Parker A grade

[edward mccay]

Looking at a gun SN#60000 all matching serial numbers 10gauge. It is in really nice condition. Any idea what I should pay for it "range". Pics to follow. The gun was found in an attic.

[Jim DiSpagno]

Should have 30" barrels and a capped pistol grip stock no extras and the barrel flats should have a D for damascus with possibly a small number such as a4 or 6 near it That is the grade of damascus{ #of wire strands}

[Dean Romig]

Actually, beginning with the Grade 5 or B Grade the barrel flats are often - but not always - stamped with a DD (likely indicative of "finest Damascus") rather than a single D and the grade numeral stamp of 6, in this case, is normally stamped closer to the breech end of the flats.

[edward mccay]

Yeah every thing is right on. I dont have a clue what to offer the guy

[Dean Romig]

Two years ago I bought a nice A Grade 12 gauge for $9K from a very reputable dealer. It was also in the 60k serial number range and was a lovely example of A Grade wood, checkering and fabulous engraving. After two days I sent it back because I wasn't entirely pleased with it. The dealer took it back 'no questions asked' for a full refund.

My point is that if it is as nice as you make it sound it is a valuable gun. It will be worth exactly what you and the current owner decide is a fair price.

[edward mccay]

pics

[Bill Murphy]

Didn't seem to make it.

[Stephen Hodges]

I posted these for Edward.

[Stephen Hodges]

More Pics

[edward mccay]

Anyone have an idea what would be a good offer price for the gun?

[edgarspencer]

Honestly, the pictures just aren't crisp enough to get a feel for the condition.

[greg conomos]

Agreed...the pics are too blurry. Those hammer marks on the water table are not too cool. It also looks like the stock might be cracked above the trigger guard area?

Either way, the gun is not in great shape...it looks like it might be fair condition.

[Pete Lester]

Actually, beginning with the Grade 5 or B Grade the barrel flats are often - but not always - stamped with a DD (likely indicative of "finest Damascus") rather than a single D and the grade numeral stamp of 6, in this case, is normally stamped closer to the breech end of the flats.

I prefer the DD's if they are original :whistle:

[edward mccay]

There is a small crack above the trigger guard. I would say it is in fair condition. But how many A6 in original condition. Even in fair condition I wonder how much I should pay.

[Mark Ouellette]

Edward,

It is very hard to judge without gun in hand or good photos. That stated, AH guns are rare and desirable. If the engraving is sharp, the barrels are not pitted or honed, and the stock isn't cracked and full of wood putty in spots you found a keeper!

Price range from $5,000 to $15,000, maybe more. I like 10 gauges so for me, and a few guys like me, that's a very desirable gun! Many others would not give a darn about a 10 gauge. To each their own.

An AH Parker sells for real money. It's best to get a mentor to help you value one of them. Why don't you state where you live and ask for the help of another PGCA member who lives close to you. You need someone who really knows the value of a high grade Parker.

[Mike Shepherd]

I let my Blue Book esubscription expire. Could someone post the range of prices for an AH 10 gauge from 20% to 90% condition? He has tried to comply with our requests but still doesn't have a price range.


Best,

Mike

[Dean Romig]

Anyone have an idea what would be a good offer price for the gun?


First Edward, what does the owner expect to be paid for it?

Have you asked him or is he leaving it up to you to make an offer?

What amount would you part with in order to have it in your possession?

It is difficult from the poor quality of those pictures to discern the condition of every part of that gun in great detail, however, it looks to be well used and shows distinct signs of a good amount of wear.

Would you be comfortable with parting with $6K ? If so, make the offer... or are you afraid he'll accept your offer?

Just thinkin' out loud...

[Gill Frye]

A couple years ago at the Southern there was a similar AH and I think the price was 9500, I don't know if it sold or not. I do know that the dealer bought it for 7500 before he put it on his table, it was a 12ga. What I really liked about it was the half pistol grip with gold cap, I have a fetish for those.
Regards,
Gill

[Stephen Hodges]

I prefer the DD's if they are original :whistle:

But usually not, IMHO:eek:

[Mark Ouellette]

Yup,

An AH 10 for $6k is a good price if it is not a wreck. If you do not like it you should be able to get your money out of it and maybe more from someone who will enjoy owning it. Please keep me in mind. Heck, an AH 12 followed me home this week that you might like... :whistle:

Mark

[George Lander]

Judging by the apparent condition and with the limited information and blurred pictures I think that $4,000 - $6,000 would be fair starting point. That would leave some room for expert restoration. JMHO

Best Regards, George

[Ed Blake]

If this was on your website George, how much would you want to get out of it on an as is basis?

[Ray Masciarella]

For whatever it's worth, it looks like the stock has been replaced. I say that because it appears to have the later AH pattern. I don't think that affects it's value tho. It is what it is, a nice old gun.

[Steve Huffman]

Ok Im to lazy to get out my book nor do I remember but has the roll pin been switched on this gun or is it old enough that it doesnt have a slot ?

[Bill Murphy]

Ed, you probably have enough interest on this thread to resell it for a pretty good profit. Go ahead and make a reasonable offer then sell it to one of us. In the meantime, get some good pictures. Where was that attic?

[Dean Romig]

It is too early to have the slotted pin.

[George Lander]

Ed: I price the guns on my website on the basis of what I have in them. If I bought this Parker for 6K I would price it at 7.5K "as is". I try to make @ 25% over the cost.

Best Regards, George

[edward mccay]

Thanks for all of the helpfull information. I am going to buy the gun tonight. I will upload pic as soon as I get it home.

[Mark Ouellette]

I am already envious!!

Good for you Edward!

[Russ Jackson]

Actually, beginning with the Grade 5 or B Grade the barrel flats are often - but not always - stamped with a DD (likely indicative of "finest Damascus") rather than a single D and the grade numeral stamp of 6, in this case, is normally stamped closer to the breech end of the flats.

I knew I had a picture of this some where ,AHA ,Found It ! Russ

[Ray Masciarella]

I agree with dean that is has the correct pin.

I think I've been BH, AH and up gun with just a single "D" on flats, tho it would be usual apparently.

That gun would be a bargain, IMHO, at 4-6k.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks for the picture of the "DD" Damascus barrel flats Russ.

[Ray Masciarella]

Did you buy it?

[Russ Jackson]

Thanks for the picture of the "DD" Damascus barrel flats Russ.

Dean ,You are Welcome !! I knew I had a picture of the DD on the flats ,I wanted to post it closer to your post but overlooked it and had a few minutes today and went back and sure enough right there with the rest of the A Grade pictures ,right where I left it ! Man ,I hate when I do that !:banghead:

[edward mccay]

Bought the gun. It was in the guys family for four generations. It was originally on a plantion in NC. The gun cam with a photo album from the original owner. showing the plantion the owner with the gun and the farm workers. "It was very neat.

[Dean Romig]

It would make for a very fine Parker Pages article.

Please contact me at dsromig@aol.com if you would be willing to do this.

Dean

[edward mccay]

more pics

[edward mccay]

more pics

[Ray Masciarella]

Congratulations! Look like a fine gun. Wish it were mine. Did you purchase it with the price range suggested here? If so, you got a bargain.

[George Lander]

Edward: You did good! Especially since you got some history & even pictures of your Parker with it's original owner. To me that's just as important as owning the gun itself. Now see what else you can find out about it and do submit the results to Parker Pages. We would all enjoy reading about it.

Best Regards, George

[edward mccay]

...

[edward mccay]

Hi all. I am thinking about geting the gun restored. What is your option on this? Is it better to keep it original?

[Dean Romig]

If you have it "restored" you must do it right or you will destroy value. You must have the right person or people do the job correctly. Above all else, Do No Harm to it. The wrong choice can ruin its value. A Grades are rare enough without eliminating one more of them from the pool of nice ones. If it were me I would think long and hard about it... and I probably wouldn't do anything to it besides a good cleaning and possibly putting it back on-face if it is off-face.

And it will be expensive to do it right.

[Mark Ouellette]

Edward,

Get you and your AH to Hausmann's Hidden Hollow the first weekend in June. There will be plenty of Parker collectors and Parker gunsmiths there to evaluate your AH.

Decide what to do after you know what you have...

A restoration will cost much and take a long time!

Mark

[Mike Shepherd]

I always try to keep a gun a year before I do anything major and irreversible. I have the triggers done, the action tightened etc... but as far as refinishing or bluing barrels I always wait. I usually wind up not doing anything at all.

Best,


Mike

[George Lander]

Edward: Dean is correct. Think long and hard before opting for a full restoration. A restored Parker is just that! In doing so you will, most probably, not enhance the value beyond where it is now and could, possibly, decrease it. A good cleaning in & out would be fine, but before going further show it to some of the members here who know. IMHO

Best Regards, George

[edward mccay]

Is there any members near NJ that would be willing to take a look at the Old A grade.

[Ray Masciarella]

Ed

Why don't you post rally good photos of the gun. This way many of us can really see what you have. Then we may be able to give you a better opinion.

From what I can see, it looks like a nice gun. Doesnt appear damaged or completely worn out. Have you had the barrel thickness measured? I'd do that first. If they are too thin, that would eliminate a restoration, IMO. If the barrels are good, I'd find someone who you are sure can pick up the engraving without ruining it and give you a quote. You'll probably have sticker shock. That may have a big affect on your decision.

No matter, it will probably be worth less then what you have into it after a correct restoration. That's just the way it is. I've restored everything from antique cars to guns, and if done correctly, I was always upside down. But it would be cool to see a brand new AH. If I really wanted one, I would do it if I had a gun that was really worn out.

Ray

[Richard Flanders]

I wouldn't touch the engraving. I'd like handling it and thinking about how much time the gun spent in someones hand to have worn the engraving a bit smooth like it is. It's unbelievable really. How can a human hand wear engraving like that?? What a great honest gun. I like it just the way it is. I'd make sure it's functionally sound and safe and take care of any corrosion and wood issues it might have such as oil soaking and thin finish but that's about it.

[edward mccay]

Thanks Chuck

[Rick Losey]

Wow

That is a lot of history on this gun, a great example of why letters are important

[edward mccay]

pics

[Chuck Bishop]

Well, I'm new at this job and I screwed up Ed's letter. Can any one of you Parker detectives tell me what I did wrong.

Don't worry Ed, a revised letter will go out tomorrow.

[Mark Ouellette]

A 4 digit serial number, "6000".

[Chuck Bishop]

Mark, you got it! In my own defense, Ed did have 6000 on his request form but all the information is correct.

Also, if you read the letter, this gun was ordered by C.E.P. in 1890 but not shipped to Laughton until 1892. I didn't put the 1890 in the letter but I will on the revised letter. I got to thinking if this gun was built for an exposition so I got out TPS. It wasn't built for an exposition but it is listed as one of the many guns ordered by Charles Eddy Parker. According to TPS, some were built for individuals, some were sent to dealers, some were show displays, and some remained in stock for several years. Many could have been used as salesman's samples. TPS authors state that these C.E.P. guns were special in every way.

Contrats, Ed.

[edward mccay]

Chuck,

Thank you taking the time to do the extra reserch on the Parker. Thast an amazing amount of information. The gun is certianly very special.

Ed

Mark, you got it! In my own defense, Ed did have 6000 on his request form but all the information is correct.

Also, if you read the letter, this gun was ordered by C.E.P. in 1890 but not shipped to Laughton until 1892. I didn't put the 1890 in the letter but I will on the revised letter. I got to thinking if this gun was built for an exposition so I got out TPS. It wasn't built for an exposition but it is listed as one of the many guns ordered by Charles Eddy Parker. According to TPS, some were built for individuals, some were sent to dealers, some were show displays, and some remained in stock for several years. Many could have been used as salesman's samples. TPS authors state that these C.E.P. guns were special in every way.

Contrats, Ed.

[George Lander]

Ed: I believe that Larry DelGrego is somewhere in your neighborhood but I don'y have his address or phone number. I'm sure that someone here does.

Best Regards, George

[Rick Losey]

Ed: I believe that Larry DelGrego is somewhere in your neighborhood but I don'y have his address or phone number. I'm sure that someone here does.

Best Regards, George

Isn't the DelGreco shop still in Ilion NY?


http://parkershotgunrepair.com/parker_shotgun_contactus.html

[edward mccay]

Thinking about selling the gun any ideas.

[Rick Losey]

Thinking about selling the gun any ideas.

well; you asked what you should pay in the early posts and had suggestions,

the same advise would be true to the next purchaser.


decide what you would like to get and, since you are a member - post it in the for sale section here

[George Lander]

Isn't the DelGreco shop still in Ilion NY?


http://parkershotgunrepair.com/parker_shotgun_contactus.html

Rick: Yes it is & I believe that Ed said that he was in New Jersey.

Best Regards, George

[Bill Murphy]

Ed, I replied to your PM today. Did you get the reply? Thanks.

[Ray Masciarella]

The letter posted raises more questions then it answers. What happened between the date it was made (1890) and when it was shipped to Laughton? Most CEP guns remained in stock to show off Parker's craftsmanship but when sold they were usually sold at a discount. It doesn't appear that was the case here. It was sent to him as sample but doesn't answer question of what Parker did with it until then.

Looks like it was sold to Cassady at usual discount for gun that had been "handled", ie not new. But it must have been returned since it was eventually sent to big NY dealer at an even deeper discount. Might have been returned because it was easy to sell such a high dollar gun in Butte whereas there was a lot of rich folks in NYC.

These CEP guns lead interesting lives. Some went to big expos to be displayed by Parker, some to dealers to be displayed at smaller regional expos, some to dealers as samples (such as this one) and others who knows.

Ed, which state did it end up when you bought it? Where did the fella in the photos live? When did he buy it, and where? Would be interesting to know these answers.

It is also interesting that it only has one dog on frame and one stag on floorplate. Most AHs of this time had two dogs and at least three stags (when stags were used). This gun has more scroll engraving to make up difference in space. With that said, I've seen some like it but it's not the typical.

I'm surprised the letter doesn't mention a stock replacement. The wear on gun is not commensurate with the wear on stock and the stock has the later checkering pattern leading me to believe it was replaced by Parker, which was not at all unusual. A deeper look at the records may address this and anser some of the other questions.

With regards to restoring it, it doesnt have much finish and it does have a lot of wear but no way I'd restore it. It is what it is and it is - a very cool gun with an interesting history so why mess with it? Someone long ago thought enough of it to give it a lot of use and it's part it's charm.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Ed, goodmluck with it whatever you do!

[edward mccay]

Ray,


I bought the gun in NJ it had been in an attic for the last 30 years. The pictures where taken in NC the guy I bought it off of it was his wives uncles. They owned a plantation down there I have a whole photo album of the guy with the gun with alagators, deer and ducks "even former slaves". The gun was then owned by the guys son who was a steamship captain. Then it was given to the guy I bought it from.

[Ray Masciarella]

Not sure if I understand. The fella in the photo lived in NJ and went down to NC to hunt? Makes sense the gun was in NJ since it ended up in NYC to be sold ultimately.

[edward mccay]

The fella in the photo lived in NC on a plantailon. When he died it was given to his son who was a steamship captain. He died and gave it to the guy I bought it off of who happend to live in NJ.

[edward mccay]

updated letter

[Ray Masciarella]

Ed, did you get my PM?