16 Gauge "PH" question

[Edward Hamm]

I just got from an estate a 16 GA "PH", with 28" Barrels, SN# 203XXX. Rib is marked "Vulcan Steel". It is a beautiful gun with what I'd estimate about 98% bluing (might be missing from some sharp edges, like on the rib), but how can I tell if the bluing is original or something re-done later?? Thanks.

[Dean Romig]

The barrels were likely replaced at some point. Original barrels for a PH were Twist Steel and Parker Steel. The Vulcan Steel barrels were original to the VH guns and were used by Parker Bros as the cheapest option for barrel replacement on just about any grade above the Trojan.

[Edward Hamm]

If the barrels were replaced, would they still have the matching serial number? Which they do. Also, the Blue Book I have indicates "most had twist barrels, prices here are for fluid steel barrels only." Does this "fluid barrels" refer to Parker Steel, not Vulcan Steel?

[Bill Murphy]

Serial number? It may help to identify the original barrel steel.

[Dean Romig]

If Parker Bros. had replaced the barrels they would certainly have numbered the replacement barrels to the gun.
I should think the Blue Book value for fluid steel barrels would indeed include Vulcan Steel barrels.
Yes, the majority of PH guns had Twist Steel barrels.

[Brian Dudley]

At the time of the Remington takeover and transition, there was a lot of Meriden stock that was used up before the Parkers started being fitted with Remington Chrome-Moly barrels (unmarked). So there were some Grades that no doubt were fitted with barrels that normally wouldn't be put on them. However, this subject PH was made earlier than that time being a 203,000 S/N range.

This would have been close to the end of PH production though. Original barrel steel should have been "Parker Special" if it was fluid steel. Just like the G grades.

[Dean Romig]

The barrel steel used on the 'subject Parker' will be shown in the Serialization book if it shows that serial number at all.

[Edward Hamm]

It looks like PGCA has some records on this gun...would these issues be cleared up by my ordering the research letter? Also, would pictures help? If so, specifically of what?

[Dean Romig]

At this point pictures wouldn't help in determining when and by whom the barrels might have been replaced but a letter might.

How is it listed in the Serialization book??

[Edward Hamm]

This is only my second day here...how do I find out about the "Serialization Book"? In fact, what is it? Lot to learn here, but it is very interesting!

[Stephen Hodges]

Ed, give us the serial # and we can check the book

[Dave Suponski]

I believe Dean is correct. The gun was most likely a late Twist barreled gun that was refitted with Vulcan barrels. Also if the gun was a factory fluid steel gun the rib inscription would read "Parker Steel" "Parker Special Steel" was reserved for G grade guns.

[Edward Hamm]

Sure...and thanks. Serial #: 203536.

[Dean Romig]

It is a book that contains a lot of basic information on most Parker shotguns and costs about $40.

Thanks, now someone will come on with what the Serialization book shows.

[Jim DiSpagno]

According to the book, serial # 203536 is a V grade, no extras, straight grip gun with 27" barrels in 12 gauge. If that is correct then a letter should be ordered to clarify the information. Jim

[Dean Romig]

Okay, Now it's time for some pictures.

[Edward Hamm]

I'll get the pics, but what exactly do you want to see?

[Brian Dudley]

Yeah... maybe you actually have a V grade there.

[Edward Hamm]

RE: V grade...that seems troublesome as it is clearly stamped "PH". and the fore stock, trigger guard, barrel lug, and water table all have the same serial numbers. I guess the barrels could have been changed either using the old barrel lug or stamping the new one with the serial number, but for it to not be a "PH" would require a bit more explaining.

[Stephen Hodges]

Does your PH have a straight stock?

[Dean Romig]

We would like to see sharp pictures of the sides and the bottom of the frame as well as the water tables of the frame and the barrel flats with the various stamps.

[Brian Dudley]

Well the water table would not have an H stamped after the Grade letter (ie: P not PH). The book does have some land mines in it.

[Dean Romig]

I'm hoping to see the modest scroll engraving that the PH (grade-1) guns are tastefully embellished with rather than the VVVVVVVVV graver-walk engraving of the VH guns. This would certainly tell a story we haven't heard yet...

[Brian Dudley]

V grades are covered in V's. Can't miss them.

[Edward Hamm]

Like I said, I'm new to this...What is meant by "straight stock"? I'll get on the photos today and get them posted later. Thanks everyone!

[Rick Losey]

Like I said, I'm new to this...What is meant by "straight stock"? I'll get on the photos today and get them posted later. Thanks everyone!

A straight stock means one with no pistol grip, a straight line from a longer tang to the toe of the stock

Often referred to as an English style

Look at the 26 inch barrel thread
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7484

The first one shown has the "pistol grip" and the gun shown in post #22 on page 3 is a straight grip

[Edward Hamm]

In general, my gun looks just like the one you sent the link to. Mine has more engraving. Photos will be posted later today.

[Edward Hamm]

OK...let's see if I can manage to post some pictures.

[Dean Romig]

That is definitely a Grade 1 (PH) with replacement barrels. Look where the radius of the barrel breech doesn't quite conform to the radius of the frame... that little gap tells me that those barrels were probably not original to the gun. Parker Bros. would not likely have let a gun out the door with that tiny imperfection. Nonetheless, that is a very nice gun and I'd be proud to own it!

The barrels have been refinished as well. Indicator is the vent hole drilled in the bottom rib.

[Daryl Corona]

Nice gun. Also notice the fit of the doll's head.

[Brian Dudley]

You know what... I am going to go out on a limb here and say that this is a V grade gun that was upgraded or customized into a P grade. One begs to differ, why? But who knows. Or maybe it was a Parker Lunch Box Gun.
- The engraving that is of P grade pattern but poorly done and not Parker quality or exactly the correct style.
- The water table has been restamped. Not once, but twice. The font is not correct or matching of the S/N and the "PH" stamping is not correct.
- The gun books as a different Grade with a different grip and a different guage.
- Other things such as the barrel fit are also suspect. The barrel fit may be due to 16g. barrels being fitted to a 12g. frame? Also the barrel lug stampings look not quite right or should I say too fresh. I would be curious to see what the barrel S/N stamp looks like.

On a side note, the book specs are interesting... 27" length. Thats different. And the serial number after it has the same exact specs as this gun.

[Dean Romig]

In my opinion there is so much misinformation being posted on this thread and some disparaging remarks about Mr. Hamm's Parker, I think it best that we all wait until a research letter is procured and if there are members who continue to 'disbelieve' then an in hand inspection of the gun may yield more accurate information than a few pictures can provide.

In the meantime, thank you Mr. Hamm for providing us all with some thought-provoking information and pictures.

[Edward Hamm]

I think I'll take a cue from Mr Romig and order up a research letter. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts. I will most certainly post whatever I learn once the letter is in hand.

[Edward Hamm]

Actually, one more question...really basic. How do you measure the barrels?...from the breach to the end of the barrel or with a round in the chamber and then from the froward end of the round to the end of the barrel? I did the former.

[Dean Romig]

Right from one end to the other.