a Browning (Belgium) Hi-Power 9mm, a couple other .22's and a .45ACP but thats about it.:):)

I own a couple of dozen pistols, from old Navy Colts to a modern 1911, but I am a big fan of the Browning Hi Power and own one. Mine is a newish pistol and is a very nice shooter.

[Bill Murphy]

I have no interest in handguns, don't shoot them and don't own any. Well that's not entirely correct. I do have my Grandfather's 1916 DWM Luger, my late (Viet Nam 1967) wfriend Captain Boyd's 1903 Colt USMA graduation award gun, a Sig 225, my H&R dog training gun, Linda's 5 screw Combat Masterpiece, a couple of model 17s, and my old Highway Patrolman. There is a little Beretta .32 in the safe somewhere. There may be one or two more, but not any that interest me. I'm just not a handgun kind of guy.

[Steve McCarty]

I have no interest in handguns, don't shoot them and don't own any. Well that's not entirely correct. I do have my Grandfather's 1916 DWM Luger, my late (Viet Nam 1967) wfriend Captain Boyd's 1903 Colt USMA graduation award gun, a Sig 225, my H&R dog training gun, Linda's 5 screw Combat Masterpiece, a couple of model 17s, and my old Highway Patrolman. There is a little Beretta .32 in the safe somewhere. There may be one or two more, but not any that interest me. I'm just not a handgun kind of guy.

I like pistols because I shoot them pretty well and over the more than half century of my collecting I've gathered quite a few. When I was buying a lot of guns my proclivities would change from .22's to milspec to shotguns and back again.

I have been shooting skeet weekly, usually three rounds and I am not doing as well as I'd like. My shooting buddie breaks almost all of them always and without batting an eye. I'm working on trap now which gives me an opportunity to shoot my Parker which I enjoy.

In addition, I find the new, post 1952 shoulder mount, pandering to high scores. When young, we all used the low mount which resulted in lower scores and I think a greater challenge. We shot trap to practice for hunting. Breaking 25 with the high mount and breaking 25 from the low, are two very different things. However if people like the high mount that's their biz, it is no skin off my nose.

I also think that the European game is better than ours, because it is more difficult due to their low mount, faster birds and delayed launch. Why don't we do that too? It is because it is too hard? That doesn't sound like the American way to me. Okay, I am getting old and slow and crotchetty and how we shoot will remain unchanged no matter what my opinion is...just say'n.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

You guys are all worrying about what your wives think of your stuff. I've got that one by the short hairs, I don't have a wife. Hah!

The girlfriend is a little baffled by my stuff, but at least she sort of collects a few things herself. A girl that has the flea market urge isn't as hard to get along with when it comes to stuff as a woman who just wants everything new and useful.

My worst problem is shotgun shell hoarding, I have no idea how many rounds I've got but it's scary. Just bought a box of 1 1/2 #2 and #4 Remingtons at an estate sale the other day because hell they were only $5 a box! I'll add them to the two cases I have of the exact same loads.....


Destry

[Ronald Moore]

He who dies with the most TOYS wins, me 7 cars ,three trucks, over 100 guns, 6 generators, some stuff is missing but eventually I will find it, NO WIFE, been there done that finally learned my lesson.

Massamoo

[Robert Delk]

..6 table saws,2 lathes ,over 200 carving tools,60 woodworking planes,8,000 feet of walnut lumber,1200 gun catalogs and 2000 hardback books and bermuda shorts I've had since I was 16.I'm not married anymore either.

[Steve McCarty]

My worst problem is shotgun shell hoarding, I have no idea how many rounds I've got but it's scary. Just bought a box of 1 1/2 #2 and #4 Remingtons at an estate sale the other day because hell they were only $5 a box! I'll add them to the two cases I have of the exact same loads.....


Destry

Well, Destry (rides again?) you have a couple of things working for you. If your girlfriend buys something at a yard sale then you have an excuse to buy a few more boxes of shotgun shells. Neat, eh?

Concerning collecting shotshells.....can you bring yourself to shoot them? That might be problematic.

I'm afraid of the anti-gun backlash from the Colorado shooting. They are trying to limit the # of shells we can have. As all shotshell users know, we buy them by the case. We have to because we shoot them by the case.

I have yet to buy some through the mail, but I want to.

Say, I've got a few boxes of old shotgun shells that go back to the 60's. I'll list some if you are interested, before I shoot them up that is. I've shot almost all of the old Win AA's at skeet/trap. The rest are 2's and 4's, etc. A bunch of 3" 20's that I'll never shoot. Some are quite old.

[charlie cleveland]

list them steve a lot of us are interested in old shells....espicall shotgun...some of my shells that are old i shoot on game espically squirls but most are just for looking at... charlie

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Steve,

I've got what I call a "collection" and that's out on display. Then I've got what I call "the horde" and that's stashed in the closet and under the bed. Anything in "the horde" is up for grabs as far as shooting. There's everything in there from 2 7/8 paper 10 gauge to .410 buckshot loads for The Judge. I shoot paper shells at squirrels, preserve pheasants, and stuff like that. I ain't afraid to put a paper shell to the use it was intended. I did sell some recently though, a full factory 20 box case of Redhead skeet loads in 12 gauge. I bought them for $2 a box at an estate sale and just didn't have the heart to break them up.


Regards,
Destry

[Steve McCarty]

Steve,

I've got what I call a "collection" and that's out on display. Then I've got what I call "the horde" and that's stashed in the closet and under the bed. Anything in "the horde" is up for grabs as far as shooting. There's everything in there from 2 7/8 paper 10 gauge to .410 buckshot loads for The Judge. I shoot paper shells at squirrels, preserve pheasants, and stuff like that. I ain't afraid to put a paper shell to the use it was intended. I did sell some recently though, a full factory 20 box case of Redhead skeet loads in 12 gauge. I bought them for $2 a box at an estate sale and just didn't have the heart to break them up.

Destry

When plastic shells came out I thought that we'd gone to hell in a handbasket. They told us that the new plastic wads shot better, but I couldn't figure out why. Plastic shells didn't smell right. I missed watching those wads fly out there. I'm trying to get into loading 2.5 inch brass 12 gauge shotshells. I haven't loaded a shot shell in decades. I want to shoot them in my GH, sounds like fun to me. Anyway I'm stuck with plastic, just like the rest of us.

[Rick Losey]

Anyway I'm stuck with plastic, just like the rest of us.

if you are not loading now, RST make paper hull shells , fiber wads and even a roll crimp version.

[charlie cleveland]

federal still sells paper hulls....them old paper hulls do smell good.... charlie

[Steve McCarty]

federal still sells paper hulls....them old paper hulls do smell good.... charlie

Thanks, I'm going to try to find them. Does it cost a bundle to have shotshells delivered via the mail...or UPS or whoever does that? I have hesitated to buy through the mail since I can buy shells in the local sporting goods store, but RST have to be delivered. I've never seen them for sale in stores.

I'm going to research those Federal paper shells.

[Steve McCarty]

if you are not loading now, RST make paper hull shells , fiber wads and even a roll crimp version.

Currently I'm loading for rifle/pistol rounds and with my new Rock Chucker it is going very well and I am having fun. I reloaded with an RCBS Jr. press for half a century! I neck resized which meant that often times I could only shoot a round in the gun I had first shot it in, since they resized to the chamber of that rifle. Especially vexing when shooting in autos. With the Rock Chucker it's a piece of cake to full case length resize. Why didn't I spring for one when I was in my 20's?

Shotshell reloading comes later.

[Steve McCarty]

if you are not loading now, RST make paper hull shells , fiber wads and even a roll crimp version.

Thanx

[Rich Anderson]

B&P will deliver low pressure 12ga shells for about $83.00 a case. The delivery charge for RST isn't that great. I have seen them in some stores and a local gunsmith carries them. If you go to any of the bigger SXS shoots they are usually there.

[Rich Anderson]

I have successfully increased my "stuff" with a 75th anniversary DU bronze and a Parker print.

The bronze in on an antique Library table in the corner of the basement stuck between a pedastal mount of two Elk and the TV, and behind an antique ice box but it's in a safe place for now. She asked "what are you going to do with that?" referring to the Parker print and I jokenly replied that it would look good in the living room which I knew wouldn't fly. I said it was going to the cabin when she replied it was to nice for that and it would just get ruined there:confused: "It would look good in the gun room if it wern't so cluttered" was her reply. No matter where it ends up it's been added to my "stuff" and I like it.

[charlie cleveland]

ive got to hurry and get out and add something to my stash.. maybe tommorrow going to a gun show... but where will i put that new treasure.... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Steve, where do you live and what double gun events do you attend? RST is all over the place at double gun events if you are interested in saving on shipping.

[charlie cleveland]

bill rst needs to come farther south and they may ....but ive never seen them in my area around tupelo mississippi.... charlie

[Rich Anderson]

Charlie you have UPS there in the land of Elvis don't you? The shells are wonderfull and the UPS charges arn't that much or you can stock up at the Southern just up the road in north Carolina:)

[charlie cleveland]

you must be talking about the little brown trucks that always seem to be in a hurry...if these are the dilivery trucks old cuz elvis does have u p s in town..i was just standing in the spot here other day where elvis s momma talked him out of getting that rifle and getting that old guitar...i think he woulda been happieir with the little rifle..who knows... i hope someday to be able to come to one of the side by side shoots..know one would enjoy it more than me.... charlie

[Steve McCarty]

Steve, where do you live and what double gun events do you attend? RST is all over the place at double gun events if you are interested in saving on shipping.

If you are addressing me, I live in Central Oregon miles from no where. I'll order the RST shells thru the mail. I emailed them and they responded right away.

[Dean Romig]

i hope someday to be able to come to one of the side by side shoots..know one would enjoy it more than me.... charlie

What are you waiting for? Time waits for nobody. Time is like a big river - you can't stop it. You can watch it go by... or you can jump on it and go for a ride.

[Steve McCarty]

What are you waiting for? Time waits for nobody. Time is like a big river - you can't stop it. You can watch it go by... or you can jump on it and go for a ride.

It seems to me that most of the exciting "shoots" happen on the east coast. Here, way out west, where you drive for an hour to buy a jar of mustard, they are more infrequent.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I'm off to an estate sale in the morning to try and get this fantastic Black Forest style deer antler picture frame. Looks like a heck of a piece in the photo, we'll see what kind of price they've got on it. Of course, if it's as cool as it looks then I will keep it. Just what I need, another piece of STUFF to hang on the wall.....

Destry

P.S. At a sale last week I bought four milk crates full, one whole crate was to keep. Yes I know, I have a problem.

[John Dallas]

"Hello, My name is Destry, and I have a problem" Is there a Stuff Anonymous? I suspect many of us could be charter members. You don't know "stuff" until you become a fly tyer. Our stuff includes road kill

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Reloading and fly tying are two bad habits I've managed to NOT pick up over the years. I have plenty already, those are two that seem to accumulate even more "stuff" than I can handle.

DLH

[Rich Anderson]

The accumulation of "stuff" is an evolutionary process as we go from one thing to the next. The only sustainable thing is the accumulation of the new stuff.

Reloading for both shotguns and centerfire rifles definately adds to the stuff. I just bought 10,000 Win 209 primers because they were a good deal.

Thank God I never tried fly tying.

[John Farrell]

My significant other has a problem with stuff. She has no stuff. After she has it for a little while it goes into a bag and she brings it to the poverty store for them to sell. She has trouble understanding why I have 12 reloading machines, devices and accessories for same. Why I need more than 5000 hulls is more of a mystery to her.

The worst was some months ago when she was at my place and my daughter showed up. During the conversations the daughter mentioned she was going to buy me a bottle of Single Malt. "Oh, no. Please don't buy him another bottle! Look at all he has stored in the liquor locker." With that she opened the cabinet door and exposed the SMS to light.

She went on to complain about all the stuff I had around the place, including the two bird dogs in the kennels. The 900 books were not mentioned because she has 200 books at her place and about 100 pairs of shoes.

She's still wondering why she doesn't get invited out here anymore.

[lee r moege]

Sounds like my ex-brother in law's reference to "his future ex wife". Happy aquiring!!!! Lee.:rotf:

[Rich Anderson]

My wife isn't a "stuff" person either, more of a minimalist. I did point out that she has three pairs of Jesus shoes (sandals) to my one pair of which I have had for over 10 years. She'll buy something use it once or twice then it goes to the garage sale.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Well I didn't get the picture frame, it was as fantastic as it looked in the picture but at $950 I figured it priced about double of high high retail. I did get a few other interesting pieces though, so it wasn't a total loss. The best being a fantastically strange dead game print that's Christmas related in a killer black forest style frame. Never seen or heard of anything like it, the birds are arranged in the shape of a Christmas Tree! I'm tempted to keep this one, but seeing as how I never decorate for Christmas I should really move it down the road. I'm going to sit it on the table for a few days and study the situation.


Destry

[Rick Losey]

As i have stated before -I am a print aholic

Just got the email from our framer this morning that the 4 Denton trout are ready to go,

I already have three more Osthaus prints to drop off when I pick the trout up.

Some will go into the rod shop when the walls get finiished off. A couple may need go on a ceiling

:)

[John Farrell]

Speaking of prints - a few years ago previously mentioned daughter was out here. She was trying to decide which of the two oriental rugs I had just purchased for $5500 she wanted given to her in my will. While strolling around the house she casually mentioned "Dad, you can't just have dog pictures in your house" commenting about dog pictures in every room including the guest bath. My response was "whose Fxxxing house is it?" Always quick on the uptake she replied, "Oh, yeah. I guess you can."

Two of the Osthaus prints in my living room were in a scene in a Seinfeld TV episode some years ago. Now, that's when you know you have a lot of stuff.

I just wish someone would come buy the VW Deer Buggy in my shed.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Hah! Apparently you aren't the only one who had a VW hunting car. One of my squirrel hunting mentors had one he used for years. Had a skid plate on the bottom, an extension on the exhaust, the whole deal. His reasoning for using it was that it was so light he could slap a come along on it and pull it out of any mudhole all by his lonesome as long as there was a handy tree to hook it to. That thing would go anywhere, it was amazing.

DLH

[Dean Romig]

Back around '68 a friend had a VW Bug that he put the complete engine and transaxle assembly from a VW Bus into. The bus had more horsepower and reduction gears out by the wheels. That little machine would just about go anywhere without getting stuck.

[Steve McCarty]

Back around '68 a friend had a VW Bug that he put the complete engine and transaxle assembly from a VW Bus into. The bus had more horsepower and reduction gears out by the wheels. That little machine would just about go anywhere without getting stuck.

The Germans used VDubs as jeeps in WWII. Ernie Pyle go one and drove it all through the North African desert. He said it'd make a great little car for Americans. Of course they eventually did.

No Germans got a VW during the War. Hitler did have a hand in the design. He and Porche developed the little "people's car". I owned several and liked them. The VDub was easy to love. While driving a new one I was nearly killed when hit head on by a drunk driving a Ford Fairlane 500.

[Dean Romig]

With the fuel tank up front a lot of people were killed in VW bugs.
It was in Reading, Ma and I think it was '67 or '68... a classmate of mine home from the horrors of Viet Nam left his homecoming party in his mother's full size Pontiac and at something close to 100 mph crossed lanes and took out an entire family from Wakefield travelling in their VW bug. It was horrific and left a very deep scar on a lot of people... myself included. Richie was killed too. I think he would have preferred it that way rather than surviving only to know what he had done. Richie was a good kid. He and I worked together at the Shell station during high-school and we had good times together.

Memories like this make me think of the movie "Stand By Me" and the tune and words flood back...

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I swear I read somewhere in this thread where somebody mentioned they collected old west photos. I've skimmed the responses and can't find it but there are so many that's not surprising. I just picked up a dandy one, would rather make it available to somebody on the forum rather than put it on eBay.

Destry

[Steve McCarty]

I swear I read somewhere in this thread where somebody mentioned they collected old west photos. I've skimmed the responses and can't find it but there are so many that's not surprising. I just picked up a dandy one, would rather make it available to somebody on the forum rather than put it on eBay.

Destry

Destry: That be me. I'm heavy into pictures of people who were involved in the Lincoln County War, this includes photos of Billy the Kid, the Regulators, the House Ring and the Chisum family. I only deal in originals.

While I know this will sound like I'm blowing my own horn "toot, toot", I have the largest collection of authentic photos (tintypes) of Billy the Kid and his bunch. I discovered, in a corner of a little antique store, Sallie Lucy Chisum's personal collection of tintypes related to her family, herself and Billy the Kid and his buddies as well as a few of the men who were on the winning side in the LCW. Billy's side lost. The collection is large and very complete, many unknown photos of the people who knew Sallie Chisum. I've researched the collection for years now and have met many of the Chisum relatives, some recall when the collection that I found was sold. The identities of the people depicted had been stored in an attic for a few generations and forgotten.

The kid, aka Billy Bonney, aka William Henry McCarty was a nice looking young man and disarmingly youthful looking. The pictures that I have of him are astoundly clear and close up. If anyone wants to see one of these just ask and I'll respond accordingly.

I do not have everyone who was involved in the LCW. I'm missing Pat Garrett, L.G. Murphy, John Reilly, Emil Fritz, J.W. Bell and Fred Waite. I am missing Pitzer Miller Chisum. I have photos of everyone else. None are known and I own most of the originals. Here is a picture of Sallie Lucy Chisum Robert. She knew Billy the Kid.http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Chisum%20Family/Newgroupingofcollection073.jpg

[Dean Romig]

A very close family friend who is in her mid-nineties and whose maiden name is Bonney reluctantly claims to have been told when she was younger to be ashamed of her relationship with William Bonney.

[Mills Morrison]

A true collector never worries about where he is going to put it.

[Bill Murphy]

Steve, what was the price of the William Bonney tintype that sold recently at auction? As I recall, it was very expensive.

[Steve McCarty]

A very close family friend who is in her mid-nineties and whose maiden name is Bonney reluctantly claims to have been told when she was younger to be ashamed of her relationship with William Bonney.

No one knows why Billy called himself "Bonney" and many folks, including myself would like to know why he did so. Was your family friend from Missouri or Indiana? Billy was probably born in Indiana, Missouri or Kentucky. I doubt he was ever in New York as many folks believe.

[Steve McCarty]

Steve, what was the price of the William Bonney tintype that sold recently at auction? As I recall, it was very expensive.

Yup; the price was $2 million and with the fees Mr. Koch paid 2.3 million. As for my picture of the kid, which is a tintype....cost me $6.50. Actually I have two, the second cost me four bucks.

When I purchased these tintypes the seller didn't know who they were of, and I wasn't sure. It took me several years of research and the finding of Sallie Chisum's family who live not far from me in Oregon to nail down the connection. Their family had moved to Oregon, Troutdale, when Walter Pitzer Chisum died in 1919. Walter was Sallie Chisum's brother and is buried near her in Roswell, New Mexico. Walter's daughter, Ara was close to Sallie, who was Ara's aunt. Eventually Sallie gave her photo collection to Ara because she wanted to keep the images in her family. Her papers she gave to Lily Casey Klasner which became Eve Ball's book, My Girlhood Among the Outlaws. Ara showed some of the photos her two boys, Fred and Walter, but she kept the "bad men" secret, being embarrassed about her family's relationship to Billy the Kid.

[Steve McCarty]

A true collector never worries about where he is going to put it.

I found my tintypes in a little antique store in Oregon. They were strewn willy nilly throughout the little store. Luckily I had read many books on the Kid and had traveled to Lincoln NM to study him and the images of his pals. Strangely I ran across these tintypes.

My fear is that after I die they will be lost again, and that would be a shame. I own original tintypes of almost all of the Regulators, two of the Kid and all of Sallie Chisum's family vise her uncle Pitzer Miller Chisum. I have pictures of John S. Chisum and his cousins the Towry's. I also have original and never before seen images of the Kid (2 of them), John Middleton, Frank McNab, Charlie Bowdre, Tom O. Folliard, Richard Brewer, Doc Scurlock, Alex McSween, Frank and George Coe and their wives, Godfrey Gauss, Alex McSween, Sheriff Brady, Bob Olinger, J.J. Dolan (copy of unknown original), Ira Leonard (the kid's attorney) Lily Casey Klasner, Matilda Davis (Brewer's girlfriend) and many, many more.

Some of my pictures are the only ones of that person extand including John Middleton, Frank McNab, Dirty Dave Rudabaugh, Billy Wilson and Yginio Salazar.

Sally Chisum collected all of these and saved them until before her death when she gave them to her brother's daughter who stored them in her attic. When she died in 1974, the photos were forgotten and sold in a yard sale. they ended up in a local antique shop. I came along and recognized them.

Pretty amazing, especially when one realizes that I dated Sallie Chisum's great granddaughter 40 years ago and that Billy McCarty may be a relative of mine, which has been a family legend all of my life.

Here is Tom O. Folliard, Billy's best friend who was killed by Sheriff Pat Garrett.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Regulators/Newgroupingofcollection054.jpg

[John Farrell]

Attached photos of my deer buggy that is looking for a new home. It is in MN and can be driven to its new home or hauled away behind a pickup using the removable yoke frame. Includes a 2,500 lb. winch to get you out of tough spots. JF

[Bill Murphy]

So, Steve, what is the difference between your tintype and the 2.3 million dollar tintype? Inquiring minds......

[Steve McCarty]

So, Steve, what is the difference between your tintype and the 2.3 million dollar tintype? Inquiring minds......

My tintype of the kid was taken at about the same time as the well known one. The Regulators visited the South Spring Ranch soon after the killings of Morton and Baker. I say this because I also have several pictures of Sallie that look similar. The photographer's name was George W. Morgan and the photo of Billy is so inscribed. I'll post it.

I also have a like picture of Richard Brewer who was killed on 4 April by Buckshot Roberts in the Blazer's Mill fight, which dates the picture.

I have two pictures of the Kid taken three years apart. In the first picture his visage is extremely clear and it is easy to match to the "Upham" photo that we all know. The later picture shows the kid in jail.

Here is my photo of Billy Bonney, aka Billy the Kid taken phttp://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Regulators/BillyBonney.jpgrobably in March of 1878 at the South Spring Ranch by George W. Morgan.

[Steve McCarty]

I'll try to post a copy of my picture and the Upham one. Not sure I can do it tho. Okay, here is a detail of the Upham photo of Billy the Kid. My image and this one are reversed from the tintype, so Billy shows as he did in life. I don't think I need to pick out areas of similarity in the two pictures. Mine is much clearer, obviously. They are the same man.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Regulators/Kiddetail.jpg

[Steve McCarty]

Even the curles on his forehead match! In my picture he has closed his lips over his buck teeth. You can guess his age as well as I can. He does look innocent doesn't he. By this time in his life he has already killed one man and participated in the death of three others. Childish looking? Yep, Deadly? Yep.

[Rich Anderson]

Have you considered donateing your collection to a museum? Might be a nice tax write off and it would at the least preserve a piece of American history.

The wife asked about the two boxes in the front entrance hall as they have been there a week. I told her they were shotgun shells. Her reply was to ask about the other four cases in the garage and I replied they were also shotgun shells. She just shook her head and asked that I put my stuff away. I haven't told her about the new gun:whistle:

[Steve McCarty]

Have you considered donateing your collection to a museum? Might be a nice tax write off and it would at the least preserve a piece of American history.



I have approached the Autry in southern Cal, the Cody in Wy, and the Smithsonian in DC offering to donate the collection which includes about 70 tintypes. No takers. They just don't believe the authenticity of the collection and when they call the "experts" their skepticism is given credence.

The experts don't like my provenance. I traced the collection back to Sallie Chisum's brother's family and they recall at least some of the photographs. Most were kept secret by Ara V. Chisum, Sallie's niece.

There is much more to this story. Book is in the works. I've got to go, but I'll have to post some more matches with my collection and known pictures of the same people.

[Mills Morrison]

The book should be interesting.

[Steve McCarty]

The book should be interesting.

It has been hard to write. It's not a history, or a novel, it is a biographical tale about Sallie Chisum's collection of tintypes that I stumbled across. I found other tintypes in and around Wisconsin, where the photographer's hometown was. Some I found within the historical society there and since they were not for sale, I just copied them. (with permission)

The photos are much better than any of the others that you see in books on the subject and while there are scores of books about Billy the Kid and the Lincoln County War they all show the same few, well known, hackneyed images. Mine are not only never before seen, but also timely. Other's show the people, George Coe for instance, as an old man years after the time of the Kid, but mine were all taken at about the time of the Lincoln County War and people look as Billy would have known them.

Interestingly I have several pictures of people who have no others. So my photos are unique and now, at long last, people can see John Middleton, Frank McNab, and Yginio Salazar.

Of course one of the most exciting things about owning these photos is that I know that each and every person depicted also handled the very picture that I own! How neat is that! It is almost like shaking hands with Billy, or Sallie or Alex McSween. Handling old things carry the charm of the people who first owned them, just as shouldering an old Parker brings us close to the original owner so long ago.

[Mills Morrison]

It is a real treasure to have that collection and too bad the museums have turned up their noses. It does not surprise me as we have the same problem with our local art museum in Savannah. They want stuff you would see in New York, but turn away good local work - stuff people actually want to see. :violin:

[Steve McCarty]

It is a real treasure to have that collection and too bad the museums have turned up their noses. It does not surprise me as we have the same problem with our local art museum in Savannah. They want stuff you would see in New York, but turn away good local work - stuff people actually want to see. :violin:

Yup; my experience too. I have also run into directors of museums being young women, recent graduates from some sort of school of museum science. I see little excitement concerning history. It is a business and a place for the employees to feel important. I don't get a good feeling when working with these folks.

Okay, I don't want to come off as petty or trite. But museums here are becoming like museums in the UK where they are part of the school system and very P.C... As an example I've been to the Cody in Cody Wy many times and right after they opened. They used to have scalps and severed finger necklasses on display. (taken at the Custer fight and found soon thereafter) No longer. It was explained to me that some very vocal people demanded that such items be hidden away. One of the items was the scalp Buffalo Bill'stook from Yellow Hand. It used to be on display. It is an interesting historical item. No longer.

To me, history and Parkers are sacrosanct.

And, yes, it is exciting owning this little group of tintypes.

[Mills Morrison]

That is my experience exactly. I couldn't have put it better. Savannah had a great community of artists from about the 1920's to 50's, but the museum here was busy competing with the NY crowd (and losing too). The Morris Museum in Augusta had more foresight and they bought up all the good Savannah art from this period and you can go there to see it now. They even have some hunting scenes which are definitely not "pc". It probably helps that their backer, Billy Morris, is "like us" and hunts and invests his money in farm and hunting land.