Retracting firing pins.

[Bob Dombeck]

I have a 12ga VH that I received back after having some stock refinishing work done. The firing pins are sticking out now and I don't recall it looking like this before. I can put the barrels on and then the forearm and close the gun but when I try and open the gun again the extractor hits the firing pins as they are not retracting.
Here are a couple of pictures of the receiver as it looks now.
http://s260.photobucket.com/albums/ii1/Parker-VH/?action=view&current=DSCN0763.jpg
http://s260.photobucket.com/albums/ii1/Parker-VH/?action=view&current=DSCN0762.jpg

I'm not sure what the tab/lever is called at the front of the water table that is sticking up now but I don't recall it sticking up like this before either.
Any help would be appreciated as I'm planning on taking this gun after some turkeys starting on Monday.
Thank you.
Bob

[Dean Romig]

Try closing the gun on a pair of snap caps and then trip the triggers. Upon opening the gun again the hammers should cock and unless you have non-rebounding hammers there should be no hang up.

That tab that is sticking up is in the correct position. It lifts the extractor as the gun is opened.

No amount of stock refinishing should have affected any of the mechanical operation.

[Bob Dombeck]

Thanks much Dean. I'll have to buy a set of snap caps as I don't have any but that's no problem. Hopefully that's all it needs!

[Dean Romig]

You can use empty hulls with fired primers in place of snap caps.

[Bob Dombeck]

I tried the empty hull deal and no luck. I put the shells in the barrels, put the barrels on the receiver, closed up the gun, put on the forerarm, pulled the trigger, nothing. I can see as I slowly close the barrels without the forearm in place that the pins don't retract at all.
I don't recall that little lever(?) on the front of the water table sticking up like it is now. Shouldn't that be lying flat with the barrels off of the gun?, maybe not?
I know the stock was removed from the gun for refinishing so I'm hoping something isn't wrong there. I don't think it's assembled wrong in any way as he seemed very comfortable with the disassembly/assembly.

[charlie cleveland]

look at the cocking lever on the barrel...if it is worn to much it will not let the hammers cock...this same thing happened to me...i shot the gun cleaned it up and would not fire...took it apart ..just forearm and barrel off...discovered the cocking hook was worn i took a piece of paper card board like on a cracker box etc made a small shim out of it put it on the cocking hook replaced barrels on gun put on the forearm...im turkey hunting with it rite now..ive probably shot a box or more through it and its still shooting...this is not a permant fix but will get you ready for turkey season...hope this is your problem and i bet it is... charlie

[edgarspencer]

was the stock removed when it was refinished? If so, it may not have been put back together correctly and is not cocking the hammers.

[Bob Dombeck]

The stock was removed but I don't think that is the problem as he seemed comfortable with the disassembly process. I don't think the cocking hook would go bad all of the sudden as it has never acted up in any way previously.
So that lever on the front of the water table is supposed to be sticking up like it is in the pictures as I don't recall it looking like that before?
Any other ideas?

[Brian Dudley]

Yes, the lever on the front of the action is the lifter for the extractor. All parkers have this and the part does not move. If the hammers/pins are not retracting back after about 1/4inch of opening the breech, then the cocking hook is not engaging with the cam. By the look of your photos, it appears that the cam is in the right position.

[Dean Romig]

Maybe he put the cocking slide back in upside down :shock:

*only rookies do that*

[Brian Dudley]

If that were the case, I do not think the trigger plate would fully seat. That would be clear if that were the case.

[charlie cleveland]

quack me up my gun went from shooting one secound and then would not cock the hammers the next time i tried shooting it...i know the little shim i made outa paper made the gun shoot and still is i will do a proper fix after turkey season...it want take 5 minutes to try what iu said...you aint got nothing to lose...the little shim can be made outa of a cracker box such as a saltine cracker box about 1/4 x1/4 inch in size... charlie

[Dave Suponski]

Really Dean.....:whistle:

[charlie cleveland]

yes really dean.... charlie only trying to help the fellow....

[Brian Dudley]

Here are a few things to check...

With the back half apart from the barrels. Just like it is in your photos. Refering to your second photo. Inside the water table you will see the cocking cam. This is the silver piece down inside the groove. The cocking cam is what is lifted by the cocking hook and operates the cocking slide. Under that cam is the unhooking slide. With the front of the action facing you, push in on that pin that sticks out of the front of the hinge pin area (on left side when looking at it as in your second photo). This is the pin that needs to be pushed in by the forend when puttin git on. When pushing in on this pin you should be able to look down in and see just the tip of the unhooking slide move in and out under the cocking cam. That is all that will move. If that is working, then the unhooking slide is good.

With the barrels on and forend off, the barrels should go on and off freely with no obstruction.

With the barrels on and the Forend ON, start to open the breech. If the tips of the pins do not start to retract after about 1/4" of opening, then they are not cocking. Another note is that the extractor SHOULD be timed correctly so that it will not hit even the uncocked pins while opening. Both of my Parkers that I am looking at here will not hit. I actually have to pull the extractor forward with a thin screwdriver or something to get them to contact the pins when opening. And that is when I do not have the end on as to simulate a gun that is not cocking.
Another thing if it is not too much is to take the extractor right out of the barrels. This is done by removing just one screw on the bottom of the barrel locking lug, in front of the cocking hook. Then the extractor pulls out the breech end.
Removing the extractor will allow you to open the action fully with the forend on and have the extractor not hit the pins. When the breech is fully open this way, you can see the cam being lifted near the end of travel. That is IF the gun is cocking.

The final (or even first thing) to check is the actual cocking hook on the barrels. This should be sticking down perpendicular to the direction of the barrels. there is a spring behind it and it should have firm pressure when pushed towards the muzzle. And it should spring back. Your issue might be a sticking cocking hook or even a broken cocking hook spring. If the cocking hook is not in the perpendicular position, then it will not engage with the cocking cam and the gun will not cock.

[Dean Romig]

If that were the case, I do not think the trigger plate would fully seat. That would be clear if that were the case.

In fact the trigger plate seated perfectly and gave no clue that some dummy had reinstalled the part upside down. The forend however, would not seat to the frame.

[Brian Dudley]

Well at least there was some indication.

[Bob Dombeck]

[
Brian the firing pins are not retracting at all when opening the barrels with the Forearm in place and the cocking hook spring seems fine. I can put the barrels on and off without the forearm in place but the firing pins never retract.
The top lever can't be moved to the center closed position with the barrels off. Is this normal?
Thank you all for trying to help. I appreciate it.
Bob


QUOTE=Brian Dudley;67732]Here are a few things to check...

With the back half apart from the barrels. Just like it is in your photos. Refering to your second photo. Inside the water table you will see the cocking cam. This is the silver piece down inside the groove. The cocking cam is what is lifted by the cocking hook and operates the cocking slide. Under that cam is the unhooking slide. With the front of the action facing you, push in on that pin that sticks out of the front of the hinge pin area (on left side when looking at it as in your second photo). This is the pin that needs to be pushed in by the forend when puttin git on. When pushing in on this pin you should be able to look down in and see just the tip of the unhooking slide move in and out under the cocking cam. That is all that will move. If that is working, then the unhooking slide is good.

With the barrels on and forend off, the barrels should go on and off freely with no obstruction.

With the barrels on and the Forend ON, start to open the breech. If the tips of the pins do not start to retract after about 1/4" of opening, then they are not cocking. Another note is that the extractor SHOULD be timed correctly so that it will not hit even the uncocked pins while opening. Both of my Parkers that I am looking at here will not hit. I actually have to pull the extractor forward with a thin screwdriver or something to get them to contact the pins when opening. And that is when I do not have the end on as to simulate a gun that is not cocking.
Another thing if it is not too much is to take the extractor right out of the barrels. This is done by removing just one screw on the bottom of the barrel locking lug, in front of the cocking hook. Then the extractor pulls out the breech end.
Removing the extractor will allow you to open the action fully with the forend on and have the extractor not hit the pins. When the breech is fully open this way, you can see the cam being lifted near the end of travel. That is IF the gun is cocking.

The final (or even first thing) to check is the actual cocking hook on the barrels. This should be sticking down perpendicular to the direction of the barrels. there is a spring behind it and it should have firm pressure when pushed towards the muzzle. And it should spring back. Your issue might be a sticking cocking hook or even a broken cocking hook spring. If the cocking hook is not in the perpendicular position, then it will not engage with the cocking cam and the gun will not cock.[/QUOTE]

[edgarspencer]

I still suspect the cocking slide, not the hook. The slide is inside, beneath the trigger plate. It may not be engaged with the crank, that the cocking hook on the barrel connects too.
No, the lever should not return to center with the barrels open. Don't try to force it over either, or you may damage the pin which keeps it open.
Somewhere on here is a sticky that Brian Dudley posted about disassembly. With his good pictures, you will see the square hole on the forward end of the cocking slide, which must fit over the crank.

[John Campbell]

Mr. Quack:
Many good members have tried to help with good advice. But without inspecting the gun, it is difficult to tell what the issue is. However... if the gun worked before you gave it off for stock finish, and it is not working now, there is likely something inside the action that is incorrectly assembled or broken... or missing altogether.

I suspect the cocking slide was not properly engaged with the cocking crank. But that's just a suspicion.

If I were you, I'd take the gun to a responsible gunsmith, familiar with Parkers, and have it looked into. The fellow who mucked with the last time is not likely to know what he did wrong.

Best, Kensal

[edgarspencer]

http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=307

Look at picture #13 in Brian's group of pictures. Uou'll see the square hole on the end of the cocking slide, and the crank, up in the front of the action. The crank must fit over the crank, and I don't think it is.

[Bob Dombeck]

Brian the unhooking slide seems to do as you mentioned. When I push in the pin on the front the slide tip moves also.