G grade letter

[Herb Hewlett]

Just recieved letter on G grade #70036 it was ordered by Spencer Bartlett & Co
. Chicago in 1901 sent to Empire Coal co ,Gilchrist Il.shipped on nov.7,1901.
Larry Baer book shows this shotguns serial # manufactured in1892 did they keep guns at the factory that long , did I buy a very undesirable Parker that they couldn't sell ? Anyone ever hear of Spencer Bartlett& co. or Empire coal co? Herb

[Angel Cruz]

Herb, I have a 16ga lifter that sat in a store for two years before it was sent back for credit. Then it was resold by Parker Bros.

[Brian Dudley]

A lot of Parker guns were made in speculation of sales and held in inventory. Anything below a D grade gun (especially V grades and later on Trojans) would be considered a common seller and would be run through the factory in batches with common dimensions that would sell easily. Unless it was a special order, a gun always had the chance of sitting in inventory for a while.

As Angel said, parker would also take guns as unsold returns from dealers, or even used ones on trade from individuals. Sometimes even these used guns were worked over and resold as new. If they were lightly used of course.

I think that 10 years is a bit of a stretch for sitting in inventory. 1 or 2 years is more like it. You have to remember that Bear's book was written before the Parker records were studied. So his date estimate may not be 100% accurate.

[Chuck Bishop]

Herb, while doing your letter I didn't notice the gap between the stock book date of 1891 and the order book date of 1901. I checked and the letter is accurate.

The manufacturing dates are taken from the stock books so what you see listed on this site and what you see in books, as far as when manufactured, that data was from the stock books.

Some thoughts as to why the gap in dates for your gun are:

1. It was made in 1891 and put in inventory until sold in 1901.
2. It was sold soon after manufacture but was in a missing order book. The only missing order book in that time frame is # 39 which is in the 1895 time frame.
3. When the PGCA database was made (made up entirely from the Order Books), that S/N was missed. The gun could have been sold earlier and returned for credit, reconditioned and sold as recorded in the order book for 1901.

I went through some pages of the order books in the 1891 range looking for your S/N. Some orders from the same company took up two or more pages of guns ordered. The range of serial numbers was as much as 6,000 difference so many had to come out of inventory.

Remember, when an order is placed, an order number is recorded in the order book along with who ordered the gun/guns, grade of gun, price, etc. This order went to the factory. When the factory chose a S/N, the gun was built and the factory notified the office to write in the serial number in the order book where the original order was placed so the actural S/N found in the order book was recorded sometime after the original order was placed.

Clear as mud???

[Herb Hewlett]

To all who replied to my questions,thanks for the quick response. I found it interesting that a shotgun would sit in inventory for 10 years,it never occurred to me ,picturing Parkers going out faster than that.Certainly the Parker gun business is an interesting one and I doubt they made much money on this one. Thanks all,Herb

[Larry Frey]

Chuck,
Thanks for taking the time to do some extra research in order to give Herb some possible scenarios as to the history of his Parker. Your work is much appreciated by our PGCA members and nonmembers alike.

[Chuck Bishop]

Herb,

The order book has the gun listed as Spencer Bartlett & Co but the real name is Hibbard Spencer Bartlett & Co.. They were one of the largest hardware companys in the U.S. located in Chicago. Both names are found in the order books.

The writing in the stock books is very hard to read sometimes and the name of the coal company was difficult to read. It could have been various names so I Googled different spellings and included the town of Gilchrist Ill. That's how I found Empire Coal Co.

Google both Hibbard Spencer Bartlett and Empire Coal Co and you can read their history.

[Ray Masciarella]

Parker held a lot of guns in inventory for a long time. I have held for 11 yrs and another that went in and out of Parker's inventory for 16 yrs!

[Bill Murphy]

Ray's observation is the same as mine. I have an order in my collection from Iver Johnson that includes a wide range of serial numbers and prices only a fraction of normal wholesale. My opinion is that the guns were refurbished trade ins or dealer returns.

[Chuck Bishop]

Bill, as you know, Parker did take in many trades and returns and they are listed as such in the order books when traded in or returned. In the case of this gun, there is no listing until 1901 when the gun was sold and there are no missing order books from 1891 to 1901 except for order book #39. The only possibility for an earlier sale and subsequent return would be in missing #39 order book.

Do you agree? I'm still learning.

[Dean Romig]

Threads like this one, with Chuck's responses and contributions, prove to me that we made the right choice in selecting him as Mark's replacement. Chuck goes "above and beyond" to provide a valuable PGCA Research Letter.

[Bill Murphy]

Chuck, yes, I agree that the gun is probably listed in the missing book as an original sale. This is especially true if the Spencer order showed an unusually low price. As I recall, the guns in the Iver Johnson order I mentioned are mostly $19.00.

[Herb Hewlett]

To all who replied to my thread ,thanks,the knowledge and help on this forum is amazing. Special thanks to Chuck Bishop for all his searching through what must be difficult records to read and organize.This is certainly a class assoc. and I'm proud to be a member Herb Hewlett