Researching a V Grade w/Vickers steel barrels

[Archie Sturdivant III]

Hello Good People,

I am looking at a Parker Brothers V Grade 12 gauge with serial number 68912. From the information available to me this Parker was made in 1891. I think this is a O frame with the barrels replaced. This Parker now has Vickers Steel barrels. I am not sure when this was done or by who. I did see a #3 stamp that might indicate the barrels were sent to Remington for service. Is it possible that Remington would have installed the Vickers barrels? There is also a T stamp that might indicate this service was either done in 1970 or 1999. The bores are very shinny with no damage.

The wood has either been replaced or re furbished I can not tell the difference. The case colors have been re done as well. Tomorrow morning I hope to get another look at the markings now that I have visited this site.

With all of the changes I do not think this Parker is worth much. My hope is that it is a shooter and will perform well during sporting clays and 5 stand. I would love to be able to participate in some of the Vintage events.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome. I am looking for guidance. :banghead:

[Dave Suponski]

Archie, The gun in question is not a V grade gun. Vulcan grade guns started around serial number 88600 or so. Most likely this gun is a grade 1,2 or 3 that was built as a damascus barreled gun and had the Vickers barrels fitted later. Get us some good quality pictures and we can tell you what you have.If the 3 stamp is on the water table that would indicate a grade 3 or D grade gun.

[Archie Sturdivant III]

Archie, The gun in question is not a V grade gun. Vulcan grade guns started around serial number 88600 or so. Most likely this gun is a grade 1,2 or 3 that was built as a damascus barreled gun and had the Vickers barrels fitted later. Get us some good quality pictures and we can tell you what you have.If the 3 stamp is on the water table that would indicate a grade 3 or D grade gun.

Thank you for your quick reply. I will visit the shop first thing in the morning for some pictures. This could get interesting.

If everything is in working order I will still purchase the gun. As a shooting friend of mine often says, " It spoke to me".:bigbye:

[Dave Noreen]

The Vickers barrels have nothing to do with Parker Bros. or Remington Arms Co., Inc. The Vickers barrels were sold by Atlas Arms Inc. of Chicago in the 1960s --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Parker/AtlasArmsParkerBarrels.jpg

[Archie Sturdivant III]

Thank you for the good information Researcher. Every little bit helps.

Actually this bit of information is huge.

You guys are great.

[Brian Dudley]

I always like coming across other Parkers with Vickers barrels. I own a P grade with Vickers barrels. I know that Ed Good here has one too. And I saw a 20g. on GB not long ago that had them as well.

Mine are 12g.
Tops of both barrel tubes are marked E.S.C. Gia' Vickers & C.
The flats are just marked "Crown" over NITRO with 2-3/4" stamped next to that.
The bottoms of the barrel tubes are both stamped 18,3 and 17,2 (the second number is 17,6 on the other tube).
They are 26" long and both tubes choked I/M

The fit of my barrels are good except for the dolls head sits a bit low compared to the frame.

I can see replacement barrels being done for guns like mine years ago since the barrels on a P grade would have been twist. But the V grade you are looking at would have been fluid steel. Unless the Vickers were an extra set and now the originals are lost or maybe they got damaged.

Of course, the value of the V grade you are looking at is relegated to a shooter. The value of the buy as a shooter is completely dependant on the price.

[chris dawe]

Archie,I have nothing different to offer about the gun value ,the boy's passed along good info....but I would like to know what that fish is,you're holding up in your avatar.

All the best ,and welcome !

[Archie Sturdivant III]

That is some sort of nasty saltwater eel caught off of the coast of northern NJ. They were all over the bottom. They would put up a good fight but were all returned to the sea.

[Archie Sturdivant III]

Pictures are in my album. Please advise.

[Brian Dudley]

Thanks a lot for posting the album of pictures. What you are looking at there is a P grade. Not a V grade. It is an earlier gun that would have originally had twist barrels. And the Fishtail top lever was not uncommon on these guns.
The receiver has cyanide type case colors. Much like how Delgreco would restore them.
The barrels are not Vickers made like the ones that I have on my P grade. They are original Parker Damascus barrels that have been cut off at the monoblock and then sleeved with new Vickers tubes.
The grade and guages markings on the sides of the locking lug are indicitive of later Remington made Parkers.
This gun has a LOT of extra stampings and markings. Many look like proof and identification marks from when the barrels were sleeved.
What is the asking price on the gun? If all is functional and the price is under $1,500 I would say that it is a diecent buy for a shooter.

[Archie Sturdivant III]

They are asking for $1,200. I think this is very reasonable.

I have it on layaway and should have it in my safe in 8 weeks. Thank you for the analysis.

I do have a question. How can you tell what was done to the barrels? Is it a stamp, a weld mark, or was that an accepted practice?

[charlie cleveland]

dont yall wish we could get a new sey of barrels and get them fitted for about a hundred bucks...some of my old ten ga s would be sporting some vickers 3 1/2 inch chambers... good luck on the gun.... charlie

[calvin humburg]

Hello, what did you catch that ell on? That 12 will make you a good gun.

[Archie Sturdivant III]

Well now that was 2 hobbies ago. A Van Stahl 300 vs reel with 80 lbs braid with a top shot of 100 lbs mono. A 6 foot medium heavy Tsunami boat rod with a 12 or 14 ounce diamond jig tipped with a clam or squid.

Big fun. The boat had heated rails and 20 or so bunks. We left the docs at midnight and woak up to breakfast from the gally. We sailed for 8 hours then started to fish.

The vessel was the Voyager and we were fishing for cod.

[Brian Dudley]

The fact that there is that ring around the barrels in front of the chambers tells me that they were sleeved. Some people who did this would would dress up the seam with engraving like yours has. And others would leave it a nice smooth transition into the new barrels. If it is done correctly it can be hard to see the seam sometimes. Usually it is visable in the right light.

[Daryl Corona]

Archie,
Would this gun happen to be in a gunshop in Glen Burnie, MD?

[Archie Sturdivant III]

Yes sir.

Have you seen it in person?

[Daryl Corona]

Archie,
No I have'nt seen it in person but Jack, the owner, called me about it and I think you would be very satisfied with that gun. He is a straight up guy and very honest. I assume you live in MD. as I do. Send me a PM if I can help you in your examination of the gun or we can meet to shoot it if you buy it. Good luck.
Daryl

[Archie Sturdivant III]

Yes Dary. Jack Bart is a straight up guy who runs an honest operation. Thanks for the offer. I will send you a PM once I pick up the Parker.

[Archie Sturdivant III]

The OP here.

I was worried about the condition of the barrels. I had a talk with Jack Bart the shop owner and he says the barrels are not sleved. They are replacements made of fluid steel. I was thinking of not going thru with this acquisition but have changed my mind.

All engines ahead full Mr. Sulu.

I might get Briley to install thin wall chokes and place a Pachmayr leather pad on the butt.

[Brian Dudley]

The barrels are sleeved. When I say sleeved, I mean monoblocked as some call it. Jack might have thought about tube inserts or something when you mentioned sleeved.
Like I said, what was done was the ribs were removed, the barrels were cut off in front of the chambers and new tubes were fitted (or sleeved) to the original monoblock. Then the ribs reinstalled.
It is a fine way to rebuild a set of barrels if the person doing it knew what they were doing.
I have a double rifled slug gun being build right now with this same method.

[Archie Sturdivant III]

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I apologize for the confusion.

I took possession of my AyA 4/53 on Saturday. Will shoot a round of sporting clays with my brother on the fourth. Today is my birthday. I am afraid while I am on the course I will be thinking of the Parker.

Thanks again.

[Eric Estes]

Happy Birthday!

[Archie Sturdivant III]

Thanks.

[Brian Dudley]

Not much better to do on your birthday than go out and shoot a round or two.