What's everyone using for ammo these days?

[Chris Travinski]

What are you guys shooting for ammo at 5 stand and sporting clays? Remington has 4 different STS loads in 1 1/8 oz, 1100, 1150, 1200 and 1235 fps. I have been using the 1150's in my 2 frame 12 ga with good success, do you think a steady diet of these will be ok or should I switch to an RST load? I see New Era gave up the battle recently so they're out. Curious about the experts opinion.
Thanks,
Chris

[edgarspencer]

Could get a little expensive using RST, but certainly lighter on the gun.

[Dean Romig]

I don't reload and use RST exclusively for both clays and upland hunting.

[Rick Losey]

I don't reload and use RST exclusively for both clays and upland hunting.

same here for the old guns, but then again - I don't shoot a lot of clays so that keeps the cost down.

[Dennis V. Nix]

As long as the barrels are in good condition and the stock is solid I can't possibly see how any of the Remington STS loads could possibly hurt that gun.

[John Dallas]

1 Oz. handloads with 800X

[Mike Shepherd]

Remington STS hulls, Claybuster XXL wads, 7/8oz of #8s. I shoot them in an 8-1/2 pound VH 12 with 32" barrels, choked full and fuller. Like shooting a 22.

Best,

Mike

[Dave Suponski]

I reload 12,16,20 and 28 gauge. All light loads. I like the convenience of being able to taylor my loads. I shoot 1oz.in 12 gauge and 16 gauge. 3/4oz. in 20 and 28 gauge.

I have shot a lot of RST's though and for those that don't reload they are the way to go in my opinion.

[Richard Flanders]

All my 12ga target loads are 1oz 1150fps. Do an experiment and count the pellet difference between 1oz and 1-1/8oz in #8 shot. You'll be amazed at how few it is. You could shoot 1-1/8oz 1150fps loads in that gun 24/7 for yrs and not even loosen it up.

[Mark Ouellette]

I shoot 7/8 oz 6000 PSI handloads for targets and nickle plated shot full boogie factory loads for pheasants!

For waterfowl I load moderate pressure short ten's with Nice Shot and shoot factory Kent Impact and Bismuth in 12 gauge.

I have used factory "promotional" 12 gauge rounds in 10 gauge Damascus with gauge mates with great success. The larger bore (11% surface area) will allow more room for the pressure to expand and produce somewhat less peak pressure. I'd shoot the same in a fluid steel Parker 10 gauge if I could ever find one within my limited price range... :)

The bottom line for me is for everyday shooting I keep the pressure and recoil low in 100+ year old guns. But for a few dozen shots at game each season I trust my Parkers (which are in good condition and have appropriate Minimum Barrel Wall Thickness) to safely shoot factory loads.

PS: If you do not handload I suggest visiting someone who does to watch and help. You might make a new friend and discover how fasinating loading your own ammo can be!!!

Mark

[Chris Travinski]

I wonder how much pressure is in the 1150 fps STS loads? The biggest issue is the price, a case of STS is around $80 and a case of RST is $130, but I do realize it's not a cheap hobbby.

[scott kittredge]

AA win hulls, silver for 8 shot and red for 7 1/2 shot, 15.5 grs 700-x, claybuster pink wad, 209p primer with 1 oz shot at 1100 fps and 6000 psi. very nice load and very clean bores afterwards. scott

[George M. Purtill]

I wonder how much pressure is in the 1150 fps STS loads? The biggest issue is the price, a case of STS is around $80 and a case of RST is $130, but I do realize it's not a cheap hobbby.

Man that is the best laugh i have had all week, maybe this month.
Not a cheap hobby. Ask my wife. Hell, even I have to admit that my passion for Parkers- started at age 16 and I'm 60 now- has kept me from having so much money that I became a drunk and a louse.
Now that I think of it, Parkers have probably been a health benefit.
Now that I think of it, Parkers may be some sort of tax deduction like a health club.
Now that i think of it, I will call my tax lawyer.
Oh crap- she's my wife- forget that.

[Chris Travinski]

After a little research, I think the load I've been using is around 11,000 psi. Is this acceptable, or too high? George, I'm can't figure your post, are you making a funny or are you busting my chops? What I was trying to say is that I realize a person (like my self) who is willing to shell out the bucks for a nice Parker should probably be willing to spend the money for appropriate ammo. I'm only trying to determine if I'm using appropriate ammo because it's relatively inexpensive and available.

[George M. Purtill]

defininitely NOT busting your chops. this is a very expensive hobby but worth every penny.
i reload and I buy RST shells- go figure.

[Bill Murphy]

George P., you have brought up a great point. Parkers have been the reason I don't drink in bars, don't fool around with women I'm not married to, don't pay interest on credit cards, don't buy a new car every four years, do my own home maintenance, what little there is, and utilize several other methods of saving a buck here and there. I equate trips to fast food joints as money wasted that could have been put into the "Parker Fund". My only financial vise, other than gun purchases, is wine and scotch whisky, very minor outlays compared to loose women and bar drinking.

[Eric Grims]

Winchester AA, green dot, win 209, clay buster 1 oz. wad all for 7200 psi. From the allant web site.
Really works well on all clay games

[Chris Travinski]

Thanks George, the enjoyment I get from all aspects of this hobby are priceless. I'll pick up a few cases of RST and give them a try.

[Dave Suponski]

Chris, You should give some serious thought to reloading. Mec machines can be had for short money in 12 gauge. There really are some great advantages to cooking up your own loads not to mention the cost savings.

[George M. Purtill]

Thanks George, the enjoyment I get from all aspects of this hobby are priceless. I'll pick up a few cases of RST and give them a try.

Chris

I want to make my self clear as i think like a lawyer but type like a moron:

I reload a lot, so much so that My left wrist is killing me from sliding the bar on my old Mecs.
that being said, I have gotten to the dark parts of my gun safe and gotten out the composite steel Parkers and even joined the Vintagers. so i needed short shells and went right away to RST. Very very very nice folks to deal with. HOWEVER, pricey for this old swamp Yankee. I will save my hulls and start reloading shortys as soon as i can.
BUT, I also buy 12 guage shells at Cabelas on sale because if you do the math, you cannot reload 12 guage as cheap as you can buy them (I was a CPA before I went to law school so I know how to use a 10 key). I like my personal loads better for Trap but I will shoot any damn shell in skeet.
Consequently, I have more different kinds of ammo in my SUV than you can shake a stick at. I get nervous parking near our Federal building in Hartford.

My motto: don't outlive your ammunition supply.

[Bruce Day]

Xxxxxxxxx

[George M. Purtill]

George , why don't you just follow the Parker service load tables in TPS? That's why they are published there. I've reproduced them serveral time here and regularly show them to others at our Parker exhibitions. They are appropriate for both fluid and damascus steel barrels.
Also and imho if an STS 1 oz or 1 1/8 oz load at 1150 fps is too much pressure for your gun then you shouldn't be shooting the gun. I am not aware of any 12 ga Parker that was not designed to shoot such a load.
As always reference to the Parker tables is best and preferable to opinions of others. Go to the source.

Bruce
What in tarnation are you talking about? I didn't say the STS loads are too much for any gun i own. Where is that in my post? I went to STS specifically for the short hulls. Please explain what you are thinking in critiquing my post.

[Mark Ouellette]

Oh no!!! Two lawyers in "discusssion"! :)

[Bruce Day]

Sorry I must be stupid. I meant Chris, not George. I deleted the post and will avoid responses to people I don't know in the future.

[Bill Murphy]

John D., your new anti-delete program finally paid for itself. It worked on the fellow it was intended to work for, Checkbook Bruce. He got caught in his own trap. :rotf::rotf: OOPS, Bruce has succeeded in deleting his post, and as always, confusing the sense of the thread. Congratulations again, Bruce. Your affair with some of the other checkwriters is confusing to the rest of us. What is the attraction? Of course, you are always welcome at the Murphy house, in case I am missing something.

[Leighton Stallones]

I think the 1 1/8 is too much recoil for the gun and the shooter. I use both 7/8 and 1 oz at 1150-1180 and they break targets just as well as the heavier loads.
Most everyone that I know now use 1 oz as they pattern better and are as/or more effective than the 1 1/8.

[Bill Murphy]

LS, you are so right. There are now two companies making 3/4 ounce wads for 12 gauge shells. When I get low on my Federal SO wads which are the wads to use for 7/8 and 1 ounce loads, I will buy a case of the 3/4 ounce wads. If you don't shoot for money, and/or shoot very tight choked guns, 3/4 ounce loads are more than enough.

[Bruce Day]

Chris called and we discussed what Parker stated and where the references are. Again I apologize to Mr Purtil for mistakingly directing my response to him instead of Chris. It won't happen again.

And with Mr Murphy, again I have no idea what he is talking about with some kind of a fictional "no delete" program. As for the name he calls me "Checkbook Bruce", if he is implying that I have paid fair market value for most of my Parkers, with the exception of two that I was given, yes that's what I have done. I've not taken advantage of anybody and I am fortunate to have friends who have offered me guns at reasonable values as I have done in turn to others. I don't see what's wrong with that, but I am looking at the world through my eyes. Out of all the Parkers I have acquired, only one has been on the open market. All others have come through friends and word of mouth. I doubt there are more than a few close friends who know what I have paid for any gun, and I sincerely doubt they have talked. I realize that some people get some sort of self verification or build themselves up in status if they can get something of value for almost nothing , to take advantage of somebody else, somebody who is foolish, or uneducated, or a widow soon after the death of her husband, or somebody down on their luck and desperate for cash. If by the nickname given me "Checkbook Bruce" it means that I don't do that, well I suppose I'll answer to that. Yes, I have a checkbook and have used it in the past to acquire a few nice guns at fair value.

[John Dallas]

"if you do the math, you cannot reload 12 guage as cheap as you can buy them"
My MBA thinks differently than your CPA. I'm loading for about $4.10, and can't find shells (even at Wally World) for less that about $6 out the door (and my reloads are better quality than promo loads).

[Dave Suponski]

I agree John. I'm right about $4.00 a box for 12 gauge and as the gauge get's smaller the savings goes up. Right now my 28 gauge reloads are cheaper than 12's.

[David Holes]

You are right about the quality of reloads vs. promo loads.

[Michael Murphy]

I've been using B&P 1.0 oz. loads at 1,160 fps in my newer guns (both Side x Side and O/U and find them to be pussycat loads. In my older guns its RST all the way. I especially like there 2 1/2 " 12 ga. MaxiLite at 1,125fps. Just shot a round of 100 sporting Clays with them in a 1882 Rigby Hammer gun. No problems at all and didn't see any difference in breaks from that which I get with the B&P shells. Of course the Rigby was chocked Full & Fuller.

[Jeff Christie]

Bruce- Your are both 1/ an officer and 2/ a gentleman. There is nothing wrong with being fair and honest. This is not a game for 'Cheap Charlies'. I agree with your philosophy. Jeff

[Daryl Corona]

Murph,
I use Fed SO wads in a great 3/4oz. load in either AA or Rem. hull. Low pressure and virtually no recoil. Check out the Hodgdon website for the details.

[Ed Blake]

I have been using the 3/4 oz loads in my 12s and they seem to break clays nicely. I need to make some up for a 20.

[Ed Mobraaten]

I have a Parker that was made in 1902 (thanks to this site for helping me figure that out!). Hammerless, G grade, Damascus steel barrels. It's been in my family forever and I'm interested in shooting it. I just took it to a gun shop today and they told me to never shoot it as it was designed for black powder and that the way the Damascus barrels were made (spun?) made them risky? Is this right? Is there some modern load I can get easily to shoot sporting clays safely? Very intersted in shooting the gun that my grandfather and uncles have used so much.

[edgarspencer]

Ed, There are two possible scenarios from which your gun shop drew their conclusion as the likely catastrophic result of shooting your gun.
They are A) that they saw some defect which would cause a failure, if shot with any load, black, smokeless or otherwise.
and B) they flounder in the ignorance that so many do, under the mistaken impression that twist or damuscus barrels are inherently unsafe with anything but black powder. I suggest you solicit the names of 'real' gunsmiths, and given that they determine that your gun is mechanically sound, buy a few boxes of RST Paper Light shells. These shells, loaded with a modern smokeless powder will not tax the barrels, stock, or your shoulder.

[Bruce Day]

Here's what Parker was using in 1910 for fluid steel and composite barrels. The distance of measurement ( 100 ft ) and speed equates to about a 1200 fps muzzle velocity.

[Ed Mobraaten]

Thanks so much for the comments so far. I suspect that these guys may not be the most informed. No mention of flaws, just a suspicion of Damascus steel. I'm going to try to find someone a bit more in tune with older guns. And, the list of ammo used in the past looks really helpful. Thank you! Will post what I find as I go.

[Bruce Day]

A person need look no further than ammunition catalogs from RST, Remington, Winchester and Federal to find suitable loads. Or load your own for even lighter.
I'll be shooting a 1905 Bernard damascus gun on registered sporting clays targets tomorrow using Rem STS 1 oz loads. I'm trying to make a good showing at the state meet this year, we'll see.

[David Holes]

Bruce, I see that sheet shows 2 loads not recommended by Parker. I like 1 oz. loads in a 16. Do you think it is 2 much for a 16 ga. Dave

[Bruce Day]

That table is from the 1910 Parker Small Bore brochure. While I don't know when ammunition companies started loading 1 oz 16ga loads ( Dave Noreen would know) I am aware that at least by 1920, Parker was patterning 16ga guns with 1 oz loads. The hang tags provide verification. Sometime between 1910 and 1920, they moved from 7/8 to 1 oz. I have not seen any difference in barrel measurements to accompany the change, but then I haven't seen all the Parkers.

As for me personally, I reload 16's with 7/8oz because I like the lighter loads but I use 1 oz on the pheasant and prairie grouse we have out here. I have even shot the 1 1/8 oz loads from my P fluid steel that I have shot for over 40 years ( still tight) but I know that load is on the marginal high side and whacks me and the gun hard, but hey, sometimes I feel like I need to throw lead. Everyone has their personal views. The 1910 brochure 16 load was a 7/8 2 3/4dre whereas the modern Fed load , for example, is a 1 , 2 1/2 . I probably think too much about these matters. A good buddy with a lot of fine guns just buys cases of promo loads from Wal Mart.

Dave, just keep in mind the service load pressures from p.515, TPS.

Here's what is left from a 196, ??? patterning tag, showing a 1 oz 2 1/2 dram load being used by Parker. That's the same load made today by Fed, Win, Rem and RST. I've seen , but do have have, the same load tag for a G dam 16.

[Bruce Day]

meant to say " do not have [the G tag]"

[charlie cleveland]

way i look at it youve got 2 questions here... 1 are we shooting clays or trap with the parker... 2 nd are we hunting.... answer to first question we fire lots of shell at man made targets... lots of shells equal a blued shoulder and pain plus heavy pounding on equipment the gun...thats is if we are shooting heavier loads...now if we shoot lite loads that break the targets as well as heavy loads and dont bruise uor shoulders or dont be to rough on our guns then the natural choice is the liter loaded shells plus lite loads are chearer than heavy loads.... now for hunting loads..when a fellow goes into the field he wants shells that will hit and kill game as far as that gun can...yo take duck hunting or pheasant hunting i want a heavy load that will bring the game down...lite loads will kill birds but they got to be close and then your gonna get lots of cripples...you will have cripples with heavy loads but not near as many as with lite loads...when hunting its rare to have a lot of volume shooting... a fellow that shoots clays a lot in one year will shoot more in one year than a person who hunts game will shoot in a life time this is for the average hunter... this is my personal opinon i like lite loads for targets and heavy loads for game and fowl there is one exception that is dove hunting...the average fellow that hunts doves will shoot a hundred rounds of shells in the morning to get his limit of 15 birds and then go out and shoot close to that many in the evening to get the limit...now some of you are gonna smile or laugh at my figures here but this is the i base my figures on...ive been watching dove hunting all my life some will get a dove almost every shot fired but on a whole a hunter will average 3 to 5 doves for every box of 25 shells shot...only reason i dont use hihg brass shells on doves is cause it gives me a head ache and a bad sore shoulder from shooting so much..... charlie

[Les Van Drie]

Keman and Rio also make 7/8 oz 12 ga loads.