Normal Parker Drop?

[Sam Hershfield]

I've got two Parker 12 Gauge VH's that according to my measurements both have a drop at the heel of 3" and at the comb of 2".

Another collector warns me that " 1 3/4" x 2 3/4" is the most most people can handle. 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" is the prefered dimension by most shooters".

I laid the guns upside down on their ribs and measured down to the table surface. Did I measure incorrectly or is he incorrect? Thanks

[Dean Romig]

You measured them correctly Sam.

[Sam Hershfield]

Thanks! Are my too guns "abnormal" for VH 12a?

[Daryl Corona]

Nope.

[Sam Hershfield]

So, was he just plain wrong trying to get me to lower my prices? I feel like such a Parker novice. I really appreciate your help.

[Mike Shepherd]

I have four VH12s and all are with in an 1/8" of yours.

For me it is the same as shooting a 1-3/8 x 2 but instead of my putting cheekbone on the comb I put an area of my jaw on the comb. My head is not inclined as far forward as on the high stocked guns. I don't need cast off either. It took some practice to get the new mount where it was automatic but it came.

My flinch disappeared after I started shooting the big drop Parkers at clays.

I shoot clays better with the high stock gun if you don't count the birds I missed because of my flinch. Count those as lost and I am about the same.

Best,

Mike

[Daryl Corona]

He was working you Sam. Condition is what dictates price. Post some pics and we can better evaluate your guns

[Sam Hershfield]

If you'll give me your email, I'll send you two Powerpoints of my babies. Sam

[Daryl Corona]

Post them here if you can for everyone to see and offer their opinions. Just go to manage attachments and download.

[Sam Hershfield]

Sadly, they are too big for PGCA.

[Daryl Corona]

Maybe someone of a much higher IT IQ can help you compress them.

[David Holes]

I personally don't like 3 inches of drop. I can get by with 2 3/4 but prefer 2 1/2 for hunting guns. 3 inches of drop is common on older guns, but if you look long enough you will find dims. you like. My feeling is the guy is telling you the truth. Dave

[Sam Hershfield]

That would be great!

[Robin Lewis]

If you want to resize the picture check this out...... Shows how to get a picture that is to large to upload resized so you can load. (http://parkerguns.org/forums/../pages/faq/DemoMovie/PlayResizePictureVedio.html)

[Pete Lester]

Dimensions are an important criteria especially in a shooter grade (vs. collectable). Often we see guns for sale and the ad states "good" or "modern" dimensions, which is considered a plus. Seems shooters may have had a different style 100 years ago and many guns reflect that. The guns you mentioned have more drop than I like and when I see a gun with lots of drop it's factor in my decision. Sometimes it's too discouraging like the H&R 10ga grade 3, 2" by 3 1/4", I posted about the other day here, other times I factor in the $130-$150 more it will cost for a gunsmith to bend the stock (if it will move enough). Too much drop cause me to "float" my head on the stock to see the proper bead/rib picture, and that is not good and leads to more misses. Sometimes shooters compensate by attaching a neoprene or leather comb riser on the stock. in rare occasions the original stock is set aside and new one is custom built to the new owners specs (very pricey). Lots of drop affects value in the sense fewer people will be interested, it is a legitimate concern. The question is how much in terms of price.

[Pete Lester]

Maybe someone of a much higher IT IQ can help you compress them.

I have found a fairly simple method of posting pictures here and on other websites. I use a third party picture upload site, in my case photobucket. Once my picture is uploaded to photobucket I left click the "IMG code" (it will say "copied") below the picture and then right click here on the PGCA page when posting and "paste" the "IMG code" copied from photobucket. The IM code is nothing more than a web address (the URL) inside these commands webaddressgoeshere When finished it looks like this on the PGCA page:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/nhshotgunner/DHEstraightgrip.jpg

The e-mail link looks like this:

http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/nhshotgunner/?action=view&current=DHEstraightgrip.jpg

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Sam I have older guns that letter with 4 to 4-1/2 in of drop, back then it was what the buyer wanted to a certain extent, Parker would not do some things if there was danger involved to persons or the integrity of the gun!

[Dave Noreen]

I posted these on the AHFCA web site sometime back, so had them available in photobucket --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/AHFCA%20Inc/TheFitofShotGunStocks01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/AHFCA%20Inc/TheFitofShotGunStocks02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/AHFCA%20Inc/TheFitofShotGunStocks03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/AHFCA%20Inc/TheFitofShotGunStocks04.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/AHFCA%20Inc/TheFitofShotGunStocks05.jpg

I have a theory, that a lot of the guns that were built with what we consider "good dimensions" today, have been shot a lot, while these old guns with excessive drop kicked the original owners in the cheek so bad that they were shot very little, and remain for us today.

[Brian Dudley]

1.5" and 2.5" fits be perfect as well. I think that is a fairly common dimension for a lot of people now a days. It seems like 3" drops were pretty common in Parker's day, especially early on.

Actually, the comb dimension is in some ways more important. Since you place your cheek closer to the comb. I have had shotguns with 1.5" and 3" drops feel pretty nice.

[David Holes]

I have a 4 frame that had 4 inches of drop. My head floated all over that stock and I shot the worst ever. You can have all of them 4 inchers you want. Not me.

[Mike Shepherd]

I have a theory, that a lot of the guns that were built with what we consider "good dimensions" today, have been shot a lot, while these old guns with excessive drop kicked the original owners in the cheek so bad that they were shot very little, and remain for us today.

I feel unworthy to disagree with you as I hold you in awe in regard to all things to do with American doubles but for me the big drop Parkers don't bite my cheek at all. The comb touces my jaw right at the corner where my overworked jawbone goes from vertical to horizontal. I shoot a Parker with 3" of drop at a couple of thousand trap targets every year. It never bites my cheek and my flinch went completely away. I quit shooting competitive trap because of my flinch but I am thinking about going back at it with the big drop Parker. I also shoot a few hundred rounds a year through another 3'' dropped Parker at NSTRA field trials. Haven't noticed any kick from that gun at all. I like shooting Parkers with lots of drop.

Best,

Mike

[Leighton Stallones]

MUch to my surprise, my 1927 vintage VH 12 ga has a 3 inch drop at heel and 1 7/8 at comb.
I find that I mount the guns with more drop with my face further back and i believe that is the way the shooters years ago did it. The lower drops and faces further forward on the stock is a more recent phenomenom, particularly because of more target shooting and less bird shooting.

[Dave Noreen]

The latter part of the 1962 hunting season, after an incident with my Winchester Model 50, I used my Father's Remington Model 1894 AE-Grade 16-gauge that had a lot of drop, and it kicked my cheek something aweful. By the 1963 season I had my first Ansley H. Fox double, and my Father had made leather lace-on monte carlos for both his 12- and 16-gauge Remington Model 1894s. In the late 1970s the 16-gauge Remington was stolen out of his house, serial number P136036, if anyone happens across it!!

[Mike Shepherd]

MUch to my surprise, my 1927 vintage VH 12 ga has a 3 inch drop at heel and 1 7/8 at comb.
I find that I mount the guns with more drop with my face further back and i believe that is the way the shooters years ago did it. The lower drops and faces further forward on the stock is a more recent phenomenom, particularly because of more target shooting and less bird shooting.

I am also farther back on my stock and my head is not inclined toward the muzzle as much.

[Daryl Corona]

Dave,
You are telling me that you were registering s/n's back when you were 10yrs. old? I'm not surprised but you forgot to mention what grade of Fox you started out with. I'm on the lookout for your Dad's gun. Would'nt it be sweet to recover it?
I also agree with Mike in that a gun with 3"+ drop I can hunt with. I'm so focused on the bird as soon as the stock touches my cheek I slap the trigger. Now targets are a different story.

[Dave Noreen]

I was 16 in 1962. I have my Father's copy of the police report he filed after the break in. The thieves also got two Winchester Model 67 single shot .22s and my H & R .44 Caliber single shot which we found years later in a pawn shop in Seattle.

My first Fox was/is a 1928-vintage HE-Grade Super-Fox with two sets of barrels, original 32-inch Chromox and a later 28-inch set of Utica Special Alloy - Forged Steel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Hunting/Super-FoxOpenningDay1977.jpg

Openning Day 1977

[charlie cleveland]

what does the super fox way with the 32 inch barrels on her.... charlie

[Daryl Corona]

Your first Fox was an HE super Fox with 32" tubes. You're killing me Dave. Boy you even knew your Foxes back then, did'nt you. Do you remember what you paid for it back then? Great starter gun for a kid. I bet she did'nt slap your cheek, did she?

[Dave Noreen]

My Super-Fox weighs 8 3/4 pounds with the original 32-inch barrels and a shade over nine pounds with the 28-inch barrels. Balance is pretty near the same with either set.

After the 1962 hunting season, I was on the hunt for a double of my own. Finally by August 1963, I finally found the HE-Grade Super-Fox in a pawn shop in Tacoma. When I examined the gun it had non-original beavertail forearm wood on the 28-inch barrels. My Aunt and her husband were moving into a house they had bought a block away from our house and my Father made the deal that if I helped them with the move he would take my money and trade goods ($50, Model 50 12-gauge and Model 43 .22 Hornet) and go down to Tacoma and see if he could make a deal. When I got home from helping with the move, the Super-Fox as I'd seen it, the original forearm wood for the 28-inch barrels, and 2 1/2 boxes of pre WW-II Remington Arrow Express 3-inch 12-gauge shells with 1 5/8 ounces of #4 and #5 shot, were on the kitchen table. And, I owed my Father $40.

I didn't really know what I had, but a few years later when I was working for the Forest Service, I found a September 1955 issue of Outdoor Life which contained Nash Buckingham's article "Magnum Opus".

[Daryl Corona]

So you are telling us that your Dad found the original forend wood? I'm sure you know what those Rem. Arrow Express shells would be worth today. Neat story. Thanks.

[Bill Murphy]

Double Lab, one of our friends in common from tower and flyer shoots etc bought his first Fox at Duffy's Guns, in your neighborhood, off the shelf in the retail store. It was described and priced as a brown Sterlingworth, in the range of $400. It was a 32" Super Fox. He later bought his second Fox from a mutual friend of ours and a local gun dealer. It was and is a 32" HE 20 gauge.

[Daryl Corona]

Now you tell me. An HE 20ga.32" to boot - to die for! Tell me the "rest" of the story next weekend.

[Dave Noreen]

No. Just the pawn shop guy came up with the forearm wood and the shells as part of the package when he was closing the deal.