Barrel Weight Markings and Frame Size

[Eric Estes]

I picked up a nice 12 ga lifter yesterday. Serial number 11009. It is a light weight. The unstruck barrels weigh 3 lb 11 oz. I am trying to square this up with the stamps on the flats. I see a 4 where I would expect to see unstruck barrel weight and then over to the left of it a 13. Does anyone know how I should interpret this? The 30" barrels are uncut and the thinnest spot is .040 so there is not much if any missing.
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The other thing I am pondering is the frame size. There is no stamp on the foot of the rear lug to indicate. There is what may be a 1 stamped on curve of the second lug. Measuring shows 1 1/16" between pins so I figure a #1 frame. Then I take some other measurements and from the chart in the serialization book page 45 it looks more like a 1/2 frame. All the other frame measurements are exact for a 1/2 frame size. There is some case color on the frame yet and all the eges and features are nice and sharp so it has not been overpolished. Isn't this gun much too early for a 1/2 frame?
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Thanks.

[Dean Romig]

Yes, your gun is too early to be a 1/2 frame but several of the frame dimensions of a 1 Frame and a 1/2 Frame are the same. Yours is a 1 Frame without question.
The barrels may very easily have had a pre-struck weight of four pounds exactly and the 4 appears to have been stamped in the right location for the weight.
The 13 stamp is puzzling. The gauge is sometimes stamped here on some of the early lifters.... hmmm...

Coincidentally, 11009 is the part number for the pilot bearing in the rear of the crankshaft of all of the Volvo four-cylinder engines fitted with manual transmissions up to the early '80's when it was replaced by the 181393 sealed bearing. (useless bit of Volvo knowledge bouncing around the confines of my cranium)

[edgarspencer]

I picked up a nice 12 ga lifter yesterday. Serial number 11009. It is a light weight. The unstruck barrels weigh 3 lb 11 oz. I am trying to square this up with the stamps on the flats. I see a 4 where I would expect to see unstruck barrel weight .

I don't see how you've determined that "The unstruck barrels weigh 3 lb 11 oz." as the barrels are in a finished condition.
I agree, that the 4 may have been the actual unstruck weight, i.e. 4 lbs even, and it's hard to believe they would have removed 5 ounces of metal in the finishing process. Is the present barrel length correct, to the book?

[Eric Estes]

Edgar, I may be misunderstanding what "unstruck barrel weight" actually means then. I am a rank beginner at this. :-) The number I came up with was weighing the barrels off the gun.

Yes, the barrel length matches what is in the serialization book.

Thanks.

[Bill Murphy]

Many of the frame dimensions on page 527 of TPS refer only to the hammerless frames. Actually, only the firing pin separation figures in this chart of of use to hammer gun collectors. There are some off frames in early Parkers, but do not use the 1/2 size terminlology.

[Eric Estes]

Got it. That explains it. I will not worry about the rest of that chart unless I am looking at a hammerless gun. Thanks Bill.

1 frame 12 gauges are a fairly common configuration aret they? I do need to get a copy of TPS soon.

Well it is a pretty nice gun. I will share some pictures when I am done cleaning it up.

[Eric Estes]

Any thoughts as to what the "13" might mean?

[edgarspencer]

Eric, the process of finishing the barrels, after soldering, is called 'striking'. It involves cleaning up excess solder, and generally file finishing the barrels. The stamped weight reflects the weight before finishing, and can be nearly the same when finished, or up to a few ounces less.

[Eric Estes]

Thanks Edgar. I had misunderstood exactly what that meant.

[Bill Murphy]

Eric, I meant to say that there are some "odd" frames in early hammer guns, but my time to correct my post was up when I found my error. Yes, the #1 frame is quite common in 12 gauge hammer guns, especially in the lower grades.

[ed good]

if you weigh the barrels with the forend, it is surprising how close you sometimes come to the weight stamped on the barrel flat....

[edgarspencer]

Ed makes not only a good point, but one I can't believe I forgot to mention; The weight stamped includes the fore end.

[Eric Estes]

Well that all makes sense now. I had wondered that, seeing a similar difference on the other two I have that seemed to able to be filled in by the fore end weight. Thanks Ed and Edgar.

That leaves the remaining mystery of what the "13" signifies. Unless someone knows I suppose on this older gun before their markings became more uniform it could mean any number of things.

[Dave Suponski]

Yes it is true that 9 times out of 10 the barrel weight stamp is almost spot on when included with the forend assembly. But we know this is not the case. Its just a coincidence.

[edgarspencer]

Eric, I no longer have my copy of the TPS, but many on here do. It probably is noted in there. I would guess it's an inspectors mark.

[davidweirjr]

Need to know if I can blue my Damascus. Barrel on.my 1878 parker

[Dean Romig]

David, why would you want to do that?

[Robin Lewis]

David,

I suggest you read and follow the links on this web page and look at how wonderful damascus barrels look. IMHO, blue has little to offer when compared to a damascus pattern!

http://parkerguns.org/pages/faq/DamascusTypes.htm

[Mark Landskov]

Here is a photo of my 1877 vintage 12 gauge Lifter with 32" barrels. It also has '13' stamped on the right barrel.

[Bill Zachow]

I am sure that I have read somewheres that the 13 signifies the unfinished bore size on barrel blanks Parker purchased from Belgium or England. Parker would then bore and finish to 12 gauge.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Eric, Book says you have a late 1877 O grade lifter with 30" barrels, straight stock, in 12gauge. Looks like a nice piece enjoy it! Gary